I believe the Ramseys are innocent.

[Sprocket]

That's exactly what it is. Read John Douglas' books. Obsession and fantasy that deepens and gradually crosses over from the mind to the real world where the psychotic attempts to control objects in the real world to conform to his/her fantasy, ending in destruction and/or death.

I refer to the pageant costuming as evidence of progressive obsession.

I refer to the literary content of the ransom note as indicators of mythic fantasy.

Douglas is not my favorite profiler. Douglas also has made claims, in his books that HE was the one who "first" had the idea to interview serial killers in prison. Robert Ressler's book, WHOEVER HUNTS MONSTERS, clearly shows that it was his idea, and how it came about.

 

[wenchie]

Hello everyone....first post for me on this forum.

I have so many questions about this murder case (and so many opinions, too,of course)...but my first question to anyone who believes they are innocent (and excuse me if this has been asked before) would be:

Why would an intruder bother leaving a ransom note when they had to know that the body would certainly be found before any ransom could be delivered?

 

[Shylock]

That's exactly what it is. Read John Douglas' books.

Please...John Douglas is an idiot. Let's ask John Douglas about Paul Morin, the innocent man he helped put in prison with one of his bogus profiles. (Oops, sorry...that's a case Douglas refuses to talk about...)
But you can always find out the truth in other places: http://www.uplink.com.au/lawlibrary/Documents/Docs/Doc52.html

 

[Shylock]

Why would an intruder bother leaving a ransom note when they had to know that the body would certainly be found before any ransom could be delivered?

An intruder wouldn't. The note was written by a family member to point the crime outside the house. It worked perfectly. Without the note, the cops would have focused on the parents not long after arriving on the scene and a whole different investigation would have resulted.

 

[wenchie]

An intruder wouldn't. The note was written by a family member to point the crime outside the house. It worked perfectly. Without the note, the cops would have focused on the parents not long after arriving on the scene and a whole different investigation would have resulted.

Exactly. You're stuck with a dead child...what are you going to do? If you just call the police and say she's missing...when they find her in the house, it will point straight to you. You know there will be no evidence of an intruder....so you manufacture some by writing the not, and you hide the body.

She tried too hard when she wrote that ranson note. With every detail that she added to try to point away from her...she dug herself even deeper.

The first time I saw that S.B.T.C. I knew that it meant "Saved By The Cross", and that it was her attempt at atonement for what she'd done.

 

[Blazeboy3]

Exactly. You're stuck with a dead child...what are you going to do? If you just call the police and say she's missing...when they find her in the house, it will point straight to you. You know there will be no evidence of an intruder....so you manufacture some by writing the not, and you hide the body.

She tried too hard when she wrote that ranson note. With every detail that she added to try to point away from her...she dug herself even deeper.

The first time I saw that S.B.T.C. I knew that it meant "Saved By The Cross", and that it was her attempt at atonement for what she'd done.

Yup, I agree...so simple & beyond belief for most...that is why WE ARE HERE!!!

 

[wenchie]

Yup, I agree...so simple & beyond belief for most...that is why WE ARE HERE!!!

And that's why I am now here. It's maddening. Everything about their story is absurd, and yet so many people bought into it.

 

[Blazeboy3]

IMHO it's a created "problem" with a created "reaction" with a far-fetched "solution"; IMHO...it just is what it is for now!
IMHO, who would have ever thought "free thinking" would be for sale(or free)or "so so so cheap" thanks to the R's IMHO ... JonBenet deserved(es) way way way better than this IMHO... :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo:

 

[wenchie]

So, I hope you'll forgive me if I bring up things that you've probably rehashed hundreds of times already.

When I saw the R's first interview on TV, and Patsy said, "at least TWO people know who did this; the murderer, and perhaps someone he told"....I thought "why don't you just come out and tell us, Patsy...that the TWO people are the ones we're looking at."

Why would anyone assume that two people knew...and that a murderer always tells at least one person?

