IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #16

[otto]

You will not like my answer. I think they were "loaded" and "unloaded". I think you'll know where I'm going with this. Can someone local find out if the boats are still at those homes and whether they are two- or four-seaters?

The objective is to be alone with the victim ... it's much easier to walk 100 feet from the double gate to Maiden Lane. Staying on Maiden Lane would mean limited time with the victims. Perhaps, even an opportunist could find somewhere to go with two girls in 2-3 hours on a Friday afternoon.

 

[GrainneDhu]

This is OT, but I'm curious about that big house in the left circle. How much does a house like that cost in Evansdale, IA? In L.A., that is easily a $5 million house -- possibly up to $10 million depending on the part of town it's in. I thought maybe one of the locals might know (I probably don't even want to know the answer - it might make me cry.) kay:

I don't know about Evansdale real estate but in Iowa City, that would be $500K to maybe $1 million. Depending on the neighbourhood. Just judging from the roof, it's about the same size as my sister's house and I know she has more common sense than to spend $5 million on a house.

"This isn't heaven. It's Iowa."--Ray Kinsella in Field of Dreams based on the novel Shoeless Joe by WP Kinsella

 

[hambirg]

<BBM>

Exactly ... there's no murder scene at the lake. If these two 8 and 10 year old girls were randomly snatched off the double fenced trail as they stopped by the unlocked double gate even as late as 1 PM, then their bodies might have been found near their bikes. Emergency people weren't there until 3:40. Whether it was one or two perps, there was a 2-3 hour head start and whomever took them had a place in mind ... I think.

The only way I can see a paddle boat being used in this case is if there was more than one perp and the person in a paddle boat was a look out.

But I still don't think there was a paddle boater. LE did not ask about a paddle boater until July 23rd.

 

[GrainneDhu]

LOL! I was wondering how it is even possible in Evansdale to make that much money! Given the (very limited) examples I've seen of the area's other citizens, and from listening to the scanner thread, Waterloo seems more like Watts than Beverly Hills! :what:

There are very rich people in Waterloo as well as very poor people. And in Cedar Falls. Keep in mind that even urban traffic in Iowa is not anywhere near as bad as LA.

 

[nikb]

<snipped respectfully for space>
I would expect an equally fast response to two missing children.

Out here in the country, I think everyone understands that life is tough and we all need help sometimes.

I'm GLAD it was such a fast response and I agree. Even here where I live I think everyone understands that people need help sometimes. It's just when 20 people need help at once and there are 5 people to handle it responders/dispatchers have to decide between them, and this conflict seems to not happen as much in the smaller towns. I can't even fathom calling about a kid who was missing for an hour or two and getting a response like they seem to have gotten for these girls. I'm glad people were searching for them so early on.

 

[GrainneDhu]

On the water, the person would be seen from a distance. It would be indiscernible that two girls in the boat are not alive. On the trail, anyone happening to pass by would clearly see a guy carrying two bodies. If he wanted to remove two bodies from that lake, the paddle boat seems like an idea that is nearly as good as any other. As for him removing the girls from the paddle boat, that would take no more than 45 seconds.

If you don't think there was a paddle boat, why do you think a neighbor reported that someone used his paddle boat? Or was that information not accurate?

I don't think there was a paddle boater that day during the time period in question.

I think the most likely reason the neighbour reported that someone used his paddle boat was that everyone in Evansdale was worried, tense and doing everything they could to help LE. Anything that seemed unusual or out of place was probably called in to the Evansdale PD.

Well, everyone but possibly one single person, the perpetrator. It's possible that the perp lives in Evansdale but I think it's also possible that the perp lived in Evansdale at some point in the past and has since moved away.

 

[Confusion]

Thanks! Makes sense. I think my Aunt in another state used to attempt to grow those (she still does attempt it but Mother Nature won quite a few years ago). Would it be a good hiding place? For a child or an abductor? It doesn't sound like it but wanted to ask.

I'm not sure how well hidden they'd be, but I guess it depends on the kind of trees/shrubs they were, how close together they are, how much maintenance has been done around them (lawnmowing, weeding, etc.) and what they actually are protecting. I believe most that are protecting from bad weather are about 2 rows; the house I owned had just one row to block out noise from traffic and give some privacy. You couldn't see through it, but if you were to put a body in it, something would most likely be showing from one side or the other. With 2 rows close together like that, if someone was between them, it's not real likely they'd be seen. MOO

 

[GrainneDhu]

I've never heard the term "shelterbelts" before. I was just wondering what is that? Is it an underground kind of thing where you might say hide yourself, or hide someone? Is it somewhere girls might 'hide' for fun if they were playing hide-and-go-seek? Or is it more like an emergency ditch you could duck into if a tornado with a bunch of wind was coming? I know around here I've heard for wildfires, worst case scenario get in the deepest ditch you can with something flame-retardent over you... this might be a really bad idea for tornadoes that include rain, we just don't get those much. Something entirely different that I haven't even thought about?

(Sorry if you've already answered this, I'm catching up).

