How much does Jeremy know?

[Whisperer]

Does Jeremy know about the boys saying they heard something. DB tells us they did...WTH? She didn't choose to follow up with the boys about what they heard??? If anyone thinks this is, at all normal, they may need to visit a logic zone for a check-up. A parent doesn't question the people in the house that heard strange noises about the time the baby is kidnapped??? Are you serious Deb Bradley? Her words are at the very beginning of the tape.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VkzXLidSpSM&feature=related"]Lisa Irwin: Prime News 10/18/11 - YouTube[/ame]

This statement alone should indict her....IMO. What sincere parent wanting to know what happened to their baby wouldn't ask the other children in the home if they saw or heard something? Goodness, how many things have to be listed to convince some that she knows what happened? She doesn't talk to LE, she doesn't let her kids talk. LE has to get subpoena...it takes a month and the kids are put under extreme conditions by defense attorneys conditions; but all freshness in their mind has long gone anyway. The mother fails a poly and a cadaver dog hits. Jeremy is beside her and apparently doesn't show a sign of being angry with her. How odd! Everything in this case points to a homicide occurring inside the Lister house.

 

[DIRK SCHILLER]

I do think she did get drunk, and baby Lisa was feeling sick, maybe she was crying all the time, so the other kids could not easily fall asleep, so D. decided to sufoccate her with her pillow(thats why it was not blood found), but I do not know that much about the details because I´ven´t read everything about this case, but it might also has been like norest4thewicked said that Lisa drowned,because D. wanted to have her own party,she ´d have had enough time to get the little body out of the house, but I think she had help from J. or that neighbour she was drinking with, IMO

 

[Whisperer]

Why wouldn't jeremy ask his son what happened to Lisa? Why won't jeremy ask for a poly? Why won't jeremy march down to the station and talk to LE by himself?

Answer those questions and you might solve the case..

 

[Whisperer]

Lisa may have been disposed of earlier in the day or if Jeremy was involved, on his way to work. I see this task being done by DB and perhaps her brother.

What time did DB arrive on Lister from her wine-run. People talk about her buying baby items but in the video, the woman headed straight to the liquor dept and had no other goods in her hands. Me thinks this was her priority.

Jeremy may have been happy about the overtime. This gives him an alibi and gets him out of the house during the critical times. He returns to do his part and call 911 and insist somebody came through the front window and stole his DD. DB, being the co-dependent she is, wanted no part of calling 911.

 

[Whisperer]

megan kelley has 2 full hours of interviews and only showed 6 minutes. You can see the editing in those 6 minutes. There were some great questions being asked/answered, then snipped. I would love to watch the other 116 min of the interview...and..as long as I am wishing for things I can never have, I will add the 911 tape by jeremy to my list.

 

[Whisperer]

I do think she did get drunk, and baby Lisa was feeling sick, maybe she was crying all the time, so the other kids could not easily fall asleep, so D. decided to sufoccate her with her pillow(thats why it was not blood found), but I do not know that much about the details because I´ven´t read everything about this case, but it might also has been like norest4thewicked said that Lisa drowned,because D. wanted to have her own party,she ´d have had enough time to get the little body out of the house, but I think she had help from J. or that neighbour she was drinking with, IMO

....yeah, I think you're correct. It was a soft kill..either drowning or suffocation.

 

[DIRK SCHILLER]

Why wouldn't jeremy ask his son what happened to Lisa? Why won't jeremy ask for a poly? Why won't jeremy march down to the station and talk to LE by himself?

Answer those questions and you might solve the case..

well, as I said she was drunk and (accidentaly) killed Lisa, so she was needing help, I drunk person can not think clearly and she had help from J. or brother,to dispose of the body

 

[Whisperer]

Knowing somebody who did this to their child is quite a shock. I worked with a shared an office with one. She was a psychologist. It happens folks. As hard as it is to conceive it, it happens to people you don't expect. Mothers killing infants is always a shock.

