IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #14

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Exactly!!! Does not fit. Mistaken, different bikes or lying.

:eek:

Why would he lie?

Motive?

It fits exactly.

I will get busy with maps etc to show you but it has all been posted before.

8 minutes fits PERFECTLY...it's not just do-able, it is scary how well it fits.
 
I don't see this conflict?

He was 2 blocks and a bit of grass from where the bikes were found.

If he saw the girls at, say, 12.05 that gives a full 15 minutes before TG saw the bikes?

The cctv sighting has been placed (unofficially) as 8 minutes from TG's sighting of the bikes...they only biked 1 mile in 8 minutes which someone pointed out, is brisk walking pace?

TG only ever said he saw the bikes AROUND 12.20....he was not exact.

the cctv was at 12:11 plus 8 minutes. that is 12:19 if we can trust the info. Even if TG was off by serveral minutes it does not fit. And its more like 1.5 miles not 1 mile. they likely stopped at some point for traffic or intersections
 
Do we actually know that Mr. C watered for the entire three hours between 12 and 3? Do we even know he was watering his lawn? Perhaps he went out to water shrubs etc sometime between 12 and 3. I have a sprinkler system for my lawns but I do go out and soak shrubs, trees, etc. I don't remember hearing that he was actually out in the front yard for three hours, just that sometime between 12 and 3 he was watering. JMO MOO

Over here, "watering" your yard may just be a matter of moseying on out to the tap, turning it on, setting the timer, and going back to the soaps.
 
How do we know the C's watered their lawn for the entire three hours?

Maybe Mr. C watered only intermittently during the three hour period.

Moo

I rather doubt the lawn is ever watered. First, we're talking about a rental property, and why would anyone pay out of pocket to water someone else's lawn for hours. Secondly, an aerial view shows tire tracks in a loop on the lawn, suggesting that the owners of the property (at the time the aerial photo was taken) use the lawn for routinely turning their vehicles around so they can exit the driveway. I don't see a single shrub or tree on the property, but I do see a lot of barren dirt. Someone that drives on the lawn isn't going to water it ... are they?
 
I don't know why people are so keen to discredit Mr C and Mr G?

Their times fit perfectly, IMO, and they have exactly ZERO reason (that we know of) to lie/tell LE something false?

Further, Mr P, owner of cctv, states there were only TWO cyclists on his street that day...our girls.

This implies to me that it is either a very quiet part of town, OR a very quiet town, full stop.

Also that Mr C is unlikely to have mistaken two other bike riders, as there WERE no other bike riders in that part of town that day?

:moo:

BBM

Mr C lives in the direct opposite direction of where the girls were riding their bike in town. Collins' in the NW and the C's in the SE part of town. The girls may have been the only bikers on Brovan St, but not in the whole town. Here's map:

http://binged.it/N5aKpc
 
I love the explanation of your logic, classic! I tend to think in a similar fashion.

Off topic comment: I am shocked to hear about the water bill issue. I live in California and we just pay a flat fee for our water and sewage. Weird!

BBM
Oh I wish I paid a flat fee. I live in California too, but have to pay by usage :maddening:
Sorry for the ot....
 
I have migraines and pretty much just have to settle for aspirin because

1. my doctors will not prescribe "drugs of addiction" and
2. the chemist makes you feel like a damn criminal if you ask for something stronger.

It makes me so angry that a few druggies have ruined my access to decent medication.

:maddening:

I hear you. My daughter has ADHD and over the last 18 months I have had to phone around town every single month trying to find a pharmacy that carries her meds because of severe shortages.

My understanding is that rampant abuse of stimulant meds had caused the FDA to restrict production and distribution of certain meds. ( Although I have also heard conflicting stories that the pharm companies themselves have caused the shortage in response to the patent expirations on some drugs, giving generics the lion's share of the market).

Whatever the case, I have been made to feel like a junkie criminal on more than one occasion whilst trying to have my child's prescriptions filled. Sucks. :(
 
BBM

Mr C lives in the direct opposite direction of where the girls were riding their bike in town. Collins' in the NW and the C's in the SE part of town. The girls may have been the only bikers on Brovan St, but not in the whole town. Here's map:

http://binged.it/N5aKpc

Absolutely agree, and locals may be able to tell us if cycling is common around town.

I believe we have already hashed this one out and the consensus is, it is a quiet town, and the most likely route the girls took is down S Evans.

There is a map floating about on here which shows their route as the LONG way...not sure why or how this has come about.

It is my opinion the girls were cycling fast, on a mission of some sort, went straight down S Evans at least for half the way, then to Lake Tce where Mr C saw them, then straight onto Arbutus then the lake.

8 minutes fits perfectly.
 
I hear you. My daughter has ADHD and over the last 18 months I have had to phone around town every single month trying to find a pharmacy that carries her meds because of severe shortages.

