Huntington Contacted on Dec. 11/Will TH Ever Testify Again **Merged**

[sumbunny]

As in the "test" Huntington was performing with his car in Nebraska, the car acted like a fly trap... they could get in, and even all over the passenger compartment, but couldn't get out and would subsequently die where they last land.

What I think they will "dig deeper" no pub intended, into the discovery site. As Huntington said, the soil below where a body decomposes, decomposition fluids will remain highly detectable in the soil... were they?? Or, will there be an expert in serology or an "all around" forensics guru like H. Lee that testifies that the absence of those chemicals/enzymes in soil, means the body was moved there long after the majority of the decomposition took place... which goes against the grain of the State's Theory.

I think you may be forgetting the swamp like atmosphere in which the body was found. I'd expect a lot less decompositional fluids to be recovered under the body in that case.

 

[dani]

I think Ashton came across really badly while Huntington was on the stand. In fact, it was incredibly irritating the way he constantly interrupted, was so disrespectful and basically personally attacked the witness. I think he came across so unprofessional, petty and immature. He deserved being spoken to by the judge.

You take that back this minute! I luvz Jeff Ashton! :luv:

 

[STEADFAST]

I think they can put two and two together and realise that remains of a child Caylee's age found so close to the family home would most likely be hers (not certain but highly likely).

There were other possible remains found in a lake near the (2nd) place Casey said Zanny took Caylee (when Zanny's sister supposedly held her down.) The DT showed no interest -- immediately said the bones weren't Caylee's before the bones were I.D.'ed as animal bones. There were also other times searchers thought they may have found something that might be remains. Only reaction from Casey and her team was mild amusement at such a silly idea. But Casey and the DT reacted very, very much and reacted immediately when these bones were found but not I.D.'ed yet.

Why would Casey or the DT expect that, whoever supposedly hid the supposedly drowned/kidnapped remains of Caylee, this person would hide them near Casey's home? Especially if that person were George?

 

[Kelroy]

I think Ashton came across really badly while Huntington was on the stand. In fact, it was incredibly irritating the way he constantly interrupted, was so disrespectful and basically personally attacked the witness. I think he came across so unprofessional, petty and immature. He deserved being spoken to by the judge.

I've heard some talking heads say this, and I just couldn't disagree more, personally. As I posted above, Huntington got under my skin, and I don't necessarily feel biased against the defense (although, okay, Baez and Mason have annoyed me). I thought Ashton was restrained compared to how I would have acted to such hemming and hawwing, actually.

As for interrupting, here's where I decided I didn't like Huntington: At one point he was answering a question with the usual string of disclaimers and qualifiers, and as he got to the last word--you could tell it was the last word because it was the logical and tonal end of the sentence--Ashton started to speak. Baez objected that Ashton wasn't letting the witness finish, so the judge told Huntington to complete his answer. Ashton apologized, saying he thought TH was finished. And then, rather than saying, "Oh, I was finished," TH said he had totally lost his train of thought and needed to have it read back to him! That's when I, against all my normally calm and rational beliefs--again, I don't dislike defense witnesses simply because I disagree with them or the defense--well, I decided this guy was a big lying weasel. It was obvious (to me) that he knew he'd finished the answer; he simply wanted Ashton to squirm! And that's when the judge got really angry with Ashton, which I found slightly unfair.

I wish I had the time and energy to look up that exchange in the trial footage, but I don't. At any rate, even though this kid looks harmless and I'm sure he is in general, he really was trying to stick it to Ashton in that incident. Maybe he thought Ashton deserved it after the grilling he gave him, but if TH wanted to base all his professional opinions on unverified assumptions about the contents of the trunk, I think he should have expected the grilling.

 

[spyhouston]

Me thinks Dr. TH may have learned a bitter lesson about "when you swim with sharks...."