Why did she directly contradict the ransom note....which said "we" and mentioned several people? She was telling us that the ransom note was a lie, and that she knew it.

 

[Blazeboy3]

So, I hope you'll forgive me if I bring up things that you've probably rehashed hundreds of times already.

When I saw the R's first interview on TV, and Patsy said, "at least TWO people know who did this; the murderer, and perhaps someone he told"....I thought "why don't you just come out and tell us, Patsy...that the TWO people are the ones we're looking at."

Why would anyone assume that two people knew...and that a murderer always tells at least one person?

Why did she directly contradict the ransom note....which said "we" and mentioned several people? She was telling us that the ransom note was a lie, and that she knew it.

Yes & no; IMHO Patsy knew how to play the game & when (it takes 2); Patsy has a dual(2) personality gift(if you call it that); if you dare to see it, it's what she feeds off of to move ahead/forward. She gave ALOT OF CLUES TO US(ALL) SO SOON SO "IN-YOUR-FACE" that we (us) weren't ready for that and we just blew it off because "we couldn't go there (we just couldn't think that she/her's could do such a crime)"...Patsy knew it was just beyond OUR COMPREHENSION/belief that any MOTHER/MOM would kill their own beautiful 6yr old child who had so much life/gift/potential; no Ms Patsy knew this and that is WHY SHE DID WHAT SHE DID...because she knew...she knew the what/why/when/who/where and how to make it rich/famous whether it be negative or positive she was going to have it her way :boohoo: IMHO!!!
...it was the game Patsy chose to play regardless of harm to others...

 

[BrotherMoon]

When I saw the R's first interview on TV, and Patsy said, "at least TWO people know who did this; the murderer, and perhaps someone he told"

Why would anyone assume that two people knew...and that a murderer always tells at least one person?

Actually Patsy said "the killer and someone that person may have confided in."

So she (Jean Brodie) confided according to what seemed expedient at the time, and was now in fact on the look out for a girl amongst her set in whom she could confide entirely,

Of necessity there had to be just one...TPOMJB

 

[BrotherMoon]

Yes & no; IMHO Patsy knew how to play the game & when (it takes 2); Patsy has a dual(2) personality gift(if you call it that)

Keep counting Blaze, I come up with seven.

 

[vicktor]

Hello everyone....

Why would an intruder bother leaving a ransom note when they had to know that the body would certainly be found before any ransom could be delivered?

Hello, Wenchie. I happen to feel that the intruder theory is more likely, so I will respond.

The ransom note is generally considered to be a fake, a prop. FBI profilers said that because of its long length and varied content, it differed from the type of note usually seen ( short and to the point) and was likely a fake. The amount of ransom asked was ridiculously low and was an odd figure. This clearly indicates that the writer saw the figure not as a monetary sum he wanted to collect, but as a reference to some other figure. Possible suggestions: 1. the after tax amount of John's bonus, as seen on his check stubs, 2. the number of cases (118) profiled in a popular FBI profilers book about famous cases. 3. a reference to Psalms 118, which includes the phrase "bind up the sacrafice", and also a few more obscure references. IMO, the most likely is #1, because it agrees with John's bonus and is directly connected to the family, and fits the content of the note. Question: if Patsy wrote the note, why would she use the figure of 118,000, an amount that could easily be connected to her knowing John's bonus or having read Psalms 118? Why not use 250,000 which would look like a true ransom demand?
If you would like to read more about the why, a lot of logical ideas are found in posts #156, 163, 173, and #179.

 

[Cherokee]

Hello, Wenchie. I happen to feel that the untruder theory is more likely, so I will respond.

I agree it was an untruder ... obviously a Ramsey who was in the house that night.


IMO

 

[BlueCrab]

Why would an intruder bother leaving a ransom note when they had to know that the body would certainly be found before any ransom could be delivered?

Correct. Also, why would an INTRUDER write a fake ransom note in the first place trying to point guilt away from the house and toward an INTRUDER. He wouldn't. Only a Ramsey would do that. An intruder would try to point guilt toward a Ramsey, not toward himself.