Tornadoes in Iowa are alway accompanied by rain right before and right after them. It's when the rain suddenly stops that you know to look out the window to see if anything interesting is happening. The experts say that if you're caught in your car, you're safest lying in the ditch by the road, rain and all. It's interesting that they say the same thing for wildfires but it makes sense.

A shelterbelt is just a strip of land left to go wild. They're also called filter strips because farmers are encouraged to leave at least 75 feet between a field and a stream to help filter out the flow of herbicides and pesticides into groundwater.

Shelterbelts help protect fields from wind erosion by breaking up the flow of air. They also give wildlife protection and a way to move from place to place with relative safety from things like hawks and other predators. Strategically placed, they can also muffle road noise from a house placed behind one. And provide some privacy for that house as well.

While a shelterbelt may look attractive, many of them are full of poison ivy (spread via bird poop) and ticks. A city kid might be tempted to try getting through one but most rural kids know the hazards.

I sometimes joke that the shelterbelt along the creek (pronounced "crick" true to my Iowa roots) behind my house could have a dozen bodies placed there and I would never know. I hope I'd notice any scavenger birds circling but who knows?

 

[hambirg]

Regarding shelter belts. . .LE believed that Sherry Arnold (missing teacher from MT) was buried in a shelter belt. . or they thought that was a possibility (I think from the soil found on the perps shoes.)

So I think that they could be considered a possible dump site. Man I hate typing that!

 

[Confusion]

Tornadoes in Iowa are alway accompanied by rain right before and right after them. It's when the rain suddenly stops that you know to look out the window to see if anything interesting is happening. The experts say that if you're caught in your car, you're safest lying in the ditch by the road, rain and all. It's interesting that they say the same thing for wildfires but it makes sense.

A shelterbelt is just a strip of land left to go wild. They're also called filter strips because farmers are encouraged to leave at least 75 feet between a field and a stream to help filter out the flow of herbicides and pesticides into groundwater.

Shelterbelts help protect fields from wind erosion by breaking up the flow of air. They also give wildlife protection and a way to move from place to place with relative safety from things like hawks and other predators. Strategically placed, they can also muffle road noise from a house placed behind one. And provide some privacy for that house as well.

While a shelterbelt may look attractive, many of them are full of poison ivy (spread via bird poop) and ticks. A city kid might be tempted to try getting through one but most rural kids know the hazards.

I sometimes joke that the shelterbelt along the creek (pronounced "crick" true to my Iowa roots) behind my house could have a dozen bodies placed there and I would never know. I hope I'd notice any scavenger birds circling but who knows?

Thanks for clarifying. I guess they're different there even if they serve the same purpose. Learn something new every day.

 

[GrainneDhu]

Regarding shelter belts. . .LE believed that Sherry Arnold (missing teacher from MT) was buried in a shelter belt. . or they thought that was a possibility (I think from the soil found on the perps shoes.)

So I think that they could be considered a possible dump site. Man I hate typing that!

It was from the confession of one of the perps. The other perp was the one who managed to lead them to the correct site.

I agree about a possible dump site. Deer season is soon.

 

[Reverie]

It wasn't really as restrictive as it sounds, there were a total of about 10 blocks he could go around (unless his 5 year old brother was with him, then it was just to the park or the parking lot). There were 2 playgrounds, a ball field, we had a swing set, slide and sand box in our yard, one neighbor with a child the same age had a trampoline they used at times, etc. I was probably just more cautious because I was raised in a city, and never completely adjusted to small town living. At that time, I was probably one of the few people in town who locked my door every time I left home, even just to make a 10 minute trip to the store.

I barely let my sons out of my sight while they were growing up...for a few reasons:

1. I grew up in a transient neighborhood and was flashed multiple times--sometimes by the same guy. It was frightening, but never told my folks because they were 'shoot the messenger' types.

2. When I was 14, while walking to school one morning, a man pulled his car up next to me and demanded to know what time it was. I yelled the time and kept walking, but he kept saying "pardon me? I can't hear you". Ultimately, I stopped and yelled, "it's 8:20!" and was close enough to see his pants slid down to his knees, and ugh...you know what else. I ran all the way to school.
Never told anyone except my little sister

To this day, I feel like I had angels watching over me.

3. Ever since Jacob Wetterling went missing. Hit too close to home. There are too many missing children. Keeps me up at night.

Hoping and praying for Lyric and Elizabeth's quick and safe return

 

[HeinekenMan]

I was just using the available facts of the case. The girls were tracked to the edge of the water. A paddle boat had been used. A white van had been spotted in the area.

Since the first day, I have believed that the girls met someone who stopped off the interstate and abducted the two girls. But so much of this doesn't make any sense. One thing I definitely do not think happened is that some guy on the trail kidnapped both of them and walked them around to the other side of the lake to his vehicle. I just can't imagine that happening. They either left willingly or were killed in a manner that does not leave evidence (strangled or drowned). If there WAS a paddle boat involved, I don't think it was to lure anyone.