 

[LiveLaughLuv]

Originally Posted by chicklet
I think Ashton came across really badly while Huntington was on the stand. In fact, it was incredibly irritating the way he constantly interrupted, was so disrespectful and basically personally attacked the witness. I think he came across so unprofessional, petty and immature. He deserved being spoken to by the judge.

Baez did the same with Dr. Vass..JAshton is passionate about the law and upholding it. He sees the scam being played and he doesn't like that one bit. He wants justice for Caylee while Baez wants no justice to come to ICA...JMHO

I voted, Yes, he'll testify again...this was his twist to fit the defenses theory..nothing more but I must say he did contradict himself while JA cross examined him...

His little experiment has nothing to do with this case. He didn't replicate the conditions as Dr. Vass did nor did he use the exact car...It appears the defense didn't give the 'true' facts of the evidence to Dr. Huntington, I believe Baez only gave him what he wanted him to accomplish and I belirve his entire testimony as moot...he cancelled out himself with being contradictory and his experiment was just an experiment...JMHO

Justice for Caylee

 

[STEADFAST]

I don't think it is at all significant that the DT called Dr. H on December 11. LE called Dr. G on December 11 as well--does that mean law enforcement was involved in hiding Caylee's body? No.

The Padilla report of finding tiny bits of something quite a distance from the A home that might or might not have been bones (and weren't) was obviously not given as much credence by the DT or by the State as an official LE announcement that the skeleton of a toddler had been found around the corner from the A house. I don't find that suspicious at all.

Casey and Caylee spent quite a bit of time at Blanchard Park where the fake bones were found (according to Casey, anyway.)
This was on the news when Casey showed no reaction at all:

. . . divers combing the river around Blanchard Park discovered a plastic bag containing fingers and toes and weighted down with bricks, and another with stuffed animals inside on Thursday, according to WOFL's Web site, MyFOXOrlando.com. The area was roped off.

A diving course director involved in the search, David Badali, told FOX News Channel's Miami bureau that the bags found had bones, bricks, a green shamrock toy and another toy inside. He said they were discovered in 10 feet of water at about 1:30 p.m., the area has been declared a crime scene and the FBI was retrieving the items.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,451504,00.html#ixzz1PcrXWh59
​

Didn't faze her at all. even though she and her DT are claiming she had no part in the hiding of the body. The real find, also revealed to her on the news, gave her such a reaction she had to be medicated.

 

[darnudes]

I was curious about a freezer or something being involved, but that means the smell everyone is fixated on, wouldn't be there. Simply transporting even a badly (mid-advanced stage) decomposed thawed body across town, unless there were a lot of bodily fluids spilled, the car wouldn't reek for weeks or months. The smell is unique, horrible, hard to describe, but it does dissipate and go away, unless fluids or tissue remains at the place in question. Then that slows down the smell going away.

bbm

And who brought up a 'freezer scenario' in court yesterday? Why Tim Huntington - I was wondering when he said that if in fact Baez hadn't feed him a load of BS. Can't you just see Baez going to Dr Tim and asking - "hey is it possible that someone like Kronk got hold of the body and kept it in his freezer for months then placed it at Suburban?" Why else would the Dr bring up this patently absurd scenario? Anyway, if that is where Baez was heading that option has been neatly cut off by his own witness. Sucks to be them.

 

[Steely Dan]

Your theory is totally plausible as well, we just disagree. As for calling an Entomologist the day of the find, not the identification, means nothing.
There's media footage of Kenney-Baden, Henry Lee and other defense forensic investigators standing outside the crime scene tape while the scene was being worked, because they OC would not allow the defense to monitor the investigation, which, as all of these experts have said, is just not ever the case. Particularly when it comes to an outside forensic pathologist being disallowed from the autopsy, as also happened in this case.

I know Casey is guilty of many crimes here, but she's not in this alone... this is a family matter. But certainly! We can still be friends!!!:seeya:

I may be wrong about this but my recollection is that the defense is never allowed at a crime scene before the police have cleared it. Also, I think the same goes for autopsys. The defense has to poke holes through the reports.

