IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #13

[nikb]

For the "boat people" (sorry, I couldn't resist), is there any basis for a boat being involved besides LE inquiring about a paddle boater on Meyer's Lake that Friday and someone living close to the lake saying something about their paddle boat having been used?

I don't completely discount a boat being used to gain the girls' trust beforehand or being used directly in the abduction. But in my mind, a boat being involved seems to complicate things so much.

I think you just called me a "boat person"! I don't know if I should be insulted or laugh. But I love being out on boats so I'll pick laugh. (I hope it's obvious I'm completely kidding about being insulted by that post, it truly had me laughing, but I know emotion can get lost in words on message boards).

I can only answer for myself but it was the LE's interest in the paddle/pedal boat that had me thinking about it. There are lots of scenarios that could involve a boat like that, especially as a lure or very short ride across the lake, but there are also many that have nothing to do with a boat other than LE asking about it. The scenarios not involving the boat seem much less complicated, for sure. I guess maybe I'm as stuck on the paddle/pedal boat as some are on the 'white van.' Which might mean LE is doing a really good job either with distraction, or getting the word out. Maybe. IMO.

 

[Jules71]

Thanks very much for the welcome!

Fortunately for me, I was not harmed. I sure feel sad for the kid that man did eventually get hold of, though. And the fact that he is a free man walking even today is infuriating (he spent almost 20 years in prison).

Definitely hope that LE has asked around (or will very soon!) to find out if Lyric and/or Elizabeth ever spoke of, or were seen with, an adult "friend". Not sure if it's common in that neighborhood for kids that young to be out riding bikes around town unsupervised (that doesn't really happen much where I live currently), but if it *is* common in the neighborhood the girls disappeared from, then other kids in the neighborhood may have answers they don't even know they have.

Very good point about asking other children about anyone who may be extra friendly or buy gifts or treats for kids. Scary. I am so glad you trusted your gut and didn't get in his car!

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2

 

[passionflower]

In my mind, i keep thinking a neighbor they know lured them into their house or car and took off with them?

 

[Sere-nity]

Didn't Elizabeth recently get a new dog?

I hope the law checked out who they got it from.

 

[otto]

And notice last seen at 12:05.

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2

Thanks ... here's the full notes (which I partially cropped in the image). I've been a little concerned from the beginning, but wanted to trust that investgators were methodically figuring out what happened.

"Lyric Cook was reported missing to the Evansdale Police Department (319-232-6682), in Evansdale on July 13, 2012. She was last seen about 12:05 p.m. wearing a lime green shirt with an animal print and flip flops. She has chin-length hair. Lyric has a mole on the back of her neck the size of a dime. Lyric and her 8-year-old cousin Elizabeth were riding bikes. Their bikes were found abandoned near Meyers Lake."

Now, I'm wondering if police swooped in at 4 on July 13, decided it was the same missing girl from the week before ... missing again ... daughter of meth addicts ... so they messed with the scene, handled and moved the bikes without gloves and without photographing the scene, allowed over 1000 untrained people to trample all through any potential crime scene, assumed that the children had run off, then assumed they drowned, then finally realized they were looking at an abduction and only then realized that everything they did from the beginning pretty much destroyed any evidence there may have been.

Police have stated that the girls could have been abducted elsewhere, but they haven't used tracking dogs to track their movements on July 13 from the Collin's home. Nope, they used tracking dogs at the lake to confirm that the bikes and purse ... you got it ... they belong to the missing girls. Police have now confirmed that objects belonging to the girls are at the lake, but the girls may not have been there. If this wasn't so sad, it would be a comedy. The dogs have indeed verified that the parents were truthful when they identified the bikes and purse as belonging to their children.

 

[nikb]

If they were "carried" off and they ceased to touch the ground, I believe the sent would stop.