In this case, the mother had some mental issues. I wondered if post-partum was contributing to it but we will never know because she killed herself in jail when she was coming out of her depression. She drowned her baby, Amber, in the bathtub...and reported it as an abduction

I am pretty sure DB has a diagnosis. DB is manipulative and uses words that twists things. She's pretty quick on her feet. Dollars to donuts she takes anti-depressants and benzos...but prefers the benzos and may skip the other pills. Some people can't stand anti-depressants because some of them slow people down. That means she was/is being treated for Depression and Anxiety...

 

[Whisperer]

I wish I knew what kind of drunk DB is and if JI drinks I'd like to know what is like..

JI appears to have no concern about her drinking...odd! He knows she drinks. Did he see her come home with the box of wine? She says she cooked chicken dinner for at least six people but jeremy never mentions him sitting at the table eating...as he left @5:20. Was DB home by then?d

Maybe the baby and the phones were passed off to Phil. He may have disposed AFTER all the media died down. Was his house searched? What was his alibi that day/night? Maybe she was placed in a dumpster outside of town.

 

[Melon]

Why wouldn't jeremy ask his son what happened to Lisa? Why won't jeremy ask for a poly? Why won't jeremy march down to the station and talk to LE by himself?

Answer those questions and you might solve the case..

Puzzling, to say the least.

I can think of a few scenarios where in the interest of self preservation, DB would lie to JI and keep him in the dark to the true events of the night. If she laid hands on BL in some fashion and caused her death, I can see her keeping that all to herself. I could see her not wanting JI to be able to share any suspicions he has of or unknowingly provide LE any ammunition against her by interviewing seperately.

I suppose I can also see the same acts of self preservation if an accident occured that could have been remedied by DB seeking help and/or checking the kids more frequently. It's easy to assume that she never checked on the kids during the course of her porch time, if she didn't something may have occured that still puts the blame squarely on her shoulders. I have entertained the possiblitity of drowning, or one of the other kids giving her some kind of medication trying to be helpful. I have often wondered that if the crib was set as high as it has appeared in the photos (someone over at another site put together measurements based off the items in the crib in one of the pictures and determined that was an unacceptable height for the age of BL) and if BL was left in the crib, she could have tried to get herself out and strangled or asphyxiated. So many scenarios that could leave behind very few clues of what truly happened.

I said earlier in this thread my gut is that JI knows nothing. That said, there are spouses who stand by and allow awful things done to their kids and do nothing (another local case, Danial Rinehart is a prime example, the wife's reason for doing nothing is the one of the worst excuses I have ever heard) so you just never know.

 

[norest4thewicked]

Why wouldn't jeremy ask his son what happened to Lisa? Why won't jeremy ask for a poly? Why won't jeremy march down to the station and talk to LE by himself?

Answer those questions and you might solve the case..

I can answer those questions.....Jeremy was involved from the beginning. Jeremy is part of it. Watching the video again made me even firmer in my belief. Jeremy can't look at interviewers or cameras. Jeremy can't raise his eyes from the ground. Jeremy played a part in the disappearance of little Lisa.

 

[cityslick]

I've said in the past that I believe that Lisa drowned. I am not sure when, but it could have been as far back as Sunday night. I think that this is why the cadavar dogs hit in the bedroom because I think that both parents were there, so both felt responsible and were in it together. I think that she was taken from the bathtub to the floor next to the parents bed for attempted CPR. I don't think that a child could die from an overdose after reading up on how much it would take for a child to die from an overdose.

As whisperer said, I don't remember hearing when the boys heard the clicking sound, but it still could have happened Sunday night/Monday and the wrapping and clicking could have been Monday night if Jeremy came home earlier than the time he said he did, or if he took a break to come home and take care of business. Nothing has been proven to me that Jeremy worked for his entire shift without eating anything or smoking a cigarette.

