IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #15

[ShyViolet]

Marc Allen in 1986. He disappeared walking in his own neighbourhood in Des Moines in 1986 when he was 13 years old.

It has been speculated that his disappearance may have been linked to Johnny Gosch and Eugene Martin. He was around the same general size and appearance as both boys. He was also a paperboy but was not delivering papers at the time of his disappearance.

He disappeared later in the day, when he was walking to a friend's house on the same block as his own home. He also disappeared earlier in the year, in March, vs May.

BBM. Sorry for the OT, but can I ask what you mean by "March, vs May"? I thought Johnny and Eugene disappeared in Sept. and Aug., respectively. Or have I misinterpreted? Tia.

 

[GrainneDhu]

I've read your post over and over again trying to figure out what you mean when you say, Iowa snob bias." I'm not a dumb person and I know what each word means, IOWA, SNOB, BIAS, but the way you put the words together, I have no clue if your saying you are biased against Iowans, or you are an Iowa snob who is biased against certain cities, etc.? What do you mean?

I meant that I'm an Iowa snob who is biased against certain cities. Waterloo has a certain reputation for roughness that other cities in Iowa point at to make themselves feel better about the problems in their own backyards. Rationally, I'm certain that the image is far from the reality.

Like all snobbism, it only makes sense to someone who shares the values.

I am rather appalled that after so many years, I still have that inner snob... she's very difficult to get rid of.

 

[threecrazykids]

I meant that I'm an Iowa snob who is biased against certain cities. Waterloo has a certain reputation for roughness that other cities in Iowa point at to make themselves feel better about the problems in their own backyards. Rationally, I'm certain that the image is far from the reality.

Like all snobbism, it only makes sense to someone who shares the values.

I am rather appalled that after so many years, I still have that inner snob... she's very difficult to get rid of.

I'm a local...and I too have the same opinion about Waterloo. It's just "known" for a higher level of criminal activity.

 

[GrainneDhu]

BBM. Sorry for the OT, but can I ask what you mean by "March, vs May"? I thought Johnny and Eugene disappeared in Sept. and Aug., respectively. Or have I misinterpreted? Tia.

You are correct! I must have been having a brain blank when I typed that.

What I meant to write was that Marc Allen disappeared in spring rather than late summer. The timing was off by a matter of about 5 months.

Or... maybe it wasn't.

No one knows.

I was so sad when Eugene Martin's parents died without an answer.

 

[dotr]

Not sure if this has been posted or not, but this male teen - Jesse J Dejonge, is also on the missing persons list with the girls.
http://www.iowaonline.state.ia.us/mpic/Controller.aspx?cmd=personDetailCommand&id=29680

 

[Fukiyama]

As a local myself, I have never known about the Waterloo bias, though I can certainly see where it comes from. But having grown up in northwest Iowa, I guess all of the bias went towards my own hometown that was in its heyday known as Little Chicago for its meat packing industry and associated criminal activities.

I was so sad when Eugene Martin's parents died without an answer.

Off-topic and purely for my own edification, I have a question for you all, not aimed at you specifically, GrainneDhu. If you want to respond in PM rather than here in the thread, that'd be better to keep down the spam.

People always talk about hoping and praying that a missing child will make it home in the end. But when that child never does and the parents grow old and die without answers, people always express sorrow and regret that the parents never received answers. Are there no answers to be had in the hereafter? I personally think there are and I'm wondering what others think.

 

[MNDad]

This is one of the few places on the web where religion and politics don't hijack the conversation. I'd like to see it stay that way. I don't mind debating either and I am quite opinionated on both, I just don't want to do it here.

 

[Confusion]

this however does not explain where the bikes and purse were found... one thought could be a merry band of prepubescent/teenagers pirating unclaimed wares and then dumping them in the most concealed area of the park...but the purse, i think elizabeth would have taken her purse...idk..

I also think that if kids had done that, they would have taken the phone from the purse (and possibly kept it if they liked the games on it), and there really wouldn't be any need to have the purse on the other side of the fence. If they were going to leave the bikes and purse in the same area, why not just leave them together?