Edit: But I don't actually know that. Just thinking that they have to be touching something (ground) to leave a scent

I have zero expertise in this other than what I've read in the last few weeks, mostly here and Google, but there's a lot of talk about dogs that have various types of specialties - air, trail/track, water, cadaver, etc. This may not be a totally reliable source but I found this: http://science.howstuffworks.com/environmental/life/zoology/mammals/sar-dog2.htm and it was pretty informative. (sorry if it's a repeat, I'm way behind again)

 

[MotherOcean]

Consider the paths the girls likely took, from the spot they were filmed down to that corner of the lake - over a mile away. Then factor in that the Carpenters BOTH seemed pretty aware not just of the girls riding by, but even of details ABOUT the girls, i.e. that Lizzie was chatty and friendly, because they were down there often. Why Lake Ave so often? What or who is on Lake Ave that they find reason to be near, knowing that they could travel straight down Evans, or either direction to the bike trail, to get to the same spot at the lake? Why take what seems to me to be a 1-block detour?
And if the Carpenters are seeing Lizzie enough to feel they can accurately assess her personality, living a mile from where Lizzie's caretakers assume she never goes, a perp could easily have had opportunity to see the same thing, to feel the same way. Then, over the last few days, another girl starts appearing with her.

Anyone living on their route, that they may have been interested in or known, would be of interest to LE, I should think.

I think this is so, so important. I know LE has never confirmed Mr. C's statement but I believe he is right about seeing them that day. I hope LE has been to every house on that street and talked to everyone. I wish LE would give us an update.

 

[Jules71]

Now, I'm wondering if police swooped in at 4 on July 13, decided it was the same missing girl from the week before ... missing again ... daughter of meth addicts ... so they messed with the scene, handled and moved the bikes without gloves and without photographing the scene, allowed over 1000 untrained people to trample all through any potential crime scene, assumed that the children had run off, then assumed they drowned, then finally realized they were looking at an abduction and only then realized that everything they did from the beginning pretty much destroyed any evidence there may have been.

SBM. I am afraid that is exactly what happened. Maybe not for the reason you mention but because they may be inexperienced at this type of situation.

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2

 

[Aunt B]

Just want to say thank you for sharing your personal story and that I am so glad your gut instinct kicked into high gear and you did not get in the car with that evil man!

Very good point about asking other children about anyone who may be extra friendly or buy gifts or treats for kids. Scary. I am so glad you trusted your gut and didn't get in his car!

Yes...as an adult, and a mother...it makes my blood run cold to think of how close I came to...who knows what? (shudder)

But for the grace of God go I, right?

I believe the probability is high that Lyric and Elizabeth ran into a similar situation. I sure hope local LE is questioning neighborhood kids.....children often know a lot more than we ever think they do.

 

[GrainneDhu]

Thanks ... here's the full notes (which I partially cropped in the image). I've been a little concerned from the beginning, but wanted to trust that investgators were methodically figuring out what happened.

"Lyric Cook was reported missing to the Evansdale Police Department (319-232-6682), in Evansdale on July 13, 2012. She was last seen about 12:05 p.m. wearing a lime green shirt with an animal print and flip flops. She has chin-length hair. Lyric has a mole on the back of her neck the size of a dime. Lyric and her 8-year-old cousin Elizabeth were riding bikes. Their bikes were found abandoned near Meyers Lake."

Now, I'm wondering if police swooped in at 4 on July 13, decided it was the same missing girl from the week before ... missing again ... daughter of meth addicts ... so they messed with the scene, handled and moved the bikes without gloves and without photographing the scene, allowed over 1000 untrained people to trample all through any potential crime scene, assumed that the children had run off, then assumed they drowned, then finally realized they were looking at an abduction and only then realized that everything they did from the beginning pretty much destroyed any evidence there may have been.

