IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #16

[nikb]

I am very careful about what I post and don't think I've ever posted a rumor or anything from FB but I just have to share this time. Just read on one of the girls' pages that today Heather posted on her FB status that she & Drew believe someone who knew the girls is the one who took them and they are praying really hard that TODAY will be the day that the girls are returned to them. I'm sure they always pray that everyday. But, it doesn't hurt for us to send prayers, positive thoughts, good vibes out to them today.

lease:

That would be so wonderful! I'm curious why they think today but I know we probably can't discuss it much here.

I will admit I've had this dream, which I realize is probably naive and stupid, but I've had it several times. It's the girls at the house of a person they know, unharmed, anxious about why they're there and haven't been allowed to go home, but also having a relatively fun time. It seemed a whole lot more realistic a month ago though.

 

[nikb]

bbm
nikb, I have just come from looking at the missing poster on Facebook that shows two headshots of each girl.

The ?prose para beneath the photos and specs, addresses LC's hair, but doesn't mention EC: "Lyric has chin-length hair and tanned skin. Lyric has a mole on the back of her neck the size of a dime."

Oh thank you! I knew I'd seen an updated missing poster with more detailed descriptions but was having a hard time finding it again.

 

[Sunlight]

Wouldn't the FBI be hovering over what is posted and who is friended, etc., at this point in time?

 

[SapphireSteel]

Wouldn't the FBI be hovering over what is posted and who is friended, etc., at this point in time?

They're probably reading this...sites like this have been involved in breakthroughs before.

Hi! :wave:

Social media is especially useful in missing children's cases, I believe. Sites like this are often monitored, for example, as will all related fb accounts.

 

[Sunlight]

Two things I've been pondering. For a person to actually act on an urge to abduct two little girls, they are risking being in prison 4 ever. That is some huge risk. Either they are so driven by an urge to do something like this and risk it all..or...they think that what they are doing is not punishable to that degree, i.e., that it will be viewed as a custodial event..or just borrowing them for awhile...something crazy like that. I'm going with the first one..the urge..the pedo, but stranger things have happened.

 

[foxbluff]

They're probably reading this...sites like this have been involved in breakthroughs before.

Hi! :wave:

Social media is especially useful in missing children's cases, I believe. Sites like this are often monitored, for example, as will all related fb accounts.

ITA !!! Monitored by the perp(s) as well.

 

[Confusion]

ITA !!! Monitored by the perp(s) as well.

I sometimes worry about that being the case when people start discussing things that LE appears to be trying to keep quiet. I guess I'm afraid that if somebody gets too close to the actual facts, the person may panic and do something to the girls that wasn't originally planned. The one problem I see with it being someone the girls (and possibly others in the family) know is that there's no way to return them alive without being exposed. I hope it's someone that the girls "know" who has used a false identity the entire time so they can return them alive and expect to get away safely.

 

[Bootsctr]

We had a child molester in our town (sure there are more, this one was just finally charged and prosecuted for it). He came from a good family, or least I thought they were very nice. I knew the parents, they used to go to the same church as me and my family and went to the same school as my father. I did not ever know their child who is now serving 20 years for 7 child sex acts. I don't know how old his youngest victim was, but the one that he is serving time for was 15 at the time. He served as a city councilman and was very active in the Methodist church. He was a pianist and a Sunday school teacher. He worked for the family business. He got away with it for quite a while. Apparently the local kids who were victimized were paid to be quiet. He finally went too far and was starting to molest the children of parents who came from other states to buy watermelons from the family business. An investigation was started and (sunshine law) there were released records previously sealed by a grand jury of previous accusations and how the matter was swept under the rug.

Anyway, I started reading about child molesters and came across some interesting information here: http://www.childmolestationprevention.org/pages/tell_others_the_facts.html

* We want to introduce you to a sexual abuser of children. (they call him George)Keep in mind that far more men than women are abusers. In fact, approximately one out of 20 men, and approximately one out of 3,300 women are sexual abusers of children.