I DO see DB sitting on the steps and drinking. I've seen it time and time again where parents have disposed of a child and go on as if nothing happened. After all, their lives are in jeopardy. If they are trying to get away with it, how else would they act? They have to give the Academy Award performance of their lives. And I have seen many do it. I don't see how DB would be any different.

That being said, I don't know of any other way that Lisa would have died, so I can't see DB coming into the house at 10:30 and finding her dead in her crib. I could possibly see DB shaking Lisa to death, but babies who have been shaken usually linger for hours or even days before they actually die from being shaken. Some think that Jeremy shook Lisa. This might be a possibility, but in any case, they would both be involved. That's my opinion anyway...:moo:

The only way that I think you can be so firm in your belief that BL died on Sunday is if you heard or know (from your 'sources') that LE learned from the boys (especially the older one) that they had not seen or heard BL for over 24 hours. Unless there is other information that you can share that leads you down that road.

 

[melissasmom]

I've said in the past that I believe that Lisa drowned. I am not sure when, but it could have been as far back as Sunday night. I think that this is why the cadavar dogs hit in the bedroom because I think that both parents were there, so both felt responsible and were in it together. I think that she was taken from the bathtub to the floor next to the parents bed for attempted CPR. I don't think that a child could die from an overdose after reading up on how much it would take for a child to die from an overdose.

As whisperer said, I don't remember hearing when the boys heard the clicking sound, but it still could have happened Sunday night/Monday and the wrapping and clicking could have been Monday night if Jeremy came home earlier than the time he said he did, or if he took a break to come home and take care of business. Nothing has been proven to me that Jeremy worked for his entire shift without eating anything or smoking a cigarette.

I DO see DB sitting on the steps and drinking. I've seen it time and time again where parents have disposed of a child and go on as if nothing happened. After all, their lives are in jeopardy. If they are trying to get away with it, how else would they act? They have to give the Academy Award performance of their lives. And I have seen many do it. I don't see how DB would be any different.

That being said, I don't know of any other way that Lisa would have died, so I can't see DB coming into the house at 10:30 and finding her dead in her crib. I could possibly see DB shaking Lisa to death, but babies who have been shaken usually linger for hours or even days before they actually die from being shaken. Some think that Jeremy shook Lisa. This might be a possibility, but in any case, they would both be involved. That's my opinion anyway...:moo:

What is your explanation as to where the phones fit into this theory?

 

[cityslick]

What is your explanation as to where the phones fit into this theory?

To add to that, what made them decide 'that night' to try to concoct a story about BL being abducted? What made DB wait until JI came home from work until LE was called? Who got rid of BL and what was the story they would have told others about BL whereabouts? (boys, PN, SB)

 

[redheadedgal]

What sincere parent wanting to know what happened to their baby wouldn't ask the other children in the home if they saw or heard something?

Goodness, how many things have to be listed to convince some that she knows what happened?

i had no idea this was the case (or had forgotten) -- that deb said she purposefully did not ask the boys about what they might've heard. there is no reason to NOT do this. thank you for illuminating this.

do we have full compilation already of the things that point to guilt? that might be interesting to see in it's totality.

Why wouldn't jeremy ask his son what happened to Lisa?

had a thought the other day... hypnosis. would it be beneficial for the boys and maybe deb to try to unlock anything they might have repressed that might be useful to give LE more tools to solve this crime. and since deb says she was "blacked out"/passed out, there might be some information hidden away in her subconscious about sounds she heard that night that could be gleaned from hypnosis.

if members in the house have knowledge they don't want to get out of course this is a moot point since they wouldn't consent to being hypnotized, but if they truly have no knowledge and this was an abduction, shouldn't the family want to use ANY TOOL available to find lisa?