I thought GA testified to a stain early on - about the size of a basketball? Maybe I am misrecalling though. :waitasec:

How would chloroform and gas affect the expected bug ratio? ITA that a cleanup happened...just wondering if a large volume of chloroform coupled with a gas spill may have attributed to a lower than expected number of insects.

I think it was pointed out by JA yesterday that the chloroform would kill any bugs before they could do anything. So not many bugs in the car trunk doesn't trouble me at all. Also, the body was underwater for a significant amount of time and that would explain the lack of bugs associated with the body. JMO

Couldn't there have actually been a lot more flies to begin with, though. I mean, the rain and the hurricane surely would have strewn them about? I think, due to the elements, it's probably unusual that they even found that many. I don't know...just thinking out loud.

Agreed.

But it wasn't a long shot that it was Caylee. The media "identified" her within an hour, even Kronk mentioned in his 911 call that the remains were in the "Caylee" area. She was practically in the Anthony's back yard. It wasn't a big logical leap for LKB to make, IMO.

I dare say, most of us made that leap as soon as the news broke.

Yes, but remember the defense was still insisting that Caylee was alive at this time. Is it a smoking gun, no but in my mind very close to it.

 

[Big al]

At first thought, it might seem significant - except for the fact that he is also testifying about the flies in the trunk of the car, which was recovered in July.

totally agree with this, i think there was bug spray, vacuuming, shampooing, febrezing, paper towelling, dryer sheeting and when all that STILL failed, there was throwing poor innocent squirrels *literally* under the car (bus) and then dumping the car near a dumpster. but guess what, 2 years later, the smell was still there.

Why has the State not submitted this info?

 

[DeadCat]

can't find it on the jail visit... CA was telling ICA about GA working in the yard and smelling i found this where she states GA sweats all over yard... FWIW

Thanks for looking.

 

[Sharai]

BBM . . . that assumes the body was in the trunk not wrapped in a blanket, not in a bag inside a bag inside a bag.

I think the multiple wrapping of Caley's body is significant. It was contained in the wrapping, and the wrapping was contained in the trunk. imho

 

[Sharai]

even when it is an "accident"?

Working from the assumption this was an accidental drowning,then why did KC object to GA getting something, I think the tire wedge and/or the gas cans, out of the trunk of her car. As I recall she quickly went to the car and got the items and said something to the effect of "here's your f*&^%$ing blank." Just thinking out loud.

 

[pip]

TH turned out to be a big talking tater tot. JA proved him to be a greenhorn as to his 'expertise'. I hope the jury found him less than the expert than he and the DT claimed him to be. No one likes a know-it-all that can't back up their claims with extensive and proven experience.

 

[Sharai]

Exactly! I have been saying all along that there is no way that a body was in the trunk.

First: Adiopocere only develops in cold, moist and oxygen deprived environments( such as being buried in lake or mud filled environment)...I don't think a trunk in July constitutes a oxygen deprived cold environment. Plus all the "fatty acids found on the towels and in the trunk can be found in other items also) and the chemical compounds that Dr. Vass attributed to human decomposition.

2-Butanone- is used in cleaning agents
2-Methyl-Furan-is usually found in plant material and not human decomposition
Methyl-Acetate- is found in nail polish remover
Acetone-is found in nail polish remover
Butyrate-a fatty acid (Dr. Vass states it was discharge from the body) however Butyrate is also found in butter and Parmesan cheese. Example when butter goes rancid it releases Butyrate. Remember there was garbage in the trunk of the car.
Carbon Disulfide-is a compound of carbon and sulfur which when in its pure form smells like CHLOROFORM. Its primary use is in cellophane or Rayon.
Carbon Tetrachloride- is form by combining Carbon Disulfide with chlorine. It is also known as Halon or as Freon.
Chloroethane-used in gas tanks as an “anti-knock” addictive.
Chloroform-is a simple solution that can be made from combining Acetone, Chlorine bleach, ethanol and ice! Interesting tidbit: Chloroform once appeared in toothpastes, cough syrups, ointments, and other pharmaceuticals, but it has been banned as a consumer product in the US since 1976. Cough syrups containing Chloroform can still be legally purchased in pharmacies and supermarkets in the UK.