* First of all, he's married, just like 77 percent of the more than 4000 child sexual abusers in the Child Molestation Prevention Study. George is religious, like 93 percent of the abusers. He's educated. More than 46 percent had some college education and another 30 percent were high school graduates. Like 65 percent of the admitted abusers, George was working. Numerous studies of adult victims have sought to link child molestation victims to lower social class and lower family income. All have failed. Child victims and their abusers exist equally in families of all income levels and classes. And, now from the study, we know that child molesters are as equally married, educated, employed, and religious as any other Americans.

Maybe our perp has crossed over from being a molester to a pedophile (think Jerry Sandusky) or perhaps even worse. http://crime.about.com/od/sex/p/pedophile.htm

Pedophiles Often Prefer Children Close to Puberty:

Pedophiles often have a specific age of child they target. Some prefer younger children, some older.
Often his environment or a special room will be decorated in child-like decor and will appeal to the age and sex of the child he is trying to entice.
Many pedophiles often prefer children close to puberty who are sexually inexperienced, but curious about sex.

Manipulation of the Innocent:

Pedophiles work to master their manipulative skills and often unleash them on troubled children by first becoming their friend, building the the child's self esteem. They may refer to the child as special or mature, appealing to their need to be heard and understood then entice them with adult type activities that are often sexual in content such as x-rated movies or pictures. They offer them alcohol or drugs to hamper their ability to resist activities or recall events that occurred.

There's more good information at both links. Just food for thought.

ETA: The molester will only serve about 7 years of the actual 20 year sentence.

 

[SapphireSteel]

My friends daughter, who I have known since she was 3, was raped her best friends father at 13.

This man and his wife were prominent at the school, involved in all sorts of activities with children, they had two of their own at the school as well. He was my sons soccer coach.

I never actually liked either of them just because of their strut (holier than thou), but it was a horrible shock to find out what he'd done. It has gone to court but I'm ashamed to say I don't know the results, he was wandering around town in the years it took to get to court however...scary.

My friends daughter has been promiscuous since, but at least now has a long term steady boyfriend and is doing well at school and generally. She has a good support system and appears fine. It was a slow seduction type rape not a violent incident...but still evil and traumatic.


and o/t, apologies.

 

[Thinkzerz]

In terms of changing stories from two of the "tip" people, it seems to me that both have modified their statements. The lawn watering guy first said he saw that girls between 12-1 and then changed it to 12-3. His wife helped him modify the time even though she was not home at the time. With the cycling guy, we've heard that he used the washroom at the parking lot and at the gas station.

Which person are we supposed to assume is not telling the truth?

imo The watering guy is kinda absent minded like. However i do believe he saw them that day. TG ??? That would be my guess if i had to choose between the two. jmo

 

[MNDad]

My friends daughter, who I have known since she was 3, was raped her best friends father at 13.

This man and his wife were prominent at the school, involved in all sorts of activities with children, they had 2 of their own at the school as well. He was my sons soccer coach.

I never actually like either of them just because of their strut, but it was a horrible shock to find out what he'd done. It has gone to court but I'm ashamed to say I don't know the results, he was wandering around town in the years it took to get to court however...scary.

My friends daughter has been promiscuous since, but at least now has a long term steady boyfriend and is doing well at school and generally. She has a good support system and appears fine. It was a slow seduction type rape not a violent incident...but still evil and horrific.

and o/t, apologies.

Maybe even MORE evil and horrific that way.

 

[SapphireSteel]

I think they are both telling the truth and I honestly can't see why others don't.

:dunno:

 

[Bootsctr]

My friends daughter, who I have known since she was 3, was raped her best friends father at 13.

This man and his wife were prominent at the school, involved in all sorts of activities with children, they had two of their own at the school as well. He was my sons soccer coach.

I never actually liked either of them just because of their strut (holier than thou), but it was a horrible shock to find out what he'd done. It has gone to court but I'm ashamed to say I don't know the results, he was wandering around town in the years it took to get to court however...scary.

My friends daughter has been promiscuous since, but at least now has a long term steady boyfriend and is doing well at school and generally. She has a good support system and appears fine. It was a slow seduction type rape not a violent incident...but still evil and traumatic.


and o/t, apologies.

No apology needed. I think it relates very well and provides insight to how these creeps think and manipulate children.

