IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #14

[Bootsctr]

Right. It was said they asked to go for a bike ride at 11:30. So maybe they did go down by Mr. C's house and he saw them around 12. Then they headed back and were on the cctv at 12:11-12:19 and THEN something happened. I keep going back to either it is not the girls on the cctv or TG did not see the girls bikes. It seems close to impossible for both to be true.

We have tried taking TG out of the timeline - but what if we take the cctv sighting out of the timeline? LE may have put that out there because they know it is NOT the girls on the video and they want someone to come forward. I can't get over the dark colored shirts on the video.

Maybe the girls headed out at 11:30 - ended up down by Mr. C's around noon - headed back home, dropped their bikes in the driveway, and then a couple teens took off on the bikes and ended up at the lake trail where TG saw the bikes but no girls. Those teens would be the ones who had a minor or unintended part in this - and who LE wants to come forward. I cannot explain where the girls are with this scenario because they made it home - but maybe someone known to them pulled up in a car and said it's time to go - hop in.

ETA: It doesn't have to be teens, it could be anyone. The bike Lyric was riding was a mountain bike. So maybe it was an adult and a teen or child. Maybe it was an adult and a 14 or 16 year old kid. Maybe it was a small adult man who looks like a punk kid.

I wanted to add I agree with Mr. C too and that he was probably pretty sure because he watered the lawn regularly and I bet about the same time every day. He was sure, but then the wife interjected her opinion. I have learned over many years of marriage that when I tend to correct my husband it is I that is often wrong. I believe Mr. C was correct in saying 12:00 to 1:00 as around the time he saw the girls, probably closer to 12:00.

 

[ROM828]

Media, ppl. following the case, WS, etc. all have a certain group that DO want them smiling, because it, at the very least, gives them a scapegoat on where to place blame.

They see them smile and think "Yep, NO HUMAN BEING could EVER smile at a time like this, they must be guilty"

except 99% of those ppl have NEVER and WILL NEVER experience something like they have so we can't say how anyone should feel or react.

Smiling, crying, laughing, etc.....are all part of the grieving process. You have to be aware that regardless of what is happening on the outside, inside they are devastated and will be until they know what has happened. Anyone 'analyzing' pictures of the family and drawing conclusions and making assumptions is reckless at the very least.

 

[Confusion]

I realy hate when people do this, but I'm going to just respond to a bunch of comments on different posts without going back and quoting each of them. Sorry if that bothers anyone, but I have enough trouble keeping up when I read each post once, and every time I try going back to find one to quote, I end up getting behind by a couple pages again.

What Misty is wearing does look like a sweat patch, I've worn nicotine patches and several dying friends and relatives wore drug patches, and neither looked like what she's wearing. I think it's a good sign for her if she's wearing one and not being arrested for drug use.

As far as family smiling at the vigil (and other places) goes. We recently had benefits for a few relatives who are dying from cancer. The one in particular looked like a great party for all if you look at the pictures from it. Even the 30 year old mother of 2 small children who is dying from cancer and scared to death about what will happen to her kids (11 and 4 years old, and she's expected to die within a year) was smiling in every picture taken of her at her benefit. There were dozens taken of her with her only sister or with her kids, and everybody had big smiles in all of them. When cameras weren't pointed at them, every one of them left for a while at least a few times to cry alone. Kara, the mother, wants her children to look back at her life and see nothing but love and happiness rather than feeling bad about her pain and suffering.

When I zoomed on the photo of the lake, I also saw a log or tree stump, but my eyesight isn't the greatest.

Another thing about the smiling pictures. I have seen several of Heather smiling, or at least not looking like she'd recently cried. However, I've also read that she needs another surgery on her heart, but the doctors say she can't have it now because of the stress she's under. Just because she has health issues (rather than a drug history), I don't believe it makes her grief any more real than that of her sisters smiling with her. I believe they're all hurting and want those girls home.

Bootsctr, I hope you're dealing with the pain ok, everybody always assumes they'll go before their children, and it's extremely hard when it doesn't work out that way. I hope you have a strong support system,

 

[Bootsctr]

Don't forget that Somer Thompson's mom was BASHED by the public for her choice of clothing, and she also smiled when on camera. Jessica Lunsford's family was BASHED and accused outright. And of course, let's not forget the Susan Smith, who cried and begged and pleaded.