Second: Chloroform can be formed by the mixture of Acetone with other chemicals, bleach etc....

Third: I have never seen a stain in the trunk liner, I guess it is all based on perception. But LongTime you know just as well as I do when a body decomposes if a stain forms on ( wood, carpet, mattress) you CANNOT get it out nor can you get rid of the smell, I don't care how much Febreeze you use.

One death I responded to > 2 weeks in a house no AC in the middle of the summer here in Florida was so bad that the body actually stained the terrazzo floor. Oh and there were thousands of maggots and flies. The smell was so bad that it permeated my hair, clothes everything.....My partner and I had to throw our clothes away as soon as we got back to our station. It wasn't a pretty scene.Three days later I could still smell the "decomp" in my hair. That's why I can't believe that the body decomposed in the trunk.

But this is JMO:seeya:

So where do you think the decomposition site is?

 

[Studio_Medic]

I think at some point Casey had Caylee in the freezer in the garage Adiopocere cold, damp, oxygen deprived environment. She was setting up her parents. Remember she disappeared. She wasn't seen for weeks. She wasn't at the crime scene. When Mother didn't open the freezer for a bag of fries and find Caylee she then went to the house and moved her to the woods. That is when the Adiopocere ended up in her car. She tried to clean it up with a paper towel she had in the trunk from Tony's house. Then dumped the car. Again, never intending to touch the car again until Mom and Dad are in jail for murdering her child.

Thank you grandmaj......that sounds like a plausible explanation! I am is just trying to put out there some other scenarios......that would fit up to the evidence that has been presented......I will state again I do not think that ICA is innocent, but if you are a Defender than you need to provide the jury with all plausible explanations. I don't believe her Defense team has done a good job refuting all the State's evidence. JB's inexperience is definitely showing......

 

[Studio_Medic]

So where do you think the decomposition site is?

I think she was in the woods all along....now obviously she was transported there by some means which could have been in any of the A's vehicles.......IIRC it still has not been established where Casey's car was on June 16th. She was seen with TL at Blockbuster, but they went in his Jeep. Did she leave her car at TL's???

 

[Studio_Medic]

I love you AZ but I do think it is different. Dr. G or her Assistants are in charge of a crime scene where human remains are found. NOT LE. Without a coroner on scene they are not supposed to remove the remains. They can go to jail without a coroner authorization to move those remains.

Here in CO even if you die in a hospital setting and you haven't been there more than 24 hours the body cannot be moved without the coroner authorizing it.

Coroners will go to crime scenes and decide how the scene will be tended to and how the remains will be handled. That is their job. They have full charge of the crime scene. And the wooded area would be considered a secondary crime scene.

Trying to get his defense bug expert onto a crime scene, so that he could begin the defense of Casey is much different. What this shows is that Casey knew it was Caylee, Baez knew it was Caylee and that LKB had already decided how they would proceed at that point.

The coroners here go to homes, go to nursing homes, go to any unattended death or crime scene where a body is found. And I hear them called a few times a week on the scanner to another area in FLA when someone dies at home. It most states it is a requirement that they appear on scene.

The coroner/ME office were doing their job. The bug expert was assisting in building a defense before the body was identified which tells me they already knew who it was.

I work with Coroner's all the time. When I get a call for a death my first question is always has the coroner released the body.

And Coroners require before I can take the body into my care, that the family sign a release form. Coroners have a great deal of authority in most states.