Police have stated that the girls could have been abducted elsewhere, but they haven't used tracking dogs to track their movements on July 13 from the Collin's home. Nope, they used tracking dogs at the lake to confirm that the bikes and purse ... you got it ... they belong to the missing girls. Police have now confirmed that objects belonging to the girls are at the lake, but the girls may not have been there. If this wasn't so sad, it would be a comedy. The dogs have indeed verified that the parents were truthful when they identified the bikes and purse as belonging to their children.

Seems unlikely to me because the initial premise (LE tired ot dealing with same family) is incorrect.

Lyric was missing in Waterloo, not Evansdale. She wasn't missing long enough for an official report to be made; she and her cousin KB walked in as MCM was on the telephone with the police.

While I suppose officers from Waterloo may have been gossiping with officers from Evansdale, it seems like a reach to think they would gossip about such a non-event as a kid who walks in the door while mom is on telephone to police.

Finally, we don't know that LE did not use dogs near the Collins home. LE hasn't commented and we don't have any other way to know. All we can really say is that the msm has not reported such an event.

 

[Bodhi]

I've been lurking occasionally since early on in this case, and wanted to catch up on all of the posts before commenting myself...but you guys/gals are too fast for me! Every time I finish a page (and I'm a speed-reader!) there are more at the end of the thread. So, I'll just jump in here if that's ok!

My thought is that these two girls, as others have suggested, were lured away by someone they had met on previous occasions, and with whom they felt comfortable (at least until things got weird, but by then it's often too late).

As a child, I was the victim of not just one, but TWO attempted abductions. One when I was 10, and one when I was 11. BOTH in broad daylight...the first literally occured in my own driveway, and the second on a busy street in the middle of town as I walked WITH A FRIEND on the sidewalk.

In the first case...the man (who was really only about 18 at the time), spent 2 weeks befriending me, "visiting" me at the park adjacent to my home every day. He first got my attention with his adorable little dog, Max, who was great at jumping to catch frisbees. This man put a lot of effort into making me think we were great friends, and that I was helping him SOOOO much by assisting in the design of the bandana that "Max" would wear in his next frisbee-catching competition. He brought me soda, he played basketball with me....totally unbeknownst to anyone in my family despite the fact that my front door was literally 500 feet away! This man, Mark, (he actually told me his real name...he is listed at the Megan's Law website...why?...because shortly after he tried to abduct me, he was arrested for raping/sodomizing some other poor child under 14 years of age that he managed to get his hands on), convinced me that we were friends. I looked forward to seeing him each day. In fact, I went into the park and *waited* for him in the mornings! The last day I saw him (before finding him on the Megan's Law website, that is), his car approached as I was standing in my driveway. He cheerily greeted me by name, all smiles, and excitedly said that he wanted to buy me some new markers for all of the artwork I'd been doing on Max's bandana. Hop in the car, he said....we'll go up to Newberry's (less than a mile from my home) and you can pick out the art supplies yourself!

I was a poor kid from a (very) broken home (even though we lived in a nice beachtown in southern California). New art supplies and a great (not to mention, handsome) buddy to hang out with was a dream come true for a girl like me. I took a step forward and immediately realized that "Max" was not in the car with Mark this time. For some reason, that terrified me, and I ran. As fast as I could go.

Had the dog been in the car, I believe I would have happily climbed right in.

Oh...and I *never* even mentioned any of this to my mother until I was about 35 years old. Just goes to show, that kids do some things we seriously don't understand sometimes.

The other incident was quite different, but it *was* an attempt by multiple men to take two girls at once, so I will describe it in a different post.

But of course, with my own history, I cannot HELP but wonder if anyone in the girls' families (or maybe even neighborhood friends?) might know if either of the girls had ever spoken of an adult "friend"...maybe someone with a "really cute dog"...someone that several neighborhood children might know of, but who has never been convicted of anything so wouldn't be an RSO. Or perhaps, someone who had ever "paid" them for cleaning their yards, bringing their mail up, etc.???

Welcome, Aunt B, and great post! So glad you decided not to get in the car!