My understanding is that rampant abuse of stimulant meds had caused the FDA to restrict production and distribution of certain meds. ( Although I have also heard conflicting stories that the pharm companies themselves have caused the shortage in response to the patent expirations on some drugs, giving generics the lion's share of the market).

Whatever the case, I have been made to feel like a junkie criminal on more than one occasion whilst trying to have my child's prescriptions filled. Sucks. :(

ugh! We ran in this with one of our kiddos ADHD meds (probably same one). Thank goodness we live in a large metro so there are more pharmacies to harass.

(sorry for the OT)
 
My neighbor is in her 80s and covets our green grass. Bless her, but she waters at noon and now has burned brown blades. I have to agree with you that old school wins out with her, over cost of evaporation and the 'glass' effect of the sun hitting the wet grass.

I had an elderley neighbour (deceased now) who was so fanatical about his lawn we used to say we lived next door to the only green lawn in the street (in summer) because it was true.

He used to own a nursery and watered at night.

He also used to clip the damn thing with nail scissors, I'm sure.
 
Doesn't Mr. C live on a corner? Is it possible he saw the girls pass just as the cctv captured their image? He said they were traveling fast.

ETA: Never mind. I see HollyBlue's post regarding opposite direction.
 
Do we actually know that Mr. C watered for the entire three hours between 12 and 3? Do we even know he was watering his lawn? Perhaps he went out to water shrubs etc sometime between 12 and 3. I have a sprinkler system for my lawns but I do go out and soak shrubs, trees, etc. I don't remember hearing that he was actually out in the front yard for three hours, just that sometime between 12 and 3 he was watering. JMO MOO

It doesn't ring true for me that Elizabeth rode her bike by the house every night and that she stopped to talk with people. That's not what we've heard in other reports. I recall that Elizabeth had ridden her bike once to the lake with the neighbor children, but she was typically not allowed to ride to the lake. If Elizabeth stopped and talked with people every night, why haven't others come forward with the same information?

"Carpenter, who lives north of the lake, said he saw the girls between 12 and 3 p.m. while he was outside watering his yard.

"I was out watering my yard between 12 and 3:00 and the girls rode their bikes right by our house," Carpenter said.

...

"I broke down for the first time because I was so used to, especially Elizabeth, seeing her every night ride her bicycle and she always stopped and talked to people. She was a friendly little girl," Marcella Carpenter said. "You know, it's hard when you've got a grandchild the same age."

http://www.kwqc.com/story/19044405/witness-said-he-saw-missing-iowa-girls-after-their-disappearance
 
ugh! We ran in this with one of our kiddos ADHD meds (probably same one). Thank goodness we live in a large metro so there are more pharmacies to harass.

(sorry for the OT)

I have to chemist shop.

It's freakin insane.

Blind Freddy can tell I'm not a junkie.
 
My first question regarding TG was why didn't he think anything was hinky? There is no place to go between two fences in that 10' wide isolated area besides the behind the gate. I would have first been pizzed about the bike on the trial and stopped to move it against the fence for courtesy to others. All the while, looking for the persons responsible for it. <snipped for space>

I probably wouldn't think anything of it either other than being irritated the bikes were on the path.

And much's I hate to say this, being that he's a male by himself and it was obvious that at least one of the bikes belonged to a young girl, he might even be afraid to stop. I rarely think about it but my husband said he's constantly cautious around kids, especially little girls he doesn't know. Would you really want to be the guy that found the girls just having fun playing, and then what? You're now a stranger alone with two little girls... what do you do? Scold them for leaving their bikes on the trail? Let them know you were just making sure they were ok? As a kid either one would freak me out. Of course if you found them in trouble it'd be a whole different story, but I can see why he'd be cautious even if he DID find it a little odd.
 
Absolutely agree, and locals may be able to tell us if cycling is common around town.

I believe we have already hashed this one out and the consensus is, it is a quiet town, and the most likely route the girls took is down S Evans.

There is a map floating about on here which shows their route as the LONG way...not sure why or how this has come about.

It is my opinion the girls were cycling fast, on a mission of some sort, went straight down S Evans at least for half the way, then to Lake Tce where Mr C saw them, then straight onto Arbutus then the lake.

8 minutes fits perfectly.

google maps lists it at 1.2 miles not counting the trail behind the lake...where r you getting 8 minutes? the cctv has it at 12:19 and TG says he saw the bikes at 12:20. not saying your wrong just trying to understand the timeline
 
I rather doubt the lawn is ever watered. First, we're talking about a rental property, and why would anyone pay out of pocket to water someone else's lawn for hours. Secondly, an aerial view shows tire tracks in a loop on the lawn, suggesting that the owners of the property (at the time the aerial photo was taken) use the lawn for routinely turning their vehicles around so they can exit the driveway. I don't see a single shrub or tree on the property, but I do see a lot of barren dirt. Someone that drives on the lawn isn't going to water it ... are they?

