I believe the Ramseys are innocent.

[BlueCrab]

Although you make some interesting points regarding the note and who wrote it, it doesn't look like a foregone conclusion.

IF one of the Ramseys did it then a fake ransom note could explain them casting suspicion to an intruder. BUT.. I think the note was written by someone with clearly above average intelligence, despite its juvenile threats and boasting. AT 10 , Burke wouldn't be capable of writing like that. If you think that a fifth person dictated the note and Burke wrote it, then Patsy would then need to copy it.

"Clearly above average intelligence?" How about a teenage college student who lived at the Stines and was Doug Stine's caregiver while the parents worked?

The Ramseys made two stops on their way home from the White's dinner party -- the Walker's and the Stine's.


TOM HANEY: "Did anybody take presents up with you?"

PATSY RAMSEY: "Best as I remember, we went to the Walkers first and I took this bottle of perfume to Roxie. And then we went to the Stines and I had a basket of things to give to them. And I think I went by myself. Burke may have jumped out of the car, because it's his friends."

TOM HANEY: "The Stines?"

PATSY RAMSEY: "The Stines. So it was either -- it was either just myself or maybe Burke and myself."


Burke's FRIENDS (plural)? There were only two people living at the Stine's besides parents Glen and Susan. So Burke's friends were Doug Stine, aged 10, and Nathan Inouye, about aged 18 or 19?

Nathan was capable of writing A/O dictating the ransom note. Was Nathan the fifth, or sixth, person in the house that night? It appears Nathan's name has been deliberately kept hush-hush in the investigation. Why?

JMO

 

[vicktor]

Nathan was capable of writing A/O dictating the ransom note. Was Nathan the fifth, or sixth, person in the house that night? It appears Nathan's name has been deliberately kept hush-hush in the investigation. Why?

JMO

I agree he had the ability to write the note and hypothetically could have been present. I don't have an answer to your question.

But referencing the Occams Razor thread, it appears more likely that an intruder wrote it and recopied it, than a Ramsey or Nathan Inouye, IMO.

 

[BlueCrab]

I agree he had the ability to write the note and hypothetically could have been present. I don't have an answer to your question.

But referencing the Occams Razor thread, it appears more likely that an intruder wrote it and recopied it, than a Ramsey or Nathan Inouye, IMO.

victor,

Why would an INTRUDER write a fake ransom note trying to pin the crime on an INTRUDER? The existence of the fake ransom note itself proves there was no intruder.

JMO

 

[Spade]

Tom Haney asked a similar question as BC poses in his post.

He phrased it: "Why write a three page note asking for ransom and then forget to take the collateral (JonBenet) with you?"

 

[Shylock]

PATSY RAMSEY: "Burke may have jumped out of the car, because it's his friends."

Burke's FRIENDS (plural)? There were only two people living at the Stine's besides parents Glen and Susan.

Not FRIENDS (plural), but FRIEND'S (possesive). "It's his friend's house."
Your usage would require the word "they're" in place of the word "it's".

 

[BlueCrab]

Tom Haney asked a similar question as BC poses in his post.

He phrased it: "Why write a three page note asking for ransom and then forget to take the collateral (JonBenet) with you?"

That's correct. Only a Ramsey would have had a motive to stage the murder to make it look like an intruder did it. Only a Ramsey would have had a motive to write a three-page FAKE ransom note as part of the staging. Why would an intruder want to set himself up? He wouldn't. There was no intruder. The fake ransom note proves it.

JMO

 

[sissi]

There is a high degree of possibility that this perp was acting on his own fantasy, the ransom note being part of it. We all agree that staging seems to be present in many aspects of this crime,this would fit neatly into the "fantasy" crime. It would be choreographed and acted out! What would we see? STAGING! He had already written the script! IMO

 

[BrotherMoon]

In Christianity ransom = sacrifice.

 

[Britt]

There is a high degree of possibility that this perp was acting on his own fantasy, the ransom note being part of it. We all agree that staging seems to be present in many aspects of this crime,this would fit neatly into the "fantasy" crime. It would be choreographed and acted out! What would we see? STAGING! He had already written the script! IMO

Yes, that could be it exactly. And the perp was PATSY RAMSEY. But dammit, the rest of the world (with a handful of exceptions) just refuses to stick to the script!

