IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #16

[mahoolin]

Here is a link about the girl kept in the bunker. She was under his garage and not his home.

http://www.nytimes.com/1993/01/14/n...und-in-secret-room.html?pagewanted=all&src=pm

I wasn't familiar with the story, but I'm sure some might be.

 

[Bootsctr]

Here is a link about the girl kept in the bunker. She was under his garage and not his home.

http://www.nytimes.com/1993/01/14/n...und-in-secret-room.html?pagewanted=all&src=pm

I'm not familiar with the story, but I'm sure some might be.

Thank you! I was not familiar with the story either. Katie Beers kidnapped by the family friend who reported her missing.

 

[Thinkzerz]

It's also possible that Drew called their friends while he was home taking care of the other kids. I just assumed (I've been doing that way too much lately) that they had looked at the friend's houses for the bikes while they were driving around looking for them. Since the girls were said to stay within a few blocks, most of the friends must have been fairly close by.

I believe that they should have called the police sooner. The family keeps saying that they girls never went far. IMO they did "sometimes". That might be why they didn't call police sooner. JMO

 

[Thinkzerz]

I think they are both telling the truth and I honestly can't see why others don't.

:dunno:

I believe there is no time for TWO unwilling kids to get in any van along with bikes to be taken to the lake to be staged. There is also not enough time for the girls to bike to the lake and be kidnapped within minutes, remember unwilling kids and TG right there around that time and heard and saw nothing? (possible but i say no way) JMO

This was planned and TG is wrong about his time. Or he is lying JMO

 

[cindersoot]

I never heard a white van was reported suspicious the day the girls vanished? Can someone fill me in?

 

[TxLady2]

On the water, the person would be seen from a distance. It would be indiscernible that two girls in the boat are not alive. On the trail, anyone happening to pass by would clearly see a guy carrying two bodies. If he wanted to remove two bodies from that lake, the paddle boat seems like an idea that is nearly as good as any other. As for him removing the girls from the paddle boat, that would take no more than 45 seconds.

If you don't think there was a paddle boat, why do you think a neighbor reported that someone used his paddle boat? Or was that information not accurate?

How would someone noticing the paddle boat be unaware that the girls were not alive? If unconscious or dead, they couldn't sit up. If they were slumped over or lying in the boat, that would be very noticeable, IMO. From my understanding, those boats are pretty shallow, not much room for more than two people, maybe four, and no place to conceal one body much less two. And they move very, very slowly. That would be the last mode of transportation a pedophile would think of using for getting their bodies from one point to another, not to mention a lot of work, IMO. IF they were in a paddle boat with someone, I would have to believe they were still alive. If they were not alive, then why didn't the perp just dump them in the water?
I don't believe LE thinks the girls were ever in a paddle boat... I think they were hoping that whoever took that person's boat may have possibly seen something as he/she was in the boat. If they thought that was the means of transporting the girls from one place to another, then I don't think their request would have been so casually stated. JMO, of course, and while anything is possible, I can't buy your theory. Sorry.

 

[Bootsctr]

How would someone noticing the paddle boat be unaware that the girls were not alive? If unconscious or dead, they couldn't sit up. If they were slumped over or lying in the boat, that would be very noticeable, IMO. From my understanding, those boats are pretty shallow, not much room for more than two people, maybe four, and no place to conceal one body much less two. And they move very, very slowly. That would be the last mode of transportation a pedophile would think of using for getting their bodies from one point to another, not to mention a lot of work, IMO. IF they were in a paddle boat with someone, I would have to believe they were still alive. If they were not alive, then why didn't the perp just dump them in the water?
I don't believe LE thinks the girls were ever in a paddle boat... I think they were hoping that whoever took that person's boat may have possibly seen something as he/she was in the boat. If they thought that was the means of transporting the girls from one place to another, then I don't think their request would have been so casually stated. JMO, of course, and while anything is possible, I can't buy your theory. Sorry.

:goodpost: I agree!! In fact, I will go so far to say the paddle boat person (if they even exist) may have already come forward with information to LE and we are not privy to that information. If the perp has heard that LE was/are still are looking for a paddle boat person, then he may very well be sweating that he was seen.

 

[TxLady2]

I read that comment too. Cannot remember the young girl's name, but this case popped into my head:


http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/criminal_mind/psychology/sex_slave/13.html

Oh, I remember reading about this! They even let her visit her family by herself, but at that point, she was so brainwashed she lied to them and told them he was her boyfriend, and she was happy, and everything was fine. Horrifying!

Jaycee Dugard's story is another fascinating one. If you've never read her book, please do. She never completely lost her hope that she would be free someday. She had such a strong spirit!

 

[Bootsctr]

I never heard a white van was reported suspicious the day the girls vanished? Can someone fill me in?

