How will Jaycee heal?

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i think it shows confusion if anything.

i wonder what he did or said to get her to back off of wanting to go home/be free.
if he knew where terry and shayna we're living its possible he used that against her, to tell her they were over her.

To me it clearly shows bonding. She isn't writing of how much she hates him for what he is accused of doing to her-kidnapping her as a child, keeping her in the backyard, impregnating her twice when she was still a minor. She couldn't do any of the things most normal teenagers could do-go to school, get a driver's license, date, go to college, etc, and she seemed to realize it based on her saying she wants to be free. So, why isn't she writing of how much she hates him? Instead, she writes to the effect that she would never want to cause him pain if it was in her power to prevent it. If that is not bonding I don't know what is.
I think she had a classic case of Stockholm syndrome.
 
In my opinion Stockholm syndrome applies more to adults than to children. And just saying she didn't want to hurt him doesn't really mean bonding as much as most people generally do not want to hurt others.

However, that being said I think the most amazing thing was the fact that in the journal she said she wanted to be able to claim her family, her two little girls, and the first thing she said when she saw her aunt was "I have babies" (at least that was what was published) She was finally free to say that. I also think that those girls saved her sanity.
 
If she had Stockholm syndrome she would have been defending him still. It is not just bonding with the captor, it is buying into the captors ideals. The victim identifies with the captor. That doesn't appear to be the case here.

If I were to guess, I would say that the people most likely to develop Stockholm syndrom would be A type personalities, whereas more submissive personalities, like Jaycee, would tend to go with the flow because they don't know how to change things or feel they can't. When those sorts of people (which is most people) find their situation has changed they simple go with the flow again in their new environment. For Jaycee it would be very easy to get back into sync with her original family. An A type personality would find it much more difficult.
 
We don't know how much Jaycee held back in her journal. She may have been careful what she wrote about P&NG just in case they ever found it and read it. So she may have been worried about the consequences of writing any harsh feeling that she had to have been feeling.

Since the case was so public, PG was able to learn a lot about JC's family life through the media. I wonder if he told her that Carl arranged for her to be taken since she wasn't his real daughter and I'm sure he also used her bio father wanting nothing to do with her to help sell his lies. When you torture and lie to an 11 year old who knows what she eventually let herself believe.

I support JC 100%, even if she really did bond with the G's. I don't think it's fair to judge her on what she felt during her captivity. Whatever feelings she had for PG probably saved her and her girls lives since PG could have killed them at any point and gotten away with it.
 
If she had Stockholm syndrome she would have been defending him still. It is not just bonding with the captor, it is buying into the captors ideals. The victim identifies with the captor. That doesn't appear to be the case here.

If I were to guess, I would say that the people most likely to develop Stockholm syndrom would be A type personalities, whereas more submissive personalities, like Jaycee, would tend to go with the flow because they don't know how to change things or feel they can't. When those sorts of people (which is most people) find their situation has changed they simple go with the flow again in their new environment. For Jaycee it would be very easy to get back into sync with her original family. An A type personality would find it much more difficult.

Weren't you the one arguing that Stockholm syndrome doesn't last long after she had been removed from the situation?
 
In my opinion Stockholm syndrome applies more to adults than to children. And just saying she didn't want to hurt him doesn't really mean bonding as much as most people generally do not want to hurt others.

However, that being said I think the most amazing thing was the fact that in the journal she said she wanted to be able to claim her family, her two little girls, and the first thing she said when she saw her aunt was "I have babies" (at least that was what was published) She was finally free to say that. I also think that those girls saved her sanity.

When someone is kidnapped as a child, impregnated twice and made to live in a backyard, don't you think HATE would be a reaction most of us expect? Not "I will not him if that's in my power." Again, if that doesn't show some sort of bonding, I don't know what is. Fortunately, from the information released, she appears to be doing well and wants nothing to do with Garrido.
 
Weren't you the one arguing that Stockholm syndrome doesn't last long after she had been removed from the situation?

Well, it doesn't usually because most people labeled as having it don't have it. I never thought she had Stockholm syndrome in the first place, other people here did and they can only think of behaviour in binary terms.
 