 

[Shylock]

this would fit neatly into the "fantasy" crime. It would be choreographed and acted out! What would we see? STAGING! He had already written the script! IMO

I think space aliens came down and murdered JonBenet because there is a higher probability they did it then some choreographed intruder.

If I remember right, one of BlueCrab's secondary theories has Burke causing his sister's death by communication with the space aliens using Patsy's Ouija board.

 

[sissi]

Shylock,do you recall Roderick Ferrell,and his November 1996 murders?
I suggest before you discount fantasy murders,you should do a search,or go to a library and read about a few.
IMO

 

[vicktor]

victor,

Why would an INTRUDER write a fake ransom note trying to pin the crime on an INTRUDER? The existence of the fake ransom note itself proves there was no intruder.

JMO

If you look at what happened using one of the best suspects as a guide, the crime and ransom note makes sense. This suspect lived in Boulder, was unemployed, and often went to the church around the corner from the Ramseys. He had been in prison for sexually assaulting a 7 year old girl, had been evaluated as a paranoid schizophrenic, and was described by a friend as off the wall and becoming more sinister. The intruder wrote the note as a fake because he wanted to taunt the police, who he no-doubt disliked, to insult the Ramseys, because he found their wealth irratating, and because he enjoyed crime movies and Ransom was playing in Dec. '96. He could have taken JB with him when he left and left her in a park or behind an empty house, with or without a note. Either way she was dead. He didn't want to point to himself. He camouflaged his handwriting, and stated that he was familiar with LE countermeasures and tactics, and apparently managed not to leave any traceable evidence.

Consider the senario of him leaving her body several blocks from the house, and changing the ransom amount to say $500.000. Then I bet the main discussion would be about why the kidnapper never followed thru to collect!

 

[Shylock]

Shylock,do you recall Roderick Ferrell,and his November 1996 murders?
I suggest before you discount fantasy murders,you should do a search,or go to a library and read about a few.
IMO

I am unaware of any space aliens or vampires who kill people and then leave fake ransom notes behind.

 

[Sprocket]

The fact of the matter is, the ransom note was the "war & peace" of ransom notes.

JonBenet: Inside the Ramsey Murder Investigation.

"In turn, the CASKU agents noted that of the more than seventeen hundred murdered children they had studied since the 1960's, there was only one case in which the victim was a female under the age of twelve, who had been murdered in her home by strangulation, with sexual assult and a ransom note present--and that was JonBenet Ramsey.

They told us that while it might be possible that someone broke into the house that night, it wasn't very probable. The staging, evidence, and totality of the case pointed in one directon--that this was not the act of an intruder.

The crime, they said, did not fit an act of sex or revenge or one in which money was the motivation. Taken alone, the said, each piece of evidence might be argued, but together, enough pebbles become a block of evidentiary granite." Page 216

"Based on their studies of the evidence we provided, they believed the note was written in the home, after the murder, and indicated panic. Ransom notes are normally written prior to the crime, usually proofread, and not written by hand, in order to disguise the authorship." pagae 217

So, why is it, that people discount the seasoned experience of individuals (CASKU) who study this stuff all the time? We're not talking about Boulder PD who screwed up from the get go. We are talking about people who have looked at the specifics of MORE than, "just a few murders." Seventeen hundred.

Can anyone say, that a similar crime, with a war and peace ransome note left behind, supposedly part of the "signature" (YAWN), has ever happened since? With a child in the same age group? With no dna left behind? (Sorry; that DNA was DEGRADED.) And nothing of the killer left in the house? No, there hasn't. For this to be a serial killer, there is a signature element, that will be present. Why leave a ransom note in ONE intruder break-in kidnapping, and NOT in another? Serial killers have a hard time, breaking out of their pattern. They may commit a crime differently, BUT, for something to be considered part of a "signature" it will be present in all crimes. It's what the killer needs, to do, to get his specific release, or thrill.

Regardless of the fact that this info is in Thomas's book; why misrepresent these facts, that can easily be verified?