Hi cindersoot! I never heard about a white van as reported suspicious the day the girls vanished either. In fact, I thought all the sightings of white vans being reported was because of the attempted adduction of the little boy August 1st (http://www.cbs2iowa.com/shared/newsroom/top_stories/videos/kgan_vid_12194.shtml)

No Amber Alert was issued so the sighting of the white van could not have been known the day the girls vanished. There was the release of the guy on the video in the white van (Aug 2nd) who was a person of interest. He came forward, was questioned and released. LE says he is no longer a suspect. Either someone has come forward to LE that we do not know about with information that they saw a white van in the vicinity the day the girls disappeared (mysterious runner, boy fishing), or someone has come forward already who has a white van or access to a white van and LE was not immediately aware of this until a few weeks into the investigation. Curiouser and curiouser...:waitasec:

 

[TxLady2]

I believe that they should have called the police sooner. The family keeps saying that they girls never went far. IMO they did "sometimes". That might be why they didn't call police sooner. JMO

Possible. I've heard of cases where police were not called immediately, and it seems to always be a reasonable explanation.
I can tell you that nearly 25 years ago, my son wandered out of our yard while my back was turned and to make a long story short, he was found an hour or so later, more than a mile from our house, in a pasture with a herd of cows around him. He was almost 3 years old. We never did call 911. His dad is the one who found him. If he had not been found when he was, we would have called the sheriff's dept and they would have come out and searched on horseback, but my husband's instincts were good and he knew our dog was with him and that our son loved to explore the woods and creek banks. If something terrible had happened we would of course have been kicking ourselves for not calling them, but we were very lucky.
There are probably many cases like ours where children are found without the help of LE. Sadly, some are never found even WITH their help. There's no way to explain it, but I thank God every day that our son was okay.

ETA: I have to reclarify.... he was actually found within about half an hour or so, but it took at least 20 minutes or more to walk back to our house with him on his daddy's shoulders. But I knew the moment when he was found because the calling his name stopped and everything was quiet.

 

[Bootsctr]

Oh, I remember reading about this! They even let her visit her family by herself, but at that point, she was so brainwashed she lied to them and told them he was her boyfriend, and she was happy, and everything was fine. Horrifying!

Jaycee Dugard's story is another fascinating one. If you've never read her book, please do. She never completely lost her hope that she would be free someday. She had such a strong spirit!

I have not read Jaycee Dugard's book, but I will now. Thank you. I don't believe her mother ever gave up either. I did see her interview with Diane Sawyer and she is an inspiration! She could not even say her name to lady police officers who immediately knew something was wrong when they saw her. She has incredible survival skills to survive what she did. :tyou:

 

[Bootsctr]

I believe there is no time for TWO unwilling kids to get in any van along with bikes to be taken to the lake to be staged. There is also not enough time for the girls to bike to the lake and be kidnapped within minutes, remember unwilling kids and TG right there around that time and heard and saw nothing? (possible but i say no way) JMO

This was planned and TG is wrong about his time. Or he is lying JMO

I agree, and I think the kids were willing. They had been groomed by this person or they were familiar enough with him they went willingly.... he probably assured them he would have them back in time to be able to leave with the grandmother.

 

[Bootsctr]

Possible. I've heard of cases where police were not called immediately, and it seems to always be a reasonable explanation.
I can tell you that nearly 25 years ago, my son wandered out of our yard while my back was turned and to make a long story short, he was found an hour or so later, more than a mile from our house, in a pasture with a herd of cows around him. He was almost 3 years old. We never did call 911. His dad is the one who found him. If he had not been found when he was, we would have called the sheriff's dept and they would have come out and searched on horseback, but my husband's instincts were good and he knew our dog was with him and that our son loved to explore the woods and creek banks. If something terrible had happened we would of course have been kicking ourselves for not calling them, but we were very lucky.
There are probably many cases like ours where children are found without the help of LE. Sadly, some are never found even WITH their help. There's no way to explain it, but I thank God every day that our son was okay.

ETA: I have to reclarify.... he was actually found within about half an hour or so, but it took at least 20 minutes or more to walk back to our house with him on his daddy's shoulders. But I knew the moment when he was found because the calling his name stopped and everything was quiet.

I'm so glad your son was found. Sounds like my son who loved to explore the woods. Remember of playing hide & seek with him as a small child. He was hiding and I was hunting. I hunted for 15 minutes and I could not find him. I had looked back in the house, outside everywhere and beyond, up to my in-laws who are my neighbors. After I could not find him, I panicked. I thought "oh my gosh! he went a little ways down the dirt road in front of our house and while I was counting and looking for him back in the house someone came along and snatched him!" At this point, I began running around outside screaming his name!!! All of a sudden I hear his little voice "Here I am mommy!" He was in his granddaddy's burning barrel which had a tin covering over it. He was covered in soot from head to toe, but I grabbed him and hugged him. I shall never forget that feeling.

Children love to explore. Who knows how many cases of children being lost and found and not reported?

 

[Bootsctr]

BBL! Please let there be some news.

 

[katydid23]

I agree, and I think the kids were willing. They had been groomed by this person or they were familiar enough with him they went willingly.... he probably assured them he would have them back in time to be able to leave with the grandmother.

