Huntington Contacted on Dec. 11/Will TH Ever Testify Again **Merged**

[TrY]

I don't think it's a big deal that T.H. was called on Dec. 11 2008 when Caylee's remains were found. The media was all over the story -- it was breaking news -- and I'm sure that the defense team knew that a body found a couple of blocks from the Anthony home was like Caylee. Everyone in the media suspected that the body was Caylee back then on Dec. 11, 2008. I think it was a smart thing for LKB to call up and get an entomologist on the defense team that day.

 

[LongtimeMedic]

Huntington was not able to speak specifically about the stain in the trunk of Casey’s car, since he did not examine it directly....so how are you referencing Huntington's testimony?

He was shown photos of "the stains" in photos entered as States Evidence.

 

[RANCH]

I'm not sure what the question "Will Dr Huntington ever testify in another trial" specifically means. Does it mean no one will hire him? Or does it mean he doesn't want to ever testify again? Since it appears that he will work for who ever will pay, whether their the defense or prosecution,and he's a qualified expert in he's field, why wouldn't he be hired? He just testifies the way his employers will want him to.He's simply a hired gun. I think he will get over the trauma of the cross exam by Jeff Aston after a while. I don't think he will quit. IMO.

 

[Ssejors]

I don't feel sorry for him one bit, and I don't think he was so innocent...during Cross, it was clear he was purposely being evasive or not answering truthfully when he knew it would help the state. I just watched the whole mess about the amount of days and temperature outside affecting decomposition, and it took JA about 15 minutes to get this guy to finally stop trying to run in circles and finally just agree that JA was right. He said way too many: "Based on that assumption", "I find it unlikely- even though that was never studied", "It's possible, given the assumption"...blah blah blah... I suffered second hand embarrassment for this guy.

Not to mention that ridiculous pig experiment where after that entire testimony he says if he had to do it again he would do the experiment in Florida (not Nebraska), In June (not September) and wrap the pig in a blanket, 2 garbage bags and a laundry bag (and not just keep it bare). WHAT THE HELL? SERIOUSLY? All that testimony just to end up saying that the experiment had NOTHING to do with the case at hand??

This pig experiment made it all obvious for me. Decomp is completely related to weather, air, water, temp and bugs. Knowing what I have read about Chloroform, I can't imagine that it's a chemical that ENCOURAGES insect activity.

If bugs increase decomp, and sealing the body in a blanket, 2 garbage bags and a canvas laundry bag decreases the potential for insect activity, then perhaps there wouldn't really have BEEN much mess to clean up. The laundry bag handles. She is bagged with TWO garbage bags. Obviously the person bagging her has a fear of making a mess. The laundry bag was the method of transportation, because you can't lift a 35 lb child in a garbage bag. You need a decent handle. So to me, she was probably killed in the garage. Or taken there right after. That's where the laundry bag and garbage bags were, and one would assume that is where a person would keep duct tape. So straight away she went into the Garbage bags. It's possible that she had enough forethought to bag her right away. Then 2 days later, the smell has permeated the car but there aren't as many insects as one would expect. and there really wouldnt have been much mess to clean up, just grab the laundry bag and go. Perhaps there is a small stain. Some flies. Nothing a trip to the carwash wont fix. Ahhh but for that blessed smell.

Out damned Smell!

ICA cleans the car. CA cleans the car. GA does a once over.


I think it's very likely. There were TOO many independant witnesses confirming the smell in the trunk of that car, but there were not enough insects to suggest that a body decomposed in the trunk.

A body DIDNT decompose in the trunk. A Body STARTED decomposing inside some gabarge bags, all wrapped up snug inside that trunk. Not enough time to make a mess, but long enough to start to stink. ICA knew what she would have to clean up if she let things go too far... Hence that laundry bag. The disposal was premeditated for sure. "how am i gonna carry this?" And I would think a majority of the insects that were present on the body at THAT time, went WITH the body, in the black garbage bags.

There is no way that anyone could drive around with a decomposing body in their trunk in the state that the pig was in during TH's experiment. That's so much insect activity that you would likely HEAR them. That was like.. LATE stage decomp. I'm suggesting Early stage decomp,The fresh stage, Before Bloat stage even.

And Name for me one person who can put a 2 day old body suffering rigor into 2, TWO!, different garbage bags and then into a laundry bag. Easiest way to do that is put her in there right away. No fighting with a nasty body later. It's EXACTLY how a person takes out the trash. It makes me sad.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

How come one of the polling options wasn't " Please, for the love of all that is sacred and holy, NO!" ? Because that would be MY vote.