 

[sissi]

Shylock,I do not suggest this was a crime committed by either aliens or vampires,I suggest the number of unusual elements point to a "fantasy" crime.
You are correct ,in that, ransom notes,multiple methods of murder ,leaving bodies in the home, are all unusual,"hence" my reasoning behind checking out crimes committed by perps who fantasized before acting out.
IMO

 

[Sprocket]

A "fantasy" crime? Please show examples where, ALL the elemnts are explained, and fit the outlines of a "fantasy"?

This crime doesn't fit a "fantasy" crime. But it DOES fit in with STAGING, the WAR & PEASE ransom note written AFTER the fact, an "intruder" who had to be very comfortable in the home, where the body was LEFT, and the care that was taken with the body.

Plus, throw in the parents behavior. If you think, the Ramsey's behavior, "....can't be held against them..." think again. (I mean, you really do need to think.) BEHAVIOR is what gives the MAJORITY of criminals away.

Again and again and again, innocent people, ACT innocent. They cooperate, with LE, to find the "intruder" who killed their precious child.

This, imho, is the ONE STUMBLING block, that posters who feel the Ramseys are innocent can't get around. Their behavior.

jmho, of course.

 

[BrotherMoon]

A "fantasy" crime? Please show examples where, ALL the elemnts are explained, and fit the outlines of a "fantasy"?

This crime doesn't fit a "fantasy" crime.

That's exactly what it is. Read John Douglas' books. Obsession and fantasy that deepens and gradually crosses over from the mind to the real world where the psychotic attempts to control objects in the real world to conform to his/her fantasy, ending in destruction and/or death.

I refer to the pageant costuming as evidence of progressive obsession.

I refer to the literary content of the ransom note as indicators of mythic fantasy.

 

[vicktor]

In response to Sprocket:

What does CASKU stand for? Its also true that there is no record other than the JBR case of a yound girl being strangled to death with a garotte in her home. (Petechaie were found in the small blood vessels of the eyes. This effect is seen in victims who died of strangulation.)

Part of your discussion indicates that you think that a ransom note points to a signature, and that the person will repeat his efforts. I disagree, and feel that they haven't and won't commit a similar crime.

Normal ransom notes... An intruder would have written the note beforehand. It looked like it was copied and proofread. The author disguised the writing by changing the slant and form of almost every letter (except u ). If one of the Ramseys wrote it/copied it in a panic, why make it 3 pages long, then have to copy it, with every i dotted, every t crossed and every period in place? BTW, in all of Patsy's exemplars she never did make a u like those found in the note.

 

[Toltec]

This is not a fantasy crime...what persons fantasy involves other people??? (foreign faction)

What "foreign faction" uses words like "don't grow a brain", "use that good southern common sense" ...and addresses Mr. Ramsey by his first name? This is no foreign faction.

Burke could not have written the note...especially the term "fat cat". Where would he have heard that? John talks about his friends the Atlanta fat cats.

Patsy uses the numbers 1997 in her Christmas letter...Burke will see the orthodontist in 1997...where typically you would write Burke will see the orthodontist next year.

There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that Patsy wrote the note.

NONE.

 

[Sprocket]

In response to Sprocket:

What does CASKU stand for? Its also true that there is no record other than the JBR case of a yound girl being strangled to death with a garotte in her home. (Petechaie were found in the small blood vessels of the eyes. This effect is seen in victims who died of strangulation.)

Part of your discussion indicates that you think that a ransom note points to a signature, and that the person will repeat his efforts. I disagree, and feel that they haven't and won't commit a similar crime.

Normal ransom notes... An intruder would have written the note beforehand. It looked like it was copied and proofread. The author disguised the writing by changing the slant and form of almost every letter (except u ). If one of the Ramseys wrote it/copied it in a panic, why make it 3 pages long, then have to copy it, with every i dotted, every t crossed and every period in place? BTW, in all of Patsy's exemplars she never did make a u like those found in the note.

CASKU is a unit in the FBI that stands for Child Abduction and Serial Killer Unit.

I don't believe the "WAR & Peace" ransom note is a sign of a killer's "signature," but others on this thread have suggested that, it was part of an intruder's "need." To me, there is ZERO evidence of this.

I'm using the words from Thomas' book, and what the CASKU unit said about the crime and ransom note to show what the ransom note DOES reveal. Evidence of panic, and staging after the crime, by someone who was very comfortable in the home.