Your experience with a young adult grooming you is along the lines I'd been thinking--that it was someone that one of the girls was familiar with. Lyric's brother is 16 and IIRC the girls have mutual cousins who are in their late teens. So one or both may not have been wary of young adults. It's possible one or both wanted to emulate or be accepted by someone that age.

My boys at those ages were the opposite. They had little contact with boys in their late teens/early 20s. We visited my brother who lives and the kids meet their very tall 18 and 21 year old cousins for the first time. My boys hung on their cousins every word, and the cousins couldn't have been nicer to them. But my kids were still very wary. They were fine with my brother, who is close to my husband in age and size, but they didn't know what to make of these tall young men.

Lyric and possibly Elizabeth had experience being around young men and that may have made it possible for an abductor to approach them and gain their confidence, like your "friend" almost succeeded doing with you, Aunt B.

 

[otto]

Consider the paths the girls likely took, from the spot they were filmed down to that corner of the lake - over a mile away. Then factor in that the Carpenters BOTH seemed pretty aware not just of the girls riding by, but even of details ABOUT the girls, i.e. that Lizzie was chatty and friendly, because they were down there often. Why Lake Ave so often? What or who is on Lake Ave that they find reason to be near, knowing that they could travel straight down Evans, or either direction to the bike trail, to get to the same spot at the lake? Why take what seems to me to be a 1-block detour?

And if the Carpenters are seeing Lizzie enough to feel they can accurately assess her personality, living a mile from where Lizzie's caretakers assume she never goes, a perp could easily have had opportunity to see the same thing, to feel the same way. Then, over the last few days, another girl starts appearing with her.

Anyone living on their route, that they may have been interested in or known, would be of interest to LE, I should think.

I don't know of anything really out of the ordinary. No new factories, a few construction sites in the area, etc. About average, I think. Sure there are community colleges, UNI, John Deere, etc. Also PFG Best was just exposed recently as a huge ponzi scheme.

Last night I was looking at the possibility that the girls regularly traveled to the lake and back ... this is one possible route

 

[azuredewdrop]

Thanks ... here's the full notes (which I partially cropped in the image). I've been a little concerned from the beginning, but wanted to trust that investgators were methodically figuring out what happened.

"Lyric Cook was reported missing to the Evansdale Police Department (319-232-6682), in Evansdale on July 13, 2012. She was last seen about 12:05 p.m. wearing a lime green shirt with an animal print and flip flops. She has chin-length hair. Lyric has a mole on the back of her neck the size of a dime. Lyric and her 8-year-old cousin Elizabeth were riding bikes. Their bikes were found abandoned near Meyers Lake."

Now, I'm wondering if police swooped in at 4 on July 13, decided it was the same missing girl from the week before ... missing again ... daughter of meth addicts ... so they messed with the scene, handled and moved the bikes without gloves and without photographing the scene, allowed over 1000 untrained people to trample all through any potential crime scene, assumed that the children had run off, then assumed they drowned, then finally realized they were looking at an abduction and only then realized that everything they did from the beginning pretty much destroyed any evidence there may have been.

Police have stated that the girls could have been abducted elsewhere, but they haven't used tracking dogs to track their movements on July 13 from the Collin's home. Nope, they used tracking dogs at the lake to confirm that the bikes and purse ... you got it ... they belong to the missing girls. Police have now confirmed that objects belonging to the girls are at the lake, but the girls may not have been there. If this wasn't so sad, it would be a comedy. The dogs have indeed verified that the parents were truthful when they identified the bikes and purse as belonging to their children.

Yes..I have been saying this for awhile! My theory is that is exactly what happened. Especially after listening to the archived scanner audio from that day. While we can't discuss what was said, maybe I can at least say this..my impression (and granted they took a lot to private channel, so this is my own opinion here) is that they thought they were looking for some kids who lost track of time or ran away etc. Again...just my opinion.