 

[nosytrish]

I didn't watch today's proceedings live but I am listening tonight. IMO TH seems like he was stretching his truth and his experience/tests to meet the requirements of the DT's body movement theory. When JA began cross; TH answered questions with obvious deflections like "in this scenario" or by saying "if the conditions are met..." or "that is a possibility, anything is possible". He tried with all his might to NOT say that the body was moved very early in the decomp process and did not want to confirm that the body was placed in it's final resting place around June 2008. I understand the DT has a job to do, convince the jurors that the body was moved BUT jurors are not stupid. They can differentiate a body being moved by the murderer in the process of cover up and the body being moved later.

JA did a great job on cross. I loved when he made TH confirm that decomp stinks and that when he examined it in 2010, that trunk still stunk! Go JA!!! Also loved his tone when asking about walking by a dumpster in Nebraska.

 

[RANCH]

I didn't watch today's proceedings live but I am listening tonight. IMO TH seems like he was stretching his truth and his experience/tests to meet the requirements of the DT's body movement theory. When JA began cross; TH answered questions with obvious deflections like "in this scenario" or by saying "if the conditions are met..." or "that is a possibility, anything is possible". He tried with all his might to NOT say that the body was moved very early in the decomp process and did not want to confirm that the body was placed in it's final resting place around June 2008. I understand the DT has a job to do, convince the jurors that the body was moved BUT jurors are not stupid. They can differentiate a body being moved by the murderer in the process of cover up and the body being moved later.

JA did a great job on cross. I loved when he made TH confirm that decomp stinks and that when he examined it in 2010, that trunk still stunk! Go JA!!! Also loved his tone when asking about walking by a dumpster in Nebraska.

Great post. TH was extremely evasive on cross by Jeff Ashton.I'm sure the jury will easily see this to mean he's a hired gun who will slant their testimony to whom ever is paying.

 

[whisperOFwings]

I'm not sure what the question "Will Dr Huntington ever testify in another trial" specifically means. Does it mean no one will hire him? Or does it mean he doesn't want to ever testify again? Since it appears that he will work for who ever will pay, whether their the defense or prosecution,and he's a qualified expert in he's field, why wouldn't he be hired? He just testifies the way his employers will want him to.He's simply a hired gun. I think he will get over the trauma of the cross exam by Jeff Aston after a while. I don't think he will quit. IMO.

bolded by me...
I think little eager beaver will eventually learn :innocent:
But yeah, that's the way I perceived him.
Ranch...:blowkiss: thanks for putting into words what has been on my mind all day

 

[whisperOFwings]

I didn't watch today's proceedings live but I am listening tonight. IMO TH seems like he was stretching his truth and his experience/tests to meet the requirements of the DT's body movement theory. When JA began cross; TH answered questions with obvious deflections like "in this scenario" or by saying "if the conditions are met..." or "that is a possibility, anything is possible". He tried with all his might to NOT say that the body was moved very early in the decomp process and did not want to confirm that the body was placed in it's final resting place around June 2008. I understand the DT has a job to do, convince the jurors that the body was moved BUT jurors are not stupid. They can differentiate a body being moved by the murderer in the process of cover up and the body being moved later.

JA did a great job on cross. I loved when he made TH confirm that decomp stinks and that when he examined it in 2010, that trunk still stunk! Go JA!!! Also loved his tone when asking about walking by a dumpster in Nebraska.

:rocker:

 

[Just Jayla]

I hear ethanol is making a big come back...maybe he shoud assist all of those Nebraskan farmers with protecting their corn crop from pests. He could literally make millions in the pesticide business.
Not even joking, I live in a county that provides 33% of all of the agricultural exports from Virginia, and it's a massive business. Just sayin, it's gotta be less stressful...

 

[RANCH]

I love you AZ but I do think it is different. Dr. G or her Assistants are in charge of a crime scene where human remains are found. NOT LE. Without a coroner on scene they are not supposed to remove the remains. They can go to jail without a coroner authorization to move those remains.

Here in CO even if you die in a hospital setting and you haven't been there more than 24 hours the body cannot be moved without the coroner authorizing it.

Coroners will go to crime scenes and decide how the scene will be tended to and how the remains will be handled. That is their job. They have full charge of the crime scene. And the wooded area would be considered a secondary crime scene.

Trying to get his defense bug expert onto a crime scene, so that he could begin the defense of Casey is much different. What this shows is that Casey knew it was Caylee, Baez knew it was Caylee and that LKB had already decided how they would proceed at that point.

The coroners here go to homes, go to nursing homes, go to any unattended death or crime scene where a body is found. And I hear them called a few times a week on the scanner to another area in FLA when someone dies at home. It most states it is a requirement that they appear on scene.

The coroner/ME office were doing their job. The bug expert was assisting in building a defense before the body was identified which tells me they already knew who it was.

I work with Coroner's all the time. When I get a call for a death my first question is always has the coroner released the body.

And Coroners require before I can take the body into my care, that the family sign a release form. Coroners have a great deal of authority in most states.