Well, it doesn't usually because most people labeled as having it don't have it. I never thought she had Stockholm syndrome in the first place, other people here did and they can only think of behaviour in binary terms.

Yea, I am sure you believe she just bonded with him without any syndrome whatsoever. Just your regular nuclear family, him, his wife, JC, and her two kids, they were.
:rolleyes:
 
When someone is kidnapped as a child, impregnated twice and made to live in a backyard, don't you think HATE would be a reaction most of us expect? Not "I will not him if that's in my power." Again, if that doesn't show some sort of bonding, I don't know what is. Fortunately, from the information released, she appears to be doing well and wants nothing to do with Garrido.

You are confusing bonding with Stockholm syndrome, they are not the same thing. While bonding is required for the syndrome, the syndrome is not an automatic consequence of bonding.

A comparison would be this: you get married - that would involve bonding. Your spouse believes in trolls living under bridges, so you come to believe in that too because you have bonded - that would be Stockholm syndrome. On the other hand maybe you just humour your spouse - then you would just have bonded, but no syndrome. At some later point your marriage breaks up, if you had the syndrome you would still believe in trolls under the bridge, but if you didn't have it you would allmost immediately dismiss your former spouse as nuts.
 
what kind of bonding was it? imaginary or forced? because you dont get over 'bonding' in 6 months. she may be scared to testify against him, but she wants nothing to do with him...
 
You are confusing bonding with Stockholm syndrome, they are not the same thing. While bonding is required for the syndrome, the syndrome is not an automatic consequence of bonding.

A comparison would be this: you get married - that would involve bonding. Your spouse believes in trolls living under bridges, so you come to believe in that too because you have bonded - that would be Stockholm syndrome. On the other hand maybe you just humour your spouse - then you would just have bonded, but no syndrome. At some later point your marriage breaks up, if you had the syndrome you would still believe in trolls under the bridge, but if you didn't have it you would allmost immediately dismiss your former spouse as nuts.

Hah? Is that your own definition?
"Every syndrome has symptoms or behaviors and Stockholm Syndrome is no exception. While a clear-cut list has not been established due to varying opinions by researchers and experts, several of these features will be present:

* Positive feelings by the victim toward the abuser/controller
* Negative feelings by the victim toward family, friends, or authorities trying to rescue/support them or win their release
* Support of the abuser's reasons and behaviors
* Positive feelings by the abuser toward the victim
* Supportive behaviors by the victim, at times helping the abuser
* Inability to engage in behaviors that may assist in their release or detachment"
http://www.mental-health-matters.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=167
Now let's see
JC-positive feelings by the victim toward the abuser/controller-check
Support of the abuser's reasons and behaviors -check
Positive feelings by the abuser toward the victim-check
Supportive behaviors by the victim, at times helping the abuser-check
Inability to engage in behaviors that may assist in their release or detachment-check
I would say she has classic case of the syndrome-everything fits.
By the way, believing in trolls living under the bridge isn't listed for some reason-imagine that.
 
what kind of bonding was it? imaginary or forced? because you dont get over 'bonding' in 6 months. she may be scared to testify against him, but she wants nothing to do with him...

Ermm....if you spend any extended time with someone, you form a relationship with them, that is human nature. There is no reason to believe that either Jaycee or PG is any different from the rest of the human race in that respect.
 
well i spent 18 years with my grandmother and i bonded more with the cat.
 
Now let's see
JC-positive feelings by the victim toward the abuser/controller-check Little evidence for this
Support of the abuser's reasons and behaviors -check No evidence for this at all
Positive feelings by the abuser toward the victim-check No evidence for this outside statements made after the arrest, which is to be expected at that point. In fact, in her journal excerpts Jaycee says that she thinks her mere presence pains him - that is the only evidence we have of his attitude towards her as she percieved it prior to the arrest
Supportive behaviors by the victim, at times helping the abuser-check No evidence for this - by suportive behaviours they don't mean helping out with the shop, they mean behaviours in support of the abusers illegal activities, such as what Nancy did in aiding in the kidnapping of Jaycee
Inability to engage in behaviors that may assist in their release or detachment-check There is another explanation for this, it is a psychological state called "learned helplessness", something that is clearly expressed in Jaycee's journal passages
I would say she has classic case of the syndrome-everything fits.
By the way, believing in trolls living under the bridge isn't listed for some reason-imagine that.

