Hotel Cecil Rooftop Access Discussion

[Figuring]

Excellent point!

If the dead bolt is locked ( on the push bar using the key) it can be very stiff to open.

If the dead bolt is not latched it is much easier to open.

I made a video showing how the emergency door might work.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8l0-OwIC__o

found this so far..

Link to Ca.gov department of industrial relations/OSHA>>>https://www.dir.ca.gov/title8/3235.html wich links back>>> https://www.dir.ca.gov/default.html

Wow... So if someone wanted to take a body out that door, all they need to do is unscrew the cover and remove the 9 volt battery (if there is one). I ldon't think we need to think about the fire escapes anymore... I'd love to know if LE found a battery in there.

 

[Peter Brendt]

That was my initial response as well.

But I did a search of the name, and Trinka Porrata is more legit that I thought.

Including time with the LAPD.

Oh, she definitively is. And because she is so good at what she does, she used the conjunctive "could" to point out, it is a possibility. Then the media made it to "expert thinks" while in fact the expert pondered the possibility. And then, experts, even the good ones can be wrong on occasion too. All only humans and humans sometimes can become victims of incomplete perception. Remember the Jessica Ridgway case. A lot of very good profilers (as example for another kind of expert) was on it, and all (including my own profile) were wrong because the idea of a teenager training himself as SK was out of the perception. Just that. Funny thing, almost every profiler was right about the rest, even Pat Brown, and she has really no lucks streak over the last two or three years.

 

[Sillybilly]

...Previously there were photos of them outside the hotel looking hapless and as if they were waiting.....to be photographed and interviewed ...

Or couldn't wait to get home to recently befriend someone with the surname Ramirez from LA on both their FB accounts? :waitasec:

ETA: In fairness, he may have befriended them?

 

[jennydreadful]

Or couldn't wait to get home to recently befriend someone with the surname Ramirez from LA on both their FB accounts? :waitasec:

ETA: In fairness, he may have befriended them?

I thought that couple seemed pretty horrid, but Ramirez isn't exactly an uncommon surname in Los Angeles/southern California. So they may have just befriended the person while they were here and exchanged account info.

But I didn't see the account-if it looks like a serial killer fan's account, I'd agree with you. i wouldn't be surprised if they got a lot a friend requests from thrill-seekers, Ramirez fans or no. Bad taste to accept them, but it wouldn't surprise me....

 

[Sillybilly]

I thought that couple seemed pretty horrid, but Ramirez isn't exactly an uncommon surname in Los Angeles/southern California. So they may have just befriended the person while they were here and exchanged account info.

But I didn't see the account-if it looks like a serial killer fan's account, I'd agree with you. i wouldn't be surprised if they got a lot a friend requests from thrill-seekers, Ramirez fans or no. Bad taste to accept them, but it wouldn't surprise me....

No, nothing that smacked of an SK groupie, jennyd .. I agree, probably just in bad taste. LOL, if i'd been through that experience, I wouldn't befriend anyone unless their surname was Smith (and even then i'd be wondering if i could trust them).

OT, in my snooping around, was surprised to see that some gal actually married Richard Ramirez while he is in prison. Go figger, eh?

 

[Conductor71]

Wow... So if someone wanted to take a body out that door, all they need to do is unscrew the cover and remove the 9 volt battery (if there is one). I ldon't think we need to think about the fire escapes anymore... I'd love to know if LE found a battery in there.

I am not convinced that is the only easy access. I just read this in another thread and it hit home.

I'm asking whether the roof would be contaminated with the scent of chlorine. What's common sense tell you? Do you think they carry it up from the basement, or do you think there's a storage place up on the roof, near to the place where they'd use it? And they do use it.

Common sense tells me there has to be a freight elevator somewhere we do not know about. I find it hard to believe that a 15 story building with such a long history could not have one. I have lived in my share of tall, rehabbed buildings older than the Cecil and every one had a freight elevator.

When the Cecil opened in 1924 it was a luxury hotel. They would not have expected guests to rub shoulders with maintenance. Even now in a regular old Holiday Inn...how often do you share an elevator with house keeping? Would they lug things like industrial size chlorine containers up to the roof by taking over one of the guest elevators. If they wanted to install a central air unit on the roof, they would be tying up a guest elevator. It is even legal for a building with 613 rooms, especially a residential building, to not have a freight or service elevator?

 

[noodled1]

I am not convinced that is the only easy access. I just read this in another thread and it hit home.



Common sense tells me there has to be a freight elevator somewhere we do not know about. I find it hard to believe that a 15 story building with such a long history could not have one. I have lived in my share of tall, rehabbed buildings older than the Cecil and every one had a freight elevator.