I agree. I think the girls went to the lakeside trail because they expected to meet someone there. They left their bikes there on purpose. imo

 

[Simp]

HC went to the PD and filed a report which they received at 2:47, they went to the house (possibly to see if they may have been located yet) and were at the lake at right around 3:00. I would guess that they talked to WC for a few minutes to get more background since she was with them, possibly talked to a few potential witnesses and began searching. The bikes were found at somewhere between 3:30 and 3:58, I read both times. It is possible that the FD found them at ~3:30 and the LE spokesman (my mind just when completely blank when I was going to write his name) may have gotten there at 3:58... he wasn't always real clear about what he was saying.

I'm sure this has been discussed along with everything else, but I need someone to remind me. HC at PD reporting girls missing at 2:47. How in the world did police wind up at Meyers Lake area at 3:00?? I see in the above comment police went to the Collins home (which makes dang good sense) but yet at the lake at 3:00? Now I'm sure there was more than one officer involved but how did they wind up at Meyer's Lake in just 13 minutes? Isn't Meyers Lake a little over a mile from the Collins' home? Remember, at this point (3:00) we didn't know the bikes were at Meyers Lake. IIRC it was even stated in MSM police were "swarming" Meyers Lake area at 3:00. What or who led us to the lake in the first place?? Why didn't LE (as a group) originate the search on Brovan and kinda spread outwards? It just seems odd to me that this search went so quickly to Meyers Lake and low and behold that's where the bikes were found.
As I said in the beginning of this post, I'm sure this has been discussed, but someone remind me why "we" decided the search went to the lake so quickly.
TIA

 

[Sunlight]

I'm sure this has been discussed along with everything else, but I need someone to remind me. HC at PD reporting girls missing at 2:47. How in the world did police wind up at Meyers Lake area at 3:00?? I see in the above comment police went to the Collins home (which makes dang good sense) but yet at the lake at 3:00? Now I'm sure there was more than one officer involved but how did they wind up at Meyer's Lake in just 13 minutes? Isn't Meyers Lake a little over a mile from the Collins' home? Remember, at this point (3:00) we didn't know the bikes were at Meyers Lake. IIRC it was even stated in MSM police were "swarming" Meyers Lake area at 3:00. What or who led us to the lake in the first place?? Why didn't LE (as a group) originate the search on Brovan and kinda spread outwards? It just seems odd to me that this search went so quickly to Meyers Lake and low and behold that's where the bikes were found.
As I said in the beginning of this post, I'm sure this has been discussed, but someone remind me why "we" decided the search went to the lake so quickly.
TIA

I'm not sure of the exact details, but TB said in the interview that she had said to go to the lake. TB was at the lake, perhaps with Gma?, Heather?...She said she started asking people if they had seen the girls on bikes, and that is when the one guy said he saw the two little girls riding around the lake at 2:30 (perhaps he was the paddleboater and maybe LE could never locate him, because she said that LE had his name...or maybe he was a cyclist or a jogger) Now, I'm not sure of the wording...was he saying he saw them at 2:30 or was she saying it was about 2:30 when she spoke with him? Anyway, I think that is about when Heather decided to go tell LE. So, I think at that point they had this idea that the lake was definitely the place to look...I imagine the reason TB first thought to go to the lake in the first place was because she knew the girls had been there before with the neighborhood kids. Or...something else. I dunno. MOO

 

[Reverie]

I'm not sure of the exact details, but TB said in the interview that she had said to go to the lake. TB was at the lake, perhaps with Gma?, Heather?...She said she started asking people if they had seen the girls on bikes, and that is when the one guy said he saw the two little girls riding around the lake at 2:30 (perhaps he was the paddleboater and maybe LE could never locate him, because she said that LE had his name...or maybe he was a cyclist or a jogger) Now, I'm not sure of the wording...was he saying he saw them at 2:30 or was she saying it was about 2:30 when she spoke with him? Anyway, I think that is about when Heather decided to go tell LE. So, I think at that point they had this idea that the lake was definitely the place to look...I imagine the reason TB first thought to go to the lake in the first place was because she knew the girls had been there before with the neighborhood kids. Or...something else. I dunno. MOO

IIRC, TB stated to look at Meyers lake right off the bat. Her daughter and Lyric had ridden to the lake before.

 

[Confusion]

I'm sure this has been discussed along with everything else, but I need someone to remind me. HC at PD reporting girls missing at 2:47. How in the world did police wind up at Meyers Lake area at 3:00?? I see in the above comment police went to the Collins home (which makes dang good sense) but yet at the lake at 3:00? Now I'm sure there was more than one officer involved but how did they wind up at Meyer's Lake in just 13 minutes? Isn't Meyers Lake a little over a mile from the Collins' home? Remember, at this point (3:00) we didn't know the bikes were at Meyers Lake. IIRC it was even stated in MSM police were "swarming" Meyers Lake area at 3:00. What or who led us to the lake in the first place?? Why didn't LE (as a group) originate