Does Misty's demeanor seem odd to me? I don't know, from everything I've heard that's just the way she is. We need to keep in mind that Lyric was never really with her, the impression I've gotten is Misty was more like a close aunt than her bio mom.

Do I think the family directly did anything to either of these girls? Nope.
Do I think someone who knew either family could have done something to the girls? Possibly.
Do I think the family knows where the girls are? Nope.
Do I think they have some idea of who could have done this? Maybe.
Do I think LE has a idea of what happened? I sure hope so.

In this one picture of Heather, yes she has a smile on her face. This is of course MOO, but I don't think she looks very happy behind that smile.

MOO. MOO, so please nobody get snarky about MOO.

I nominate you for post of the day! :rocker:

 

[Simp]

Don't forget that Somer Thompson's mom was BASHED by the public for her choice of clothing, and she also smiled when on camera. Jessica Lunsford's family was BASHED and accused outright. And of course, let's not forget the Susan Smith, who cried and begged and pleaded.

Does Misty's demeanor seem odd to me? I don't know, from everything I've heard that's just the way she is. We need to keep in mind that Lyric was never really with her, the impression I've gotten is Misty was more like a close aunt than her bio mom.

Do I think the family directly did anything to either of these girls? Nope.
Do I think someone who knew either family could have done something to the girls? Possibly.
Do I think the family knows where the girls are? Nope.
Do I think they have some idea of who could have done this? Maybe.
Do I think LE has a idea of what happened? I sure hope so.

In this one picture of Heather, yes she has a smile on her face. This is of course MOO, but I don't think she looks very happy behind that smile.

MOO. MOO, so please nobody get snarky about MOO.

I AGREE!!!! And I would like to add my own,,,
Do I think the girls were at the lake? Yes
Do I think TG saw the girls' bikes? Yes
Do I think the girls were already abducted when TG saw the bikes? I doubt it
Do I think anything was "staged"? No
Do I think things happened fast, really fast? Heck Yeah

MOO. MOO, so please nobody get snarky about MOO.
LOL

 

[Bootsctr]

Perhaps for the first time in a long time, the family felt comforted by the community support- and joy in the LE belief that the children are probably still alive.Usually when when kids go missing near water, it is because they drowned. It must have been tremendous relief to have confirmation that the girls were not in the lake.

I agree! As a child, water had a mystical, magical appeal. If the lake had not been drained it would have hung over the family and community like a dark cloud.

 

[Bootsctr]

Thank you Confusion! I enjoyed your comments very much and I appreciate what you said. Yes, it was given I always thought I would go before him. It is a day by day, hour by hour and sometimes minute by minute situation. He was my only child. I will never have grandchildren. I hope that I am able to fill a need in someone's life who might need a grandmother at some point.

 

[TxLady2]

Great points! I think if the media wants to snap a picture that would lead the public to think one way or the other, it is very possible to do that and likely what might be going on with this family. I think of Darlie Routier on death row. I do not know if she is guilty or innocent. She is sitting on death row. I do know that the infamous footage of her at graveside celebrating one of the boy's birthdays with silly string and her laughing was filmed by media that was hiding in the bushes and that this footage was after a long period of Darlie crying. It was misleading in my opinion. A lot of evidence did not make it into the trial, but somehow this footage did. I happen to believe media has a lot of power in being able to sway public opinion especially in these kinds of cases.

I remember that, and it's one of the things that made me not trust the media in most cases. They have certainly influenced the public's POV in a few others I could mention as well. My son often says that the media can be LE's best friend... or their worst enemy. A lot of them are so biased in the way they present a story, and how it's edited. They may do an hour long interview but edit out all but a few minutes. Then the parts they do show, when taken out of context, give the public an inaccurate picture of what was actually said and what it was in response to. Totally unfair!

 

[Bootsctr]

Going to go for a bit and repot some plants. Will be back later as always to read everyone's amazing comments.... always hoping to read the girls have been found and are safe! :heartbeat:

 

[Ollipop]

In my case, it is not that I 'want' to see them smiling. It is that I am surprised when I do see them looking so happy. I never said they should be sobbing uncontrollably 24/7. But how long is a vigil?

And a month later, it makes sense they would be getting some normalcy. But in the first few days, when we FIRST saw MCM, she was already smiling and grinning her way through her interviews. I just find it really odd and awkward. It does not mean I think she harmed the girls. It just seems very strange and I point it out because it is so different from what I usually see when a kid goes missing.