When the Cecil opened in 1924 it was a luxury hotel. They would not have expected guests to rub shoulders with maintenance. Even now in a regular old Holiday Inn...how often do you share an elevator with house keeping? Would they lug things like industrial size chlorine containers up to the roof by taking over one of the guest elevators. If they wanted to install a central air unit on the roof, they would be tying up a guest elevator. It is even legal for a building with 613 rooms, especially a residential building, to not have a freight or service elevator?

I've looked at this every ways sideways I can and I don't believe there's a freight elevator. If you look at the layout of the building, the floor plan and match it up with the videos it doesn't play out

Here's why, see if this makes sense, stick with me...lol

First there's only one elevator shack on the roof, if there was another elevator it would have to be next to the other two elevators and sharing that same mechanical room.

Secondly, when you look at pics/videos of the lobby and hallways and floor plan we have there's only two elevators there
and lastly if you look at the north side of the building you'll see windows that overlap the elevator shack from the bottom to the top, when you assign the blank area on the wall that's sans of windows to being where the elevators are located you come to realize there's just no place to stick a third elevator.

Go check it out look at all the info and see if you agree

 

[dotr]

Wonder if the Cecil has a " dumb waiter" tucked away somewhere?
BBM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dumbwaiter_(elevator)
"A simple dumbwaiter is a movable frame in a shaft, dropped by a rope on a pulley, guided by rails; most dumbwaiters have a shaft, cart, and capacity smaller than those of passenger elevators, usually 45 to 450 kg (100 to 1000 lbs.)[2] Before electric motors were added in the 1920s, dumbwaiters were controlled manually by ropes on pulleys.[1]

Early 20th-century codes sometimes required fireproof dumbwaiter walls and self-closing fireproof doors and mention features such as buttons to control movement between floors and locks on doors preventing them from opening unless the cart is stopped at that floor.[7]

A legal complaint about a Manhattan restaurant's dumbwaiter in 1915, which also mentions that food orders are shouted up and down the shaft, describes its operation and limitations as follows:


[There is] ... great play between the cart of the dumb-waiter and the guides on which it runs, with the result that the running of the cart is accompanied by a loud noise. The rope which operates the cart of the dumb-waiter runs in a wheel with a very shallow groove, so that the rope is liable to and does at times slip off. ... The cart has no shock absorbers at the top, so that when it strikes the top of the shaft or wheel there is a loud report. ... [T]he ropes of the dumb-waiter strike such wall at frequent intervals with a loud report. ... [T]he dumb-waiter is often negligently operated, by running it faster than necessary, and by letting it go down with a sudden fall"

 

[Conductor71]

Wonder if the Cecil has a " dumb waiter" tucked away somewhere?
BBM
[B]Early 20th-century codes somet...liance means you sleep on the first floor. ;)

 

[paint]

just because the fire door was alarmed doesn't mean somebody didn't go through it. they could have dropped the body somewhere up there hidden and left before security arrived, then gone back later to dispose of it.

 

[OCSlacker]

I am not convinced that is the only easy access. I just read this in another thread and it hit home.



Common sense tells me there has to be a freight elevator somewhere we do not know about. I find it hard to believe that a 15 story building with such a long history could not have one. I have lived in my share of tall, rehabbed buildings older than the Cecil and every one had a freight elevator.

When the Cecil opened in 1924 it was a luxury hotel. They would not have expected guests to rub shoulders with maintenance. Even now in a regular old Holiday Inn...how often do you share an elevator with house keeping? Would they lug things like industrial size chlorine containers up to the roof by taking over one of the guest elevators. If they wanted to install a central air unit on the roof, they would be tying up a guest elevator. It is even legal for a building with 613 rooms, especially a residential building, to not have a freight or service elevator?

Doubtful that they have a service elevator. Below are some of the reviews for the Cecil

"There always seems to be some sort of maid or handy man in the small, poorly painted elevators and that made me uneasy. Are there no service elevators. These people always seemed unhappy like they hated life."

http://virtualtourist.tripadvisor.c...-Los_Angeles_California.html#CHECK_RATES_CONT



"My Uniquely bad experience..." from Hotels.com

"I went to the elevator to surprisingly find the same couple still waiting for the elevator! We waited together for a few minutes when one of the elevators arrived, only to be occupied by a couple of members of the hotel maintenance staff, with their cart, and there was no room to fit us"

 

[noodled1]

just because the fire door was alarmed doesn't mean somebody didn't go through it. they could have dropped the body somewhere up there hidden and left before security arrived, then gone back later to dispose of it.

I keep going back to the beer bottles and graffiti on the roof and come to think that that door's alarm is either not working or useless at best.