Grandmaj, it must vary from state to state. I'm in California and in 2005 my uncle passed away. He was 60yrs old. He had heart problems for years and his pacemaker was replaced only one week before his death.He was unattended when he died.
The police were at his house when I arrived.Oh, I should say that a cousin found him and called 911. My mom ,myself and other family members were at his house.We talked to the police officer about an autopsy. He said that since there no sign of a crime and my uncle was under a doctors care that the coroner would not be called.We were free to pay for an autopsy out of pocket if we wanted. That's not cheap.So his doctor signed the death certificate without any involvement from the coroner at all.So we think he died from complications from his pacemaker replacement,but how can you be sure?

 

[Scamperoo]

Referencing Dr Huntington's testimony regarding decomposition stains, there were no "comparable" decomposition stains in the trunk, and tests done by the State say they found none... only one hair of "questionable origin".

There were small identified stains, but nothing significant in the trunk. From the photos shown and my own practical experience, it suggests to me that if decomposition reached the level in the trunk the State suggests, there would be a very large amount of evidence to support the finding... and that evidence does not exist.

The main thing I took away from Huntington's testimony , is that the maggots flee the decomposing body and hide in tight, confined spaces... such as under the trunk liner... and there were none there.

That leaves me two potential conclusions to draw. a) Caylee didn't decompose in the trunk or b) Casey had a lot of help, and therefore there are a lot of suspects that still have to answer some questions.

This so called expert who did most of his testimony without ever having seen, smelled or touched anything to do with this case and who's conclusions were drawn by looking at some photos supplied to him, left the stand so discredited I am really surprised you got anything from his testimony other than he lied, misled and misrepresented on the stand from beginning to end.

He was obviously a bought and paid for witness, not terribly expert in anything and so out of his element he was made to look foolish.
One point, if the DT had bothered to look at the garbage they would have seen what was in that bag, they didn't want to, just so Jose could keep lying and saying there was actual food amongst the packaging. They forgot to inform their witness of this unfortunately.

This expert was made to look like a fool, he wasn't expecting to be on the stand all day and I bet he wasn't made aware of just how tough JA's cross would be. Just shows you the lengths Baez will go to to get this murderous mother off, he isn't even up front to his own witnesses.

In a case such as this if the best witness you can scrape up is an inexperienced bug doctor who has been shown a few pictures and is told to debunk all the qualified experts, then maybe Jose needs to look for another line of work.

 

[Zoe Bogart]

I don't think it is at all significant that the DT called Dr. H on December 11. LE called Dr. G on December 11 as well--does that mean law enforcement was involved in hiding Caylee's body? No.

The Padilla report of finding tiny bits of something quite a distance from the A home that might or might not have been bones (and weren't) was obviously not given as much credence by the DT or by the State as an official LE announcement that the skeleton of a toddler had been found around the corner from the A house. I don't find that suspicious at all.

BBM

Um, um, but the Medical Examiner is SUPPOSED to be called when a body/skeleton is found in the woods. The medical examiner has custody of the body/remains in a case like this.

I'm a bit surprised you would even compare calling the M.E., a legal requirement in a suspicious death, with a bug specialist being called by Casey's attorney on the very day the child's remains were found!

We'll accept as excuse a momentary lapse due to hours of listening to the ins and outs of insects and decomposition and testimony based on viewing pictures of such. :crazy:

 

[Curious Me]

He should be ashamed of himself. Sorry, but he did some lying up there on the stand.

 

[aeneas1]

I don't think it's a big deal that T.H. was called on Dec. 11 2008 when Caylee's remains were found. The media was all over the story -- it was breaking news -- and I'm sure that the defense team knew that a body found a couple of blocks from the Anthony home was like Caylee. Everyone in the media suspected that the body was Caylee back then on Dec. 11, 2008. I think it was a smart thing for LKB to call up and get an entomologist on the defense team that day.

i agree, no big deal... further, i think it was a half-baked, poorly thought out talking head moment between sheaffer and the anchor during friday's testimony that caused this thing to snow ball into a smoking gun by prime time. when th mentioned that he had been contacted on the 11th, sheaffer and company immediately jumped on it, stating that it was a major gotcha moment, because the body had not been identified until the 19th. of course they soon realized that it was announced a body of a small child had been found in the anthony's neighborhood on 11th, and thereafter cooled their jets regarding the importance of th's comment. but prime time ran with it, as if they had already written their copy and couldn't be bothered with details...

 

[Zoe Bogart]

T.E. Huntington, PhD. said he was the second and the youngest member to be admitted to the American Board of Entomologists, which has 15 members! Well, that doesn't sound like much to me. He also said he's been looking at decomposing bodies since he was 16 and working at the mortuary. In all that time, only 75 bodies have been viewed? I would think he would have seen more than 75 in his first year, yet he wants us to believe he's seen 75 since he was 16. Okay.