 

[MotherOcean]

I really hope this is not the "evidence" leading LE to believe they are still alive because at this point it is very very weak.... likelihood of them being killed at the location of abduction is very low. Likelihood later, much higher. IMO

Whatever evidence they had was only described as "physical evidence".

http://wcfcourier.com/news/evansdal...ca-d2b1-11e1-8f0b-0019bb2963f4.html?cid=print

snipped -

Police will only say that “physical evidence” was found relating to the girls, but wouldn’t say if it was found by police, the dive teams or by the search dogs brought in to canvass the area near Meyers Lake, where the two went missing July 13.

 

[otto]

The property has been for sale, perhaps it sold.

My mistake ... I just double checked ... the last name does start with a W ... I was looking at the neighbor's property before. Sorry.

 

[azuredewdrop]

Seems unlikely to me because the initial premise (LE tired ot dealing with same family) is incorrect.

Lyric was missing in Waterloo, not Evansdale. She wasn't missing long enough for an official report to be made; she and her cousin KB walked in as MCM was on the telephone with the police.

While I suppose officers from Waterloo may have been gossiping with officers from Evansdale, it seems like a reach to think they would gossip about such a non-event as a kid who walks in the door while mom is on telephone to police.

Finally, we don't know that LE did not use dogs near the Collins home. LE hasn't commented and we don't have any other way to know. All we can really say is that the msm has not reported such an event.

I don't think they would have necessarily known about the previous incident enough to take that in to account but rather this...parents call the police to locate kids who haven't come home on time all the time (read the scanner threads you'll see it happens daily). Most of the time it is because a kid lost track of time, wandered to a different location than where they were supposed to be, or a kid was simply being rebellious. But they find those kids (usually). I think that LE initially treated the call the way they start off handling those calls with the expectation that it will likely end up with the usual happy reunion. How often do you think they've had an actual abduction in Evansdale?

 

[roseofsharon]

Last night I was looking at the possibility that the girls regularly traveled to the lake and back ... this is one possible route

Well looking at this map, there is no way, if the cctv (Cornbelt Auctions) captured the girls on their bikes at 12:19 p.m. that TG saw the bikes at the trail at approx. 12:20 p.m. Those bikes must have been someone elses. (Adjusted time due to CA's cctv being 8 minutes slow).

Question for Ollipop: How many washrooms are scattered throughout the park. TIA

imo

 

[otto]

Seems unlikely to me because the initial premise (LE tired ot dealing with same family) is incorrect.

Lyric was missing in Waterloo, not Evansdale. She wasn't missing long enough for an official report to be made; she and her cousin KB walked in as MCM was on the telephone with the police.

While I suppose officers from Waterloo may have been gossiping with officers from Evansdale, it seems like a reach to think they would gossip about such a non-event as a kid who walks in the door while mom is on telephone to police.

Finally, we don't know that LE did not use dogs near the Collins home. LE hasn't commented and we don't have any other way to know. All we can really say is that the msm has not reported such an event.

We do know that the police have listed Lyric's official height on the Iowa missing persons website as 5'11". Perhaps they are impeccably professional in all other aspects of their work.

 

[Jules71]

Does anyone know if TG was riding east or west and which location he may have stopped at to use the restroom? Maybe they saw him on cctv at Casey's on River Forest if that is where he stopped.

I really believe Breault was referring to him when she talked about the runner. I think she just didn't want to draw too much attention to cyclist TG.

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2

 

[Sere-nity]

Well looking at this map, there is no way, if the cctv (Cornbelt Auctions) captured the girls on their bikes at 12:19 p.m. that TG saw the bikes at the trail at approx. 12:20 p.m. Those bikes must have been someone elses. (Adjusted time due to CA's cctv being 8 minutes slow).

Question for Ollipop: How many washrooms are scattered throughout the park. TIA

imo

If I were a kid, I would cut across the grass to the path instead of going all the way down Arbutus to the path.