 

[Conductor71]

I thought that couple seemed pretty horrid, but Ramirez isn't exactly an uncommon surname in Los Angeles/southern California. So they may have just befriended the person while they were here and exchanged account info.

But I didn't see the account-if it looks like a serial killer fan's account, I'd agree with you. i wouldn't be surprised if they got a lot a friend requests from thrill-seekers, Ramirez fans or no. Bad taste to accept them, but it wouldn't surprise me....

Update on the couple as there is nothing else to report:

Thomas Cook pays £2,000 to British hotel couple told there was a decomposed body in their water tank

They are mulling over the offer. Apparently 500 GBP on top of a full travel cost refund is not enough for the trauma.

 

[jetsetsam]

pics from the chinese forums on the fire escape ladders to the roof.

 

[Sillybilly]

Pics ^^ show the attic area is quite a good size, and the vent looks like it is set into an old, blocked up window recess. Presumably the rooftop hatches (not the tank hatches) would go down into what appears to be a very large space.

 

[Chorley8]

On a Huffington blog someone emphasizes they think the loss of her phone is a key element. Idea interests me.

But I don't use a cell of any kind let alone a blackberry. Does anyone have ideas of how having Elisa's phone would help someone stalking her? Because I would think that it would be better for her to HAVE the phone if someone wanted to trace her, keep track of her. It is interesting it is not her phone - so who gave it to her?

Also could the theft of the phone help to isolate her?

Interesting that she went to both Toronto Reference Library and Vancouver Reference Library.

Since this is the rooftop thread: will just say that I think almost everything that has been surmised is possible e.g. the door or her willingly or unwillingly being lead to the roof except 1. taking her up the ladder from the fire escapes dead not possible IMO 2. that she went willingly into the water tank - just personally I cannot fathom the amount of discussion on this and not just on WS - I mean LE and media gave this the push and we have willingly followed. Death by watertank is necessary for some reason I can't figure out. Though just to say that the unseemly media coverage with reporters giggling about how disgusting it must have been to in effect "drink" Elisa and also what I take to be the two fake British tourists interviewed outside emphasizing how they more or less ritually (since who would not move out?) drank and bathed in "her" (not that I believe they did this but it is the story) is designed to play on all of our deep-seated phobias around cannibalism and phobias around contamination from a corpse. Now on university campuses across N. America there are campaigns to ban bottled water. There was a huge Dow plan in Azerbaijian for a water filtration plant announced almost to the day and one of the tourists is supposedly from Azerbaijian not again that I believe that.

Before we ridicule theories like this which I have not originated in any case you have to realize the billions at play in the water industry. California and U.S. to be water deprived throughout 21st century. Canada where Elisa is from an obvious source of water. Azerbaijian important of course for oil and natural gas again a big story early February the pipeline to Turkey.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-...-make-lake-water-drinkable-in-azerbaijan.html

http://www.worldtribune.com/2013/02/11/turkey-azerbaijan-reach-agreement-on-natural-gas-pipeline/

Still I don't claim to understand the purposes of the manipulation by the theme is PURITY/POLLUTION and water. I will be perfectly honest after reading this story I felt the water in my apt. tasted "strange" - the taboos are powerful.

 

[Sillybilly]

But I don't use a cell of any kind let alone a blackberry. Does anyone have ideas of how having Elisa's phone would help someone stalking her? Because I would think that it would be better for her to HAVE the phone if someone wanted to trace her, keep track of her. It is interesting it is not her phone - so who gave it to her?

Also could the theft of the phone help to isolate her? ...

I mean LE and media gave this the push and we have willingly followed. Death by watertank is necessary for some reason I can't figure out.

Yes, it is possible to have a location tracker on the phone. It is also possible to have a listening device installed.

WADR Chorley, your comments about "death by watertank" ... she WAS found in a watertank. If you mean accident theory vs homicide theory, then consider this ... if a person is found dead of a gunshot wound to the head and police say we can't determine right now if it was accident, homicide or suicide, would we suspect LE of trying to manipulate public perception toward any one of the three?

If LE had come out and said "whew, sure looks like a homicide", then all the people considering the accident/suicide theories would take issue with that. IMO, LE has been professional in not giving indications either way. Very early in this case, they addressed that foul play could be involved. They have indicated it could be a strange accident, they have indicated the autopsy is inconclusive (it does happen !!) and that they are awaiting results of toxicology ... all of that is within the norm. They certainly immediately put to rest the falsehood that "foul play" had been ruled out. Sometimes LE is just "damned if they do and damned if they don't".

LAPD seemingly placed enough importance on Elisa's disappearance to do a search of the hotel and go public with the video. (Whether this was due to pressure or involvement from RCMP or Interpol may never be known.) They truly had no idea where she was, so i'm not sure why you think that mentioning foul play or accident in any way indicates there is a certain conclusion they would like the public to accept.

MOO

 

[Conductor71]

On a Huffington blog someone emphasizes they think the loss of her phone is a key element. Idea interests me.

But I don't use a cell of any kind let alone a blackberry. Does anyone have ideas of how having Elisa's phone would help someone stalking her? Because I would think that it would be better for her to HAVE the phone if someone wanted to trace her, keep track of her. It is interesting it is not her phone - so who gave it to her?

Also could the theft of the phone help to isolate her?

I have wondered about that too. I think the LAPD has been giving us clues that we haven't picked up on. For example, most have focused on hotel employees, but she took the train between San Diego and LA. Maybe it was someone she met on the train. I have just sensed that she was targeted and watched before she checked into the Cecil.

LE mentioned the cell phone once that I have seen during the press conference on Feb 6th:

During the press conference, Teague was asked about Lam's cell phone.

"I don't want to talk about the cell phone, right now, very much, we have some of her property and she was in regular contact with her parents until 6 days ago," said Teague.
source: http://www.examiner.com/article/elisa-lam-canadian-tourist-missing-los-angeles

What does that mean?

I also read that she lost her cellphone and was borrowing the blackberry but cannot remember source. maybe her tumblr? I will try to find my source. Here it is!

http://nouvelle-nouveau.tumblr.com/post/41596157293/more-the-speakeasy-was-awesome-except-i-lost

Anyways, yes there are ways to track someone via cell phone, but it would require the other person consent. Yet, there is another way... if you can get the cell phone by "stealing it" temporarily, installing app/setting it to track, and then re-planting the phone so she thinks she just misplaced it. This seems a stretch but we never know....

info from android forum here: http://androidcommunity.com/forums/f12/tracking-someone-by-using-their-cell-phone-number-22327/

 

[Doruk]

On a Huffington blog someone emphasizes they think the loss of her phone is a key element. Idea interests me.

But I don't use a cell of any kind let alone a blackberry. Does anyone have ideas of how having Elisa's phone would help someone stalking her? Because I would think that it would be better for her to HAVE the phone if someone wanted to trace her, keep track of her. It is interesting it is not her phone - so who gave it to her?

Also could the theft of the phone help to isolate her?

Interesting that she went to both Toronto Reference Library and Vancouver Reference Library.

Since this is the rooftop thread: will just say that I think almost everything that has been surmised is possible e.g. the door or her willingly or unwillingly being lead to the roof except 1. taking her up the ladder from the fire escapes dead not possible IMO 2. that she went willingly into the water tank - just personally I cannot fathom the amount of discussion on this and not just on WS - I mean LE and media gave this the push and we have willingly followed. Death by watertank is necessary for some reason I can't figure out. Though just to say that the unseemly media coverage with reporters giggling about how disgusting it must have been to in effect "drink" Elisa and also what I take to be the two fake British tourists interviewed outside emphasizing how they more or less ritually (since who would not move out?) drank and bathed in "her" (not that I believe they did this but it is the story) is designed to play on all of our deep-seated phobias around cannibalism and phobias around contamination from a corpse. Now on university campuses across N. America there are campaigns to ban bottled water. There was a huge Dow plan in Azerbaijian for a water filtration plant announced almost to the day and one of the tourists is supposedly from Azerbaijian not again that I believe that.

Before we ridicule theories like this which I have not originated in any case you have to realize the billions at play in the water industry. California and U.S. to be water deprived throughout 21st century. Canada where Elisa is from an obvious source of water. Azerbaijian important of course for oil and natural gas again a big story early February the pipeline to Turkey.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-...-make-lake-water-drinkable-in-azerbaijan.html

http://www.worldtribune.com/2013/02/11/turkey-azerbaijan-reach-agreement-on-natural-gas-pipeline/

Still I don't claim to understand the purposes of the manipulation by the theme is PURITY/POLLUTION and water. I will be perfectly honest after reading this story I felt the water in my apt. tasted "strange" - the taboos are powerful.

Do you doubt the reports that EL was found dead inside a water tank?

 

[Sillybilly]

Anyways, yes there are ways to track someone via cell phone, but it would require the other person consent. Yet, there is another way... if you can get the cell phone by "stealing it" temporarily, installing app/setting it to track, and then re-planting the phone so she thinks she just misplaced it. This seems a stretch but we never know....

info from android forum here: http://androidcommunity.com/forums/f12/tracking-someone-by-using-their-cell-phone-number-22327/

<rsbm>

If it was a borrowed phone, she would have no way of knowing what was on it.

So, along those lines, who lent her the phone?