 

[Sunlight]

It says...TG "of Waterloo". Is that true or not true?

 

[Confusion]

I think they are both telling the truth and I honestly can't see why others don't.

:dunno:

It's very possible that one or both of them may be mistaken about what/who he/they saw or when he/they saw it/them, but I don't think that means anyone lied. Was that about as clear as mud? :what:

 

[hollyblue]

Still have faith LE has their heels dug in, but would like to know what kind of presence the FBI has at this point. Curious if HC's FB statement is just a gut feeling or if it's from the briefings with LE. Sending them prayers of stength. I've thought about EC's siblings, especially since school has started up again. Hopefully, they are in counseling of some kind. <3

 

[hollyblue]

It says...TG "of Waterloo". Is that true or not true?

Even tho his physical home is south/se of E'dale, his zip code puts him in Waterloo. Go figure.....I can't explain it, but someone stated to vision E'dale as a fist and then covering that fist with your other hand...and it would Waterloo. Maybe a local can add their knowledge and perspective on it.

 

[SapphireSteel]

It's very possible that one or both of them may be mistaken about what/who he/they saw or when he/they saw it/them, but I don't think that means anyone lied. Was that about as clear as mud? :what:

There is always that possibility but -

Statistically at least, the more witnesses there are, the clearer the picture.

If it had only been one witness mistaken, easy...especially an elderley man who may or may not be as sharp as a tack, but the fact remains his sighting fits with the appearance of the bikes at the lake, the timeline (he said between 12 and 1) is completely consistent with Mr G's. He is unlikely to be wrong about the day, in my opinion, thanks to his loving wife who has told him what day it was...thereby adding a second witness into the mix.

Mr G himself is a credible witness too, unlikely to have been mistaken - indeed, he could pinpoint the sighting by a phonecall he had made to his daugther. Three different people telling consistent stories, statistically at least, means they are all accurate.

Now make that four people telling consistent accounts, because I'm counting Mr P and his "how could they get that far in 8 minutes" statement.

This is just too many witnesses in my mind...they are unrelated, they have no motive, they made signed declarations as to what they saw with LE agreeing to testify in any legal proceedings. They all answered questions with apparent naturalness and lack of guile.

I can see how its easier to discount one or other of them, timewise. It is very, very tight. If this is as well planned as I think it was, however, it went as smooth as silk and was easily accomplished in 8 minutes.

The only thing the perp/s could not take into account prior was Mr P, G and C.

Flies in the ointment.

:cow:

ETA: when/if this is prosecuted, everyone will be staggered at the amount of planning in this crime.

 

[nikb]

It says...TG "of Waterloo". Is that true or not true?

Not that I know the guy or anything, but I think it's true. It's in numerous MSM reports and if you look for him on FB it comes up as Waterloo as well (if the profiles I found are the same TG). It sounds like he's close to the E'dale side of Waterloo.

 

[foxbluff]

I sometimes worry about that being the case when people start discussing things that LE appears to be trying to keep quiet. I guess I'm afraid that if somebody gets too close to the actual facts, the person may panic and do something to the girls that wasn't originally planned. The one problem I see with it being someone the girls (and possibly others in the family) know is that there's no way to return them alive without being exposed. I hope it's someone that the girls "know" who has used a false identity the entire time so they can return them alive and expect to get away safely.

wow...thought provoking post. I totally understand your concerns.

However, I hope that anybody who is smart enough to find a site such as this, is smart enough to see that we're only speculating (from a distance) on what LE might be withholding. If we posters have learned nothing else from following past cases, we've learned that LE is very good at keeping evidence "close to the vest" that they don't want leaked. And even when we think they've accidentally leaked an item, it turns out they "planted the item" on purpose. We've seen it again and again.

Also, I would hope that a perp would know that the penalty for having kidnapped and returned a child is minor compared to the penalty for the kidnap/murder of a child. In the 1st scenario, there's light at the end of the tunnel.

In my opinion, the perp doubled his chances of soon being caught when he elected to take TWO little girls at the same time! It is no doubt in his best interest to drop them off at a safe place as soon as possible. Much better than waiting until the SWAT team is quietly waiting 300 ft. from his door.