His testimony was based on viewing photographs? Even the jury wasn't satisfied to look at the heart sticker by photograph only. They wanted it in their hands so they could view it in person, up close, and in 3-D.

Who is that guy trying to kid? What did LKB and JB tell him? "It'll be a piece of cake, the prosecutors are idiots and know nothing about bugs"? Was he not expecting Jeff Ashton not to utilize all that evidence on hand? Tobacco spit? Does he think Florida college students sit around and spit tobacci all day? Tobacco stains on cans? Maybe it was dried Coca Cola drops around the edges of the cans? He should have looked at more than the photos.

Experiments. Why would one not perform the experiment in a similar location? Even Tennessee (Body Farm) is closer to Florida than Nebraska! Tennessee is at least located "in the south", in the heat. What about tossing an unwrapped pig into a trunk? Why not replicate the original body's predicament: blanket, canvass bag, two plastic bags?

Did he not take into consideration that Casey probably tried to clean her car and air it out? Maybe even a few times. She had time to kill while Tony was attending classes and she wasn't working - no job remember, lots of time for scrubbing a car. She must have tried to air it out, possibly letting insects escape.

What about the airing out, cleaning, Febreze-ing, and whatnot done by Cindy? Did TEH, PhD. really think all those bugs would still be in the trunk after all that?

Oh, wait! His testimony was based on photographs of the Sunfire! Oh, I see. Of course, he was right. :doh:

 

[Kelroy]

Disclaimer: I haven't been following this case very long, and I didn't know much at all about it before the trial. Now I've been drawn into the trial process, never having watched a trial very closely before. So, I'm not as vehement as other people who have followed it from the beginning, and I think some--just some!--of the criticisms of the defense and its witnesses has been over the top (not only here; I mean, on TV, in articles, etc.) In short, I consider myself fairly unbiased either way.

So all that was just a preface for this: Wow, I couldn't stand this Huntington guy! His near-absolute refusal to concede any point to the prosecution really got under my skin. Every exchange, as others have said, was qualified by some sort of semantic gymnastics; if Ashton had asked him if the sun were shining, I think TH would have said "It depends on the circumstances . . ." It was absolutely pulling teeth to get him to admit 60-degree days in Nebraska are not circumstantially similar to 95-degree days in Florida, for example. It just seemed to me that TH was basing a lot of his opinions on completely unverified assumptions: he assumed from photographs that there was "a large amount" of tobacco spit in the cans, he assumed from photographs that there was salami in the trash, he assumed from photographs that the trunk stain didn't "look" like a decomposition stain . . . I mean, those hypotheses do not stand up to the scientific method!

That said, I'm sure he'll testify again; I don't doubt he knows a lot about bugs. I don't understand why he made so many unfounded assumptions in this case, though.

 

[Tulessa]

Referencing Dr Huntington's testimony regarding decomposition stains, there were no "comparable" decomposition stains in the trunk, and tests done by the State say they found none... only one hair of "questionable origin".

There were small identified stains, but nothing significant in the trunk. From the photos shown and my own practical experience, it suggests to me that if decomposition reached the level in the trunk the State suggests, there would be a very large amount of evidence to support the finding... and that evidence does not exist.

The main thing I took away from Huntington's testimony , is that the maggots flee the decomposing body and hide in tight, confined spaces... such as under the trunk liner... and there were none there.

That leaves me two potential conclusions to draw. a) Caylee didn't decompose in the trunk or b) Casey had a lot of help, and therefore there are a lot of suspects that still have to answer some questions.

Or c) That Casey cleaned the trunk to the best of her ability. I'm voting on C.

 

[Zoe Bogart]

One thing in T.E. Huntington's favor, his ridiculous method of forming opinions after viewing photographs prompted Jeff Ashton to open some of those evidence boxes we've been so curious about. :applause:

 

[costalpilot]

yes... and they were dead, so when they arrived is quite questionable. That Sunfire was cleaned, cleaned and cleaned again, and to be honest... I think Casey's too lazy to do it by herself. Who helped? That's where Justice is as well.

cmon...shes lazy right. shes maladjusted and doesnt see things in proper perspective, right.

but if a b ody had allegedly stunk up the trunk of her car, even a dim witted lazy rascal like ICA would rouse herself to clean it up as much as possible.

and considering the body was triple bagged and not much leakage occurred, if any, and the FACT that noone except ICA knows exactly how long the body was actually in the trunk

it is totally within the realm of possibility that she cleaned it up herself, maybe many attempts over several days.

i totally do not see that its cleanliness has anything to say CONCLUSIVELY about any potential help or even how long the body was in the car, other than it had to be a shorter rather than longer time.

the body could have been in the ground, the shed, almost anywhere in the A house for several days, put in the car for even hours to a couple of days and then thrown away like trash.