 

[Simp]

This is one of the few places on the web where religion and politics don't hijack the conversation. I'd like to see it stay that way. I don't mind debating either and I am quite opinionated on both, I just don't want to do it here.[/

Sorry. I will delete my post. Not my intention to get off topic of E & L here.

 

[Double_GMA]

The FBI stated on about July 23 that they believed the girls were alive. That was at the same time that Elizabeth's father discovered a message on his cell phone from Elizabeth stating "daddy, I miss you".

I had heard this before and thought how bittersweet, but now I'm trying to understand why it wasn't discovered by LE before the 23rd? I thought they family had turned over their phones ... I remember Misty saying that her phone and her sister's were not working properly after they got them back, surely LE asked for and searched everyone's phones.

Does anyone have the link that states Drew found this message? Thanks, in advance.

 

[MNDad]

This is one of the few places on the web where religion and politics don't hijack the conversation. I'd like to see it stay that way. I don't mind debating either and I am quite opinionated on both, I just don't want to do it here.[/

Sorry. I will delete my post. Not my intention to get off topic of E & L here.

You don't have to delete. I was just putting that out there before we start sleuthing Obama or the local Muslims.

 

[Thinkzerz]

I had heard this before and thought how bittersweet, but now I'm trying to understand why it wasn't discovered by LE before the 23rd? I thought they family had turned over their phones ... I remember Misty saying that her phone and her sister's were not working properly after they got them back, surely LE asked for and searched everyone's phones.

Does anyone have the link that states Drew found this message? Thanks, in advance.

He mentioned it and played it in a video. And to think of it. Yes, true about LE having there phones. They didn't find the message? Well for what it's worth Elizabeth sounded happy on that message.

 

[Wishbone]

Interesting new article


Missing Iowa cousins gone for a month: Are they victims of trafficking?

http://www.examiner.com/article/mis...e-for-a-month-are-they-victims-of-trafficking

 

[Thinkzerz]

Sorry i don't know how to forward a quote from another thread. But i never saw this video the was this poster did with MCM in background just thought id repost it.

From poster: IAM

I haven't heard anyone here comment on Misti's sudden appearance in the later part of the interview with Dan's mother. She appears around 5:19 in a mini-dress. She cuts right through the middle of camera view and oddly sits with her back to the camera, then briefly plays with the kitten and appears to play or text on a cellphone or ipod. I find this behaviour extremly odd and just wanted others views on this. I am relatively new here (was on here some months ago and then forgot my user info so have just been reading). It is hard to sit silent on this case. Here is the link to the interview I am referring to.
http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-816543

I do think that is Misti, If not, I am sorry. It looks like her.

 

[Thinkzerz]

I had heard this before and thought how bittersweet, but now I'm trying to understand why it wasn't discovered by LE before the 23rd? I thought they family had turned over their phones ... I remember Misty saying that her phone and her sister's were not working properly after they got them back, surely LE asked for and searched everyone's phones.

Does anyone have the link that states Drew found this message? Thanks, in advance.

I went back to the thread were the link was to the video but it doesn't work now. here was the quote

Originally Posted by Unscripted
Here’s the link to the KWWL story that includes Elizabeth’s voice message for her Dad:

http://www.kwwl.com/story/19081988/p...lease-of-girls

 

[Sailorsgirl]

Just trying to catch up ...
First, thanks Coe for the great photos and the perspective. It looks so much more open than maps would lead you to believe.

Second, I noticed people chatting about the "revenge" angle to get Dan to keep quiet. I'd just like to add, in the drug world, unlike the mob world, families don't appear to be off limits. Also, did anyone consider that perhaps it's not just to keep Dan quiet, but all the people related to him who might know something. Maybe it's not to keep him quiet at all ... maybe he owes some higher-up in the drug world money so the girls were taken until the money is paid back? I know it's a stretch, but I do remember seeing a segment on ID (or one of those channels) in which a drug dealer owed money to his supplier and the supplier had the guy's brother kidnapped until the money was paid back. In that story, the brother was eventually murdered because the supplier was told by his attorney you get less time in prison for murder than kidnapping. I don't think this is what happened necessarily, but thought I'd throw it out there.

Third, dumb question ... we hear and see the grandmothers in this case, but where are the grandfathers?