 

[Confusion]

I barely let my sons out of my sight while they were growing up...for a few reasons:

1. I grew up in a transient neighborhood and was flashed multiple times--sometimes by the same guy. It was frightening, but never told my folks because they were 'shoot the messenger' types.

2. When I was 14, while walking to school one morning, a man pulled his car up next to me and demanded to know what time it was. I yelled the time and kept walking, but he kept saying "pardon me? I can't hear you". Ultimately, I stopped and yelled, "it's 8:20!" and was close enough to see his pants slid down to his knees, and ugh...you know what else. I ran all the way to school.
Never told anyone except my little sister

To this day, I feel like I had angels watching over me.

3. Ever since Jacob Wetterling went missing. Hit too close to home. There are too many missing children. Keeps me up at night.

Hoping and praying for Lyric and Elizabeth's quick and safe return

My son also had that double whammy. We lived in St.Cloud when Jacob was taken, and moved shortly after. I used him as an excuse for my paranoia for quite a while, but most of it was there before he disappeared.

 

[smiley]

Does anyone have a link to the video where Aunt T. said that the girls had been to the lake before that day right when WC was saying that they had not been to the lake before? I never got to see it but would like to if it's available anywhere. I could check youtube if I could remember who did the interview.

It was on Jane Velez Mitchell, not the most recent one, but the time before that.

 

[Bootsctr]

OT... Just watched the new movie, THE TALL MAN
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1658837/

Has anyone else seen this? It's about children who are abducted, who seem to vanish. I don't want to give anything away, but this movie really made me think about why some children go missing... Watch it, it's worth the pay per view price. Like I said, really has me thinking about who "the tall man" really is in some of these cases.

Thank you! I have been thinking about watching this. I decided on "The Silent House" last week instead. It stars the Olsen twins young sister, Elizabeth. "The Silent House" kept me guessing until the very end. It's a very dark movie, but the message is loud and clear. I would recommend it just because of how it kept me in suspense until the end. Usually I have a clue as to who the bad guy is and this was a surprise.

I will definitely watch "The Tall Man". Thanks for the recommendation.

 

[LaylaD]

It seems more and more like "not a chance grab". Everything is pointing towards a planned event ... thought through all the way to how to make an 8 and 10 year old girl disappear on a Friday afternoon ... with a staged scene head start?

I'm leaning towards a planned event .... and have starting wondering if the girls were taken/chosen because they *are* cousins.

 

[mahoolin]

I had been meaning to watch The Lovely Bones since Morgan Harrington's bones were discovered in a farmer's field in 2010, when the film was first released. I watched it today ... I think it gives insight into the situation that we're dealing with here.

Someone a few days ago gave a link for a case where a young girl was kept in a bunker built underneath a man's home. I read page after page about the case but can't remember Inames. It made me think of lovely bones. I'll check and see if i can find unless someone else remembers. In this case, the perp was a trusted family friend, and the outcome was good.

Eta, haven't caught up to current from where I left off, so forgive if already mentioned again since the quoted post...

 

[Bootsctr]

I'm leaning towards a planned event .... and have starting wondering if the girls were taken/chosen because they *are* cousins.

I too am leaning toward a planned event and that it was someone familiar to the girls... even if it was a repairman who had been at the house months or weeks before the event. If this person talked to the girls at that time maybe he told them he had "horses" and asked if they liked "horses". Of course, girls love horses. Maybe even promised to take them to see the horses and maybe get to ride the horses. I am aware she is a spokesperson for ABC (?) and an advocate for missing children. However, I do think Elizabeth Smart speaking out in this case was of significance. She was abducted and kept alive. Jaycee Dugard's foundation provides support and services for the timely treatment of families recovering from abduction and the aftermath of traumatic experiences. The FBI specifically said they have reason to believe the girls to be alive. I still believe the girls could be alive. The girls' posters seem to be speaking directly to someone. This case is quite curious and in listening to the scanner last week, the FBI was still in the area and I believe we could see a positive outcome.

“Miracles do happen.”

“For as many bad things that we hear about that happen, for as many kidnappings and terrible stories about finding the remains of children, why can’t these girls be the exception?” Smart said during an interview with The Des Moines Register.

“There’s always hope.”

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/article/20120815/NEWS/308150104/?odyssey=nav|head

 

[Bootsctr]

Someone a few days ago gave a link for a case where a young girl was kept in a bunker built underneath a man's home. I read page after page about the case but can't remember Inames. It made me think of lovely bones. I'll check and see if i can find unless someone else remembers. In this case, the perp was a trusted family friend, and the outcome was good.

Eta, haven't caught up to current from where I left off, so forgive if already mentioned again since the quoted post...

I read that comment too. Cannot remember the young girl's name, but this case popped into my head:

The Case of the Seven-Year Sex Slave
BY Katherine Ramsland
Colleen Stan survived a terrible ordeal. She was kept in a box (under their bed), humiliated and degraded to the point that she was considered brainwashed, and was too fearful to ask for help.

http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/criminal_mind/psychology/sex_slave/13.html