This seems like we're getting awfully close to sleuthing this man, IMO.

I have lived in rental houses my entire adult life and have always treated them as if they were my own homes, including doing all of the lawn maintenance/watering. Most of the other renters in my neighborhood do the same.

Also, do we know when the aerial photo was taken?

Finally, if the yard was in such bad shape, I believe LE would have been very suspicious of the watering story. To date, there has been no indication by LE or FBI that they have any doubts about Mr. C's story.
 
Not being the person in the situation it is easy to say "I would do this ...". I know that I have found myself in a few situations and surprised myself in how I handled things because I ended up handling them differently than I would have expected until being in the situation.

I think that most of the time people don't get involved, even when things seem odd. Watch that show "what would you do?" and you'll see that even in extreme situations this is often the case.

BBM

My reactions (non-reactions) are just one of many reasons why I'd hate to be in the place of one of the family or friends. I've been told that I'm an odd mixture of cold and sensitive.

People are always saying that I'm one of the warmest and friendliest people they know, but I've also been told many times that I'm one of the least emotional or excitable people they know.

Some examples: when I was 12, I woke up at about 6:00am to find a drunk man I'd never seen before sitting on my bed. I was confused, but I sat and talked to him for over 1/2 hour before I stood up and ran from my room to my mother's to get her (not because I was scared, but because I had no idea where the house he was supposedly looking for was.) The guy was gone before we got back to my room, but my mother was freaking out. We eventually found out later that day that he was the ex-husband of the woman upstairs. He had threatened to kill her and was just released from prison (for assault and attempted murder of his mother), and had robbed the gun and sporting goods store the night before stealing a couple guns and a bunch of ammo. We lived in a duplex, and my bed happened to be right in front of the door that led to an interior stairway to the upstairs unit.

I was raped 3 times as a teen. At 14 by a friend's older brother, at 16 by my boyfriend's twin brother and at 18 by a "nice guy" we met at a wedding dance/reception and my mother insisted that I accept a ride home from...she thought it was time I spent time with some respectable people for a change! I never screamed or cried during any of them, and never reported any (my family had me pretty well convinced that if anything like that ever happened it would be because I had asked for it, and nobody'd believe me anyway...even with all the bruises the 3rd time)

I have been to more funerals in my life than most people have been to parties. All 4 grandparents, both parents, most of my aunts and uncles, and well over 100 people I considered to be friends at one time. A lot were from cancer or other 'natural' causes, a lot were from car accidents, but one was murdered by her ex-husband, 3 were shot by friends/acquaintences, 1 was shot by a family member, 3 committed suicide, 3 were murdered by unknown people, and a variety of others. I have never shed a tear at one of the funerals I've been to, and almost never at home - definitely not in public.

I have no doubt that I'd be worried sick if it were one of my kids or any other kid I'm close to, but I think I'd be lynched here and probably in the media if I were ever questioned about the disappearance of one. Even my son asked me one time (he was about 10), "Mom, why is it that the more something bothers you, the more jokes you make about it?" I've also had friends walk up to me and ask if me if the person I was talking to was going to be needing a blood towel. When the person asked what they meant, they'd say, "From that smile on her face, I'd say she's going to deck you any minute."

Too late to make a long story short, but anyway - not only is it hard to know what you'd do in a given situation, but it's also hard to know what someone else has gone through to account for their actions in that same situation.
 
I rather doubt the lawn is ever watered. First, we're talking about a rental property, and why would anyone pay out of pocket to water someone else's lawn for hours. Secondly, an aerial view shows tire tracks in a loop on the lawn, suggesting that the owners of the property (at the time the aerial photo was taken) use the lawn for routinely turning their vehicles around so they can exit the driveway. I don't see a single shrub or tree on the property, but I do see a lot of barren dirt. Someone that drives on the lawn isn't going to water it ... are they?

From your description of this property, sure doesn't sound like it at all!
 
Ok google maps has 1.1 miles from Cornbelt Auctions to Lake Ave.

Shortest route - straight down S Evans.

Time - 4 minutes.

Not sure how to post the damn thing though....
 
I probably wouldn't think anything of it either other than being irritated the bikes were on the path.

And much's I hate to say this, being that he's a male by himself and it was obvious that at least one of the bikes belonged to a young girl, he might even be afraid to stop. I rarely think about it but my husband said he's constantly cautious around kids, especially little girls he doesn't know. Would you really want to be the guy that found the girls just having fun playing, and then what? You're now a stranger alone with two little girls... what do you do? Scold them for leaving their bikes on the trail? Let them know you were just making sure they were ok? As a kid either one would freak me out. Of course if you found them in trouble it'd be a whole different story, but I can see why he'd be cautious even if he DID find it a little odd.

I certainly can see your (& hubbies) point :(...although terribly sad that others can't watch out for others' children anymore without getting accused of being a pedo.
 
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