Bolded bits added as commentary.

It is not a classic case, if it were she would be supporting him now, which she clearly is not, and apparently has not since day one of her release.

The "trolls under the bridge" was a metaphor for something that a reasonable person would not normally believe in, it just served as an example to make the point that there is a distinction between being submissive and becoming a convert.
 
Bolded bits added as commentary.

It is not a classic case, if it were she would be supporting him now, which she clearly is not, and apparently has not since day one of her release.

The "trolls under the bridge" was a metaphor for something that a reasonable person would not normally believe in, it just served as an example to make the point that there is a distinction between being submissive and becoming a convert.

Victim taking on all of the irrational beliefs of the abuser is not listed as one of the symptoms, sorry.
Supporting the abuser for indefinite amount of time after-wards isn't listed either.
And never mind that her therapist apparently said to this day she isn't ready to confront Garrido.
As for your comments-you seriously think Garrido doesn't have positive feelings toward JC? After all he said about what "heartwarming" story that is? You seriously don't think she doesn't (or didn't) have positive feelings toward him? Why would she write she doesn't want to hurt him?
Supportive behaviors by the victim have to be of criminal/illegal nature? Says who? Certainly not the link I provided.
No indication she ever tried to escape, and even after Garrido brought her to visit his parole officer, she tried to come with some story of how she was an abused wife and Garrido was helping her.
 
At the parole department Jaycee was in full on mom protecting her kids mode. She was given a story to tell and most likely told that she would lose the girls, that the girls would be taken away. She was fighting for her girls not necessarily fighting or defending the Garridos. The girls may not have know she was their mother but she did and she was not about to lose them.

She spent 18 years with those awful people. Of course there is going to be some sort of bond or a person would go nuts. Children in abusive situations often cling to the abuser. Remember she was young, real young when taken, placed in isolation except for the abusers. People need people and they were the only people around. And remember she was in that back yard up until she was preggies. Then Phil and Nancy had all the hold on her they needed and started allowing her out of the yard. Just the threat of taking the child away would make her behave. They no longer have that lie over her head.
 
i think it shows confusion if anything.

i wonder what he did or said to get her to back off of wanting to go home/be free.
if he knew where terry and shayna we're living its possible he used that against her, to tell her they were over her.

I think it was physical threats toward her family, including the girls as well as Terry and Shayna.

If she had Stockholm syndrome she would have been defending him still. It is not just bonding with the captor, it is buying into the captors ideals. The victim identifies with the captor. That doesn't appear to be the case here.

If I were to guess, I would say that the people most likely to develop Stockholm syndrom would be A type personalities, whereas more submissive personalities, like Jaycee, would tend to go with the flow because they don't know how to change things or feel they can't. When those sorts of people (which is most people) find their situation has changed they simple go with the flow again in their new environment. For Jaycee it would be very easy to get back into sync with her original family. An A type personality would find it much more difficult.

I don't recall ever reading that type A personalities tend to fall into stockholm syndrome more readily. Can you please list the link where you found that information as I find your statement quite interesting.

Well, it doesn't usually because most people labeled as having it don't have it. I never thought she had Stockholm syndrome in the first place, other people here did and they can only think of behaviour in binary terms.

How do you know that most people labeled as having stockholm syndrome don't have it? Again, please list your sources as I find your statements interesting and would like to differentiate between facts and opinions you have on the subject. Bye the way, I also remember you being on the bandwagon that Jaycee could get over stockholm syndrome quickly, when removed from her captors.
 
Long but interesting: (sites MANY experts and refr.)
http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Stockholm+syndrome

Stockholm syndrome Also found in: Dictionary/thesaurus, Wikipedia 0.17 sec.