And why would all three Ramseys lie to the cops about Burke being asleep at 5:52 A.M. when he was actually standing near the phone and talking to his parents?

And why the Ramsey coverup (footdragging, denials of the obvious, lies) starting on Day One and continuing to this day?

It's obvious one of the Ramseys killed JonBenet or knows who killed her. There was no intruder.

JMO

 

[wenchie]

Hello, Wenchie. I happen to feel that the intruder theory is more likely, so I will respond.

The ransom note is generally considered to be a fake, a prop. FBI profilers said that because of its long length and varied content, it differed from the type of note usually seen ( short and to the point) and was likely a fake. The amount of ransom asked was ridiculously low and was an odd figure. This clearly indicates that the writer saw the figure not as a monetary sum he wanted to collect, but as a reference to some other figure. Possible suggestions: 1. the after tax amount of John's bonus, as seen on his check stubs, 2. the number of cases (118) profiled in a popular FBI profilers book about famous cases. 3. a reference to Psalms 118, which includes the phrase "bind up the sacrafice", and also a few more obscure references. IMO, the most likely is #1, because it agrees with John's bonus and is directly connected to the family, and fits the content of the note. Question: if Patsy wrote the note, why would she use the figure of 118,000, an amount that could easily be connected to her knowing John's bonus or having read Psalms 118? Why not use 250,000 which would look like a true ransom demand?
If you would like to read more about the why, a lot of logical ideas are found in posts #156, 163, 173, and #179.

Because...just in case they actually got away with it to the point where they had to arrange a phony "drop", she knew that $118,000 was readily available without having to cash in any accounts? Because.....she's a nut? Because....she wanted to make it look like someone who knew all about them did this for revenge? Because she had to think fast, and that $118,000 was already on her mind? Because.....she's not very bright.

Again: why would an intruder even WRITE a ransom note when they had to know that the body would be discovered. The Ramsey's probably expected her to be found right away, which is why John took the opportunity, when told to look around again....to head straight for her body.

Do you believe that someone could enter your (dark) house...not leaving any signs of a break-in....wake your child up and take her downstairs for some pineapple...know their way around the kitchen well enough to do it (in the dark, again)....keep the child silent the entire time....then kill her using two separate means...take her upstairs and wash her, change her clothes, write in her hand...wrap her in a blanket...take her downstairs to an obscure (dark) part of the house...finish killing her with a garotte made out of materials at hand...and then write that long note and take off without leaving a fingerprint, a hair, a trace of evidence.....and never cause a soul in that house to wake up?

If you found a ransom note that said you would be called for instructions...wouldn't you be sitting by the phone? The detective said that they showed no special interest when the phone would ring. Also...they used that phone to make many calls, thereby tying it up....when they must have had cell phones. Would you use your phone if you were waiting for ransom instructions?

 

[Ivy]

Excellent post, wenchie. I'd say you pretty much nailed it.

imo

 

[nanandjim]

Excellent post, wenchie. I'd say you pretty much nailed it.

imo

I second that, wenchie. A little common sense goes a long way. Plus, isn't the Ramsey's house several levels and at least 8,500 square feet?? It amazes me that the murderers didn't bring any props of their own. How lucky they were to find everything that they needed so readily. My, my...they certainly knew that house extremely well. I'm not even sure that I could find all of the materials used so quickly in my own home. So, the intruders were knowledgeable, organized, quiet and quite resourceful as they pulled off this heinous crime.

One more thing that I wanted to ask: Didn't a neighbor see all of the lights go on in the house around midnight or so?

 

[Nehemiah]

One more thing that I wanted to ask: Didn't a neighbor see all of the lights go on in the house around midnight or so?

No, just an odd light in the kitchen area.

IMO

 

[Trino]

I think it all comes down to the Ramsey's reactions. If this happened to my child, I would turn the world upsidedown to get the murderer. I would not hide behind a lawyer and refuse to give an interview to the police.