Working in Florida is much different though. I have been a Paramedic for over 27 years not only here in Orange County (Orlando), but also in Pinellas County (St Pete Clearwater) which remind you has a large amount of retirement communities. I have been on hundreds and hundreds of scenes involving death intentional, expected and unattended natural deaths in nursing homes etc. In Pinellas County on almost every shift for 12 years, I had to pronounce someone dead. To this day it was the absolute worse part of my job. 9/10 even though the person was elderly, the family had not made any funeral arrangements; so I would assist them.

The only time the coroner was called was if it was suspicious death or a murder where obvious death had occurred. If it was suspicious or an obvious murder or suicide then the police ( that's if police arrived first) would only allow (1) paramedic onto the scene to pronounce the patient) to protect the scene) and then crime scene investigators would be called followed last, but not least the ME's office. LE was in complete control regardless of what county I was working in.

As a matter of fact when my 65 y/o father-in law died at home here in Orlando unattended ( he was not sick or in ill health), EMS was called, pronounced my FIL dead, OCSO came out did a brief report and then we had to find a funeral home that would come out and pick up his body.We sat with his body for over 12 hours before a funeral home would come and get him because we did have any $$$$ for the funeral home at the time of his death. No one from the coroners office ever contacted us and an autopsy was never done.

Also I have responded to several homicide, suicide cases here in Orlando where the person was obviously deceased and beyond medical help. LE would tape off the scene, CSI would be called in to take their pictures etc. The ME assistant would be called AFTER CSI has completed their work, the body would be then be transported to the ME's office where an autopsy would then be performed. The only time I have ever seen Dr. G was when I went to one her seminars at Orlando Regional Medical Center she has never responded to any scene that I have been on.

My opinion only: The ONLY reason Dr. G went to the scene for this case was because this was such a high profile case. Ultimately, it was Orange County Sheriff's Dept scene followed by FDLE ( Florida Dept of Law Enforcement) and the FBI.

 

[Steely Dan]

This IS a great find!

3. Answer the questions that are asked. You may know your stuff, and give me a really great answer, but if you haven’t actually answered the question that was given I’m going to smack you down for it.
4. Points for essay questions are awarded based on strength of argument. You may be right about the question, or you may be very, very wrong. But if you do not support your opinion with facts it won’t matter either way. So tell me why your answer is correct (or why you think it is anyways). I really like examples. If you can cite some examples that support your answer the chances of you passing the course will improve.

He reminded me of all the Anthony's who go on and on and try to make you forget he could have just answered "yes" or "no."

Today he ran out of hallway.

:floorlaugh:

During Huntington's testimony today a couple of thoughts popped into my mind.

1. Flies that have gone into a trunk because of Caylee being in there would not need to be left in the trunk until they died. Casey was still using the car for many days, opening the driver door and possibly even the back door and trunk. At some point Casey had to remove Caylee from the trunk when she put her in the woods, at that time we have no idea how many flies came out of the trunk.

2. When Tony came back from NY and Casey picked him up at the airport Casey showed him on the way back to his place the car wash place that she used to clean out his Jeep for him. Is it really a far fetched idea to think that she also used the same car wash place to attempt to clean out her own car after it began to smell?

3. The "study" that Huntington did really does not compare to what happened with Caylee at all. If he had intended to see how many flies were going to be in the trunk area of a car then he should have followed the same type of scenerio as in the actual case. 2 trash bags, laundry bag, in trunk for 2 to 5 days and in the same heat as in Florida. It really seems like his "study" was simply a waste of time.

:goodpost:

Working from the assumption this was an accidental drowning,then why did KC object to GA getting something, I think the tire wedge and/or the gas cans, out of the trunk of her car. As I recall she quickly went to the car and got the items and said something to the effect of "here's your f*&^%$ing blank." Just thinking out loud.

:goodpost:

 

[Steely Dan]

Check this out;

http://dsc.discovery.com/videos/mythbusters-stinky-car-minimyth.html