Definition

Stockholm syndrome refers to a group of psychological symptoms that occur in some persons in a captive or hostage situation. It has received considerable media publicity in recent years because it has been used to explain the behavior of such well-known kidnapping victims as Patty Hearst (1974) and Elizabeth Smart (2002). The term takes its name from a bank robbery in Stockholm, Sweden, in August 1973. The robber took four employees of the bank (three women and one man) into the vault with him and kept them hostage for 131 hours. After the employees were finally released, they appeared to have formed a paradoxical emotional bond with their captor; they told reporters that they saw the police as their enemy rather than the bank robber, and that they had positive feelings toward the criminal. The syndrome was first named by Nils Bejerot (1921–1988), a medical professor who specialized in addiction research and served as a psychiatric consultant to the Swedish police during the standoff at the bank. Stockholm syndrome is also known as Survival Identification Syndrome.

Description

Stockholm syndrome is considered a complex reaction to a frightening situation, and experts do not agree completely on all of its characteristic features or on the factors that make some people more susceptible than others to developing it. One reason for the disagreement is that it would be unethical to test theories about the syndrome by experimenting on human beings. The data for understanding the syndrome are derived from actual hostage situations since 1973 that differ considerably from one another in terms of location, number of people involved, and time frame. Another source of disagreement concerns the extent to which the syndrome can be used to explain other historical phenomena or more commonplace types of abusive relationships. Many researchers believe that Stockholm syndrome helps to explain certain behaviors of survivors of World War II concentration camps; members of religious cults; battered wives; incest survivors; and physically or emotionally abused children as well as persons taken hostage by criminals or terrorists.

Most experts, however, agree that Stockholm syndrome has three central characteristics:

The hostages have negative feelings about the police or other authorities.
The hostages have positive feelings toward their captor(s).
The captors develop positive feelings toward the hostages.

Causes & symptoms

Stockholm syndrome does not affect all hostages (or persons in comparable situations); in fact, a Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) study of over 1200 hostage-taking incidents found that 92% of the hostages did not develop Stockholm syndrome. FBI researchers then interviewed flight attendants who had been taken hostage during airplane hijackings, and concluded that three factors are necessary for the syndrome to develop:

The crisis situation lasts for several days or longer.
The hostage takers remain in contact with the hostages; that is, the hostages are not placed in a separate room.
The hostage takers show some kindness toward the hostages or at least refrain from harming them. Hostages abused by captors typically feel anger toward them and do not usually develop the syndrome.

In addition, people who often feel helpless in other stressful life situations or are willing to do anything in order to survive seem to be more susceptible to developing Stockholm syndrome if they are taken hostage.

People with Stockholm syndrome report the same symptoms as those diagnosed with posttraumatic stress disorder (PTSD): insomnia, nightmares, general irritability, difficulty concentrating, being easily startled, feelings of unreality or confusion, inability to enjoy previously pleasurable experiences, increased distrust of others, and flashbacks.

Diagnosis

Stockholm syndrome is a descriptive term for a pattern of coping with a traumatic situation rather than a diagnostic category. Most psychiatrists would use the diagnostic criteria for acute stress disorder or posttraumatic stress disorder when evaluating a person with Stockholm syndrome.

Treatment

Treatment of Stockholm syndrome is the same as for PTSD, most commonly a combination of medications for short-term sleep disturbances and psychotherapy for the longer-term symptoms.

Key terms

Coping — In psychology, a term that refers to a person's patterns of response to stress. Some patterns of coping may lower a person's risk of developing Stockholm syndrome in a hostage situation.

Flashback — The re-emergence of a traumatic memory as a vivid recollection of sounds, images, and sensations associated with the trauma. The person having the flashback typically feels as if they are reliving the event. Flashbacks were first described by doctors treating combat veterans of World War I (1914–1918).

Identification with an aggressor — In psychology, an unconscious process in which a person adopts the perspective or behavior patterns of a captor or abuser. Some researchers consider it a partial explanation of Stockholm syndrome.