I don't mean to say that people outwardly and consciously enjoy seeing the family smiling (altho I've seen comments on FB from people expressing relief in seeing the family find a reason to smile), but that its more on a subconscious level. Seeing the family smiling reinforces many people's concerns and suspicions. It satisfies the public's voracious appetite for juicy gossip, as evidenced by how well tabloid garbage sells. I think some people want to be right in their theory that the "drug-riddled family" was behind it all along, partly because its easier than considering that there are dark, evil, dangerous strangers out there stalking, stealing, and/or killing children.

 

[Jules71]

Maybe the only reason Elizabeth was taken along with Lyric is so it would throw suspicion off of the real perp(s). Because then people would say so-and-so could not have done this because they would have never taken E.

----

I don't know if I can post anymore - because it is getting more difficult to not be able to explore other possibilities that are against TOS. I find myself getting ticked off about the whole situation and I want to scream! I hope people do not get offended by this - it is MOO

I don't abuse alcohol because I choose not to
I don't do drugs because I choose not to
I don't get involved in criminal activity because I choose not to
I don't associate with criminals because I choose not to
I don't live with my parents because I choose to make responsible choices
No one else is raising my kids because I choose to make responsible choices
Life is about choices - and it's time for people to grow up and do the right thing!

Stop abusing drugs and alcohol and getting in trouble with the law - it is very distracting to what has happened here and hard to separate out what is related and what isn't.

 

[MotherOcean]

If it is a dog, which I also initially thought it was, then it is a perfect working dog because it camouflages well..

I thought it looked exactly like the rump of my neighbor's dog. He's a black Scottish terrier. But, now I don't think it's a dog.

 

[Confusion]

Maybe the only reason Elizabeth was taken along with Lyric is so it would throw suspicion off of the real perp(s). Because then people would say so-and-so could not have done this because they would have never taken E.

----

SBM
People seem to favor that idea a lot, but isn't it just as possible that the roles are reversed? Maybe someone (who knew, or knew about, the families) wanted Elizabeth, for obvious reasons or something else, and took Lyric too because they knew everyone would suspect it had something to do with her parents.

 

[Sunlight]

There is only one truth. We may never know what it is.

 

[Ollipop]

I should add that I don't consider myself more immune to the need for gossip than anyone else. Its probably part of the reason I ever stumbled onto WS in the first place. I've been told I can be overly empathetic. I have been told I critique myself harder than most, so I wonder if this isn't me judging me, lol.

Sometimes I wish I didn't care. Sometimes I wish I didn't pick my own thoughts apart, or the thoughts of others.

I also know from experience, that people who've experienced "rock bottom," as I suspect some in this family have in the past, don't/won't ever show that level of emotion again. Additionally, there is a demon that has haunted this family too long, that has the power to almost turn off emotions altogether, permanently.

It sucks. Just last night we had a customer at work who was clearly under the influence of this very demon. Annoyed at first, then angry, I eventually just felt sorry for her, as she sat, alone after upsetting almost everyone that she was trying so hard to make friends with, head down, clearly "coming down," and knowing that tomorrow was going to be a very difficult day, and that likely in her mind the best remedy would be hair of the dog. I went from wanting to slap her to wanting to hug her in just a few hours.

Unfortunately I recognize that she is in trouble until she views herself in the way that I did, as desperately needing help. Sigh.

 

[Marilynilpa]

Maybe the only reason Elizabeth was taken along with Lyric is so it would throw suspicion off of the real perp(s). Because then people would say so-and-so could not have done this because they would have never taken E.

----

I don't know if I can post anymore - because it is getting more difficult to not be able to explore other possibilities that are against TOS. I find myself getting ticked off about the whole situation and I want to scream! I hope people do not get offended by this - it is MOO

I don't abuse alcohol because I choose not to
I don't do drugs because I choose not to
I don't get involved in criminal activity because I choose not to
I don't associate with criminals because I choose not to
I don't live with my parents because I choose to make responsible choices
No one else is raising my kids because I choose to make responsible choices
Life is about choices - and it's time for people to grow up and do the right thing!

Stop abusing drugs and alcohol and getting in trouble with the law - it is very distracting to what has happened here and hard to separate out what is related and what isn't.