Fourth, sorry for the rambling. It's hard to stay up on all of this with a crazy 2-year-old running around.

 

[Confusion]

Sorry i don't know how to forward a quote from another thread. But i never saw this video the was this poster did with MCM in background just thought id repost it.

From poster: IAM

I haven't heard anyone here comment on Misti's sudden appearance in the later part of the interview with Dan's mother. She appears around 5:19 in a mini-dress. She cuts right through the middle of camera view and oddly sits with her back to the camera, then briefly plays with the kitten and appears to play or text on a cellphone or ipod. I find this behaviour extremly odd and just wanted others views on this. I am relatively new here (was on here some months ago and then forgot my user info so have just been reading). It is hard to sit silent on this case. Here is the link to the interview I am referring to.
http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-816543

I do think that is Misti, If not, I am sorry. It looks like her.

Several people have mentioned this, and I don't see what the problem is with it. In order to get to the bench, you'd have to be in front of the camera for at least a short time. I think it makes more sense to sit with your back to the camera there than to turn around and face it. I'm sure a lot more people would have had a field day with it if she'd turned to the camera and smiled and waved.

A lot of people sat at the lake watching LE for any signs of anything new being discovered. I also thought she was wearing shorts and a top, but it could be a dress. With the weather we were having back then, I would have been tempted to dress that way too (but not tempted enough to actually do it!)

 

[janie]

Sorry i don't know how to forward a quote from another thread. But i never saw this video the was this poster did with MCM in background just thought id repost it.

From poster: IAM

I haven't heard anyone here comment on Misti's sudden appearance in the later part of the interview with Dan's mother. She appears around 5:19 in a mini-dress. She cuts right through the middle of camera view and oddly sits with her back to the camera, then briefly plays with the kitten and appears to play or text on a cellphone or ipod. I find this behaviour extremly odd and just wanted others views on this. I am relatively new here (was on here some months ago and then forgot my user info so have just been reading). It is hard to sit silent on this case. Here is the link to the interview I am referring to.
http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-816543

I do think that is Misti, If not, I am sorry. It looks like her.

That sure was Misty! You are right, it is odd. She could have sat on the end of the bench furthest from the camera with less interuption, <modsnip>? <modsnip>.

 

[dotr]

I also think that if kids had done that, they would have taken the phone from the purse (and possibly kept it if they liked the games on it), and there really wouldn't be any need to have the purse on the other side of the fence. If they were going to leave the bikes and purse in the same area, why not just leave them together?

If I think in terms of someone throwing a purse aside on purpose, my thoughts go to youthful bullies ( maybe basketball playing ones) with one especially nasty and aggressive one saying " Whatcha got in yer bag?" grabbing and rummaging , then throwing it over the fence...The girls protest, maybe rudely and scramble to get it back.( just throwing out scenarios)

 

[Confusion]

Just trying to catch up ...
First, thanks Coe for the great photos and the perspective. It looks so much more open than maps would lead you to believe.

Second, I noticed people chatting about the "revenge" angle to get Dan to keep quiet. I'd just like to add, in the drug world, unlike the mob world, families don't appear to be off limits. Also, did anyone consider that perhaps it's not just to keep Dan quiet, but all the people related to him who might know something. Maybe it's not to keep him quiet at all ... maybe he owes some higher-up in the drug world money so the girls were taken until the money is paid back? I know it's a stretch, but I do remember seeing a segment on ID (or one of those channels) in which a drug dealer owed money to his supplier and the supplier had the guy's brother kidnapped until the money was paid back. In that story, the brother was eventually murdered because the supplier was told by his attorney you get less time in prison for murder than kidnapping. I don't think this is what happened necessarily, but thought I'd throw it out there.

Third, dumb question ... we hear and see the grandmothers in this case, but where are the grandfathers?

Fourth, sorry for the rambling. It's hard to stay up on all of this with a crazy 2-year-old running around.

He manufactured and distributed the drugs himself (allegedly?) so who would he owe money to for it? If this was like an episode on any tv show, it would have been solved within an hour.

I'd say there's a fairly high probability that one or more of the grandfathers is dead, but I've never heard any mentioned.

Last thing - crazy two year-old is a redundancy; aren't all 2 year-olds crazy?