Regression — In psychology, a return to earlier, usually childish or infantile, patterns of thought or behavior.

Syndrome — A set of symptoms that occur together.

Prognosis

The prognosis for recovery from Stockholm syndrome is generally good, but the length of treatment needed depends on several variables. These include the nature of the hostage situation; the length of time the crisis lasted, and the individual patient's general coping style and previous experience(s) of trauma.

Prevention

Prevention of Stockholm syndrome at the level of the larger society includes further development of crisis intervention skills on the part of law enforcement as well as strategies to prevent kidnapping or hostage-taking incidents in the first place. Prevention at the individual level is difficult as of the early 2000s because researchers have not been able to identify all the factors that may place some persons at greater risk than others; in addition, they disagree on the specific psychological mechanisms involved in Stockholm syndrome. Some regard the syndrome as a form of regression (return to childish patterns of thought or action) while others explain it in terms of emotional paralysis ("frozen fright") or identification with the aggressor.


Resources

Books

American Psychiatric Association. Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, 4th edition, text revision. Washington, DC: American Psychiatric Association, 2000.
Graham, Dee L. R., with Edna I. Rawlings and Roberta K. Rigsby. Loving to Survive, Chapter 1, "Love Thine Enemy: Hostages and Classic Stockholm Syndrome." New York and London: New York University Press, 1994.
Herman, Judith, MD. Trauma and Recovery, 2nd ed., revised. New York: Basic Books, 1997. Chapter 4, "Captivity," is particularly helpful in understanding Stockholm syndrome.

Periodicals

Bejerot, Nils. "The Six-Day War in Stockholm." New Scientist 61 (1974): 486-487.
Fuselier, G. Dwayne, PhD. "Placing the Stockholm Syndrome in Perspective." FBI Law Enforcement Bulletin (July 1999): 23-26.
Grady, Denise. "Experts Look to Stockholm Syndrome on Why Girl Stayed." International Herald Tribune, 17 March 2003. A newspaper article about the Elizabeth Smart kidnapping case.

Organizations

American Psychiatric Association. 1400 K Street, NW, Washington, DC 20005. www.psych.org.
Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI). J. Edgar Hoover Building, 935 Pennsylvania Avenue, NW, Washington, DC 20535-0001. (202) 324-3000. http://www.fbi.gov.

Other

Carver, Joseph M., PhD. Love and Stockholm Syndrome: The Mystery of Loving an Abuser. http://www.drjoecarver.com/stockholm.html.

Can I determine whether or not Jaycee had Stockholms? Of course not. But neither can anyone else on this board who does not have a psychistric degree or psychologist degree and has not worked with her.

Semantics/terminology are not as important as the effect that pg and ng had on Jaycees life for 18 years!! There has not been another case like this, with these exact circumstances, therefore it is unique and a good learning tool for those treating Jaycee and her daughters.

Did Jaycee bond with pg, of course. Is she still bonded? Not in my opinion (which doesn't mean crap). Are there still multiple issues involved? Of course. 18 years doesn't suddenly right itself in a matter of months.
 
If she had Stockholm syndrome she would have been defending him still. It is not just bonding with the captor, it is buying into the captors ideals. The victim identifies with the captor. That doesn't appear to be the case here.

If I were to guess, I would say that the people most likely to develop Stockholm syndrom would be A type personalities, whereas more submissive personalities, like Jaycee, would tend to go with the flow because they don't know how to change things or feel they can't. When those sorts of people (which is most people) find their situation has changed they simple go with the flow again in their new environment. For Jaycee it would be very easy to get back into sync with her original family. An A type personality would find it much more difficult.
Hmmm, good point, Patricia Hearst seemed to fit more what you are describing, as she was an active participant, holding a machine gun, robbing the bank.
 
Hmmm, good point, Patricia Hearst seemed to fit more what you are describing, as she was an active participant, holding a machine gun, robbing the bank.

As far as we know, Garrido wasn't robbing any banks, so JC couldn't have possibly participated in anything like that. On the other hand, Garrido had a printing business and she worked for him never even telling his clients who she were.
 

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