:goodpost:

 

[Beyond Belief]

Were there any searches scheduled for today?

 

[Aunt B]

Good thought.

To take it further, look also at former employees, particularly people who were hired on probation and did not make it out of the probationary period because they could not work effectively with other employees.

I thought the same exact thing.

You know, when we were kids, we "knew" a lot people who worked in our neighborhood. There was Mike the mailman (who knew all of us kids by name and the names of our dogs, too), the guys who worked at the motorhome dealership on the corner, Sean the punkrocker at the liquor store, the guys at the satellite shop who used to let us come in and hang out for HOURS *in the back office, no less*, the employees at the bowling alley, Dominoes pizza, etc.

Granted, in our kid minds, we "knew" somebody once we met them and learned their names...if they didn't freak us out in that first encounter, we considered them to be OK. Most kids are the same way.

And this was in a mid-sized city in Southern CA in the mid 80's...it's not like it was...Mayberry in the 40's. Most of the kids on my street were children of single, working parents. And we were supervised almost not at all. Our parents knew NOTHING about the interactions we had with all of these people in the businesses of our neighborhood.

It's not really something you have to consider with children who are monitored every single second of their lives....but it is clear that Lyric and Elizabeth were allowed to run off by themselves on a regular basis without any adult supervision (and I'm not being accusatory with that statement...I have no doubts that their family wishes now that they'd never let them out of their sight), to places that their adult relatives had no idea they were going.

I wonder about other "workers" in, say, a mile and half circumfrence of the home, too. ie: convenience store workers, gas station employees...heck we even wandered into freaking TIRE shops as kids, simply out of boredom on a Summer's day. I can think of a hundred times I could have easily disappeared when with one of those neighborhood employees I mentioned earlier (particularly the guys at the satellite shop - and WTH we were doing hanging out THERE I *still* have no idea...goes to prove that unsupervised kids who really need adult attention and interaction will do some very foolish things to obtain it...). And the worst part is...the kind of people who would do a child harm can recognize those types of kids in a heartbeat.

I still think kids in the neighborhood who knew the girls might be where the answers are. Because kids know what the other kids are doing. If L and E went into the same shop just to *hang out* on more than one occasion...other kids in the neighborhood are probably the most likely ones to know about it.

Just my opinion.

 

[MotherOcean]

I completely agree with everything you said above. However, imo, there is a big difference between losing a loved one, to a tragic death, and having urgently, endangered MISSING children. JMO

When my good friend lost her 7 yr old to cancer, we reminisced and smiled at stories and memories as well. But she had the solace of knowing where her child was buried and what had happened at the end, and that she had done everything to make her as comfortable as she could.

Not the same thing as her girl being missing under mysterious circumstances. Sorry, but I cannot get past the big huge grins and happy smiles at all of the vigils and Mexican restaurants. I just don't get it.

I don't want to bash the family. I don't think they are responsible for what has happened and I know they must have some very, very fearful moments. But, I don't get it either. I lost a friendship awhile back that was extremely important to me and I literally could not stop crying for four months. There were many days that I could barely drag myself out of bed. I deeply grieved and the person I was grieving over was alive and well. (I'm happy to say the relationship was restored. To God be the glory.) I think of what these little girls may be enduring right now and I just shudder. WHATEVER the situation, this is a tragedy for them. I saw a post that Lyric had written to MCM on MCM's FB page where she told her mom that she loves her!! Regardless to anything else at all, these little girls love their families and they should be home with them. I have thought that the family is displaying a lot of peace because of their religious faith. I do believe that faith brings a peace in the face of despair. Their church preference reflects a hyper-spiritualism that is highly focused on seeing everything that happens in one's life as being God's perfect will. Even attacks of the Devil are God's will to accomplish something good in your life. The Vineyard churches are as charismatic as you can get. There is "holy laughter" that is supposed to be evidence of the Holy Spirit's presence. There is a strong focus on "speaking things into being". They are highly emotional gatherings even when everything is "normal". I think that influence may explain a little bit about the family's reactions to what has happened. I know this, Mr. Collins was a broken man in one of the interviews that I just watched of him from the first couple of days.

 

[palaminodee]

Were there any searches scheduled for today?

not that I am aware of, however a group on the FB page said they are going to search today, just their own search, I would guess that to be accurate since they wrote it themselves.