(of course we already know the parents refuse to sit for separate interviews so... )

i did some research on using hypnosis to solve crimes... here are a few articles:

http://hypnos.co.uk/hypnomag/hypnosisnews/hypnosisphorensic.htm

http://www.mywesttexas.com/news/top_stories/article_c326eb66-0dc3-53be-ad34-b34332106c63.html

there are criticisms to using a method such as this and this third article highlights some of these issues:

http://voices.yahoo.com/forensic-hypnosis-using-hypnosis-solve-crimes-912593.html?cat=5

i'm confident there are ways to overcome many of these issues and some are mentioned in the above link.

and yes i realize there will be strong opinions about this unconventional method, but one would hope if people are innocent, they would do ANYTHING to find a missing child.

Knowing somebody who did this to their child is quite a shock. I worked with a shared an office with one. She was a psychologist. It happens folks. As hard as it is to conceive it, it happens to people you don't expect. Mothers killing infants is always a shock.

yes, it happens... and all too frequently

That said, there are spouses who stand by and allow awful things done to their kids and do nothing (another local case, Danial Rinehart is a prime example, the wife's reason for doing nothing is the one of the worst excuses I have ever heard) so you just never know.

i googled this case as i'd never heard of it... i have no words. it truly shows that both parents and grandparents will do absolutely heinous things to their children/grandchildren.

http://voices.yahoo.com/daniel-rinehart-harrisonville-mo-charged-2565243.html?cat=1

 

[cityslick]

Originally Posted by Whisperer View Post
What sincere parent wanting to know what happened to their baby wouldn't ask the other children in the home if they saw or heard something?

i had no idea this was the case (or had forgotten) -- that deb said she purposefully did not ask the boys about what they might've heard. there is no reason to NOT do this. thank you for illuminating this.

Goodness, how many things have to be listed to convince some that she knows what happened?

Is there a link for this, that DB actually said she never asked the boys about what they heard? I've been looking for it and can't find it anywhere.

 

[lil momma]

The couple has refused to let investigators re-interview Baby Lisa’s 8- and 5-year-old half-brothers, who were in the house at the time of the child’s disappearance.
Video: Missing baby Lisa: What are police doing? (on this page)
“They said they heard noises, but I don’t know if that was before they went to sleep or after,’’ Bradley said about her two sons. “I have not sat down and talked to them about it, specifically to not have to put them through anything else.’’


http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/44927...baby-lisas-mom-i-was-drunk-when-she-vanished/

A little more than half way down the page, is the statement

 

[DeAnn]

Originally Posted by Whisperer View Post
What sincere parent wanting to know what happened to their baby wouldn't ask the other children in the home if they saw or heard something?

i had no idea this was the case (or had forgotten) -- that deb said she purposefully did not ask the boys about what they might've heard. there is no reason to NOT do this. thank you for illuminating this.

Goodness, how many things have to be listed to convince some that she knows what happened?

Is there a link for this, that DB actually said she never asked the boys about what they heard? I've been looking for it and can't find it anywhere.

It's a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. If she talks to them, she is seen as coaching and interfering with the investigation. She doesn't probe them she faces criticism for that.

This issue was discussed quite a bit here when Bill Stanton went on his public media tour.

http://www.kctv5.com/story/16012022/interviews-with-brothers

 

[redheadedgal]

i was just reading the manual for families with missing kids that hambirg posted in the "website for lisa" thread and want to clarify something... the manual does state leave the questioning of small children to LE... so in regard to my post above about deb not asking the boys about the sounds they heard herself, i realize this does contradict what LE would advise. as it's possible LE gave this advice to deb and jeremy in the immediate aftermath of calling 911, i take back my comment about this.

 

[lil momma]

i was just reading the manual for families with missing kids that hambirg posted in the "website for lisa" thread and want to clarify something... the manual does state leave the questioning of small children to LE... so in regard to my post above about deb not asking the boys about the sounds they heard herself, i realize this does contradict what LE would advise. as it's possible LE gave this advice to deb and jeremy in the immediate aftermath of calling 911, i take back my comment about this.

It is very possible that LE did advise them, however, i don't think that is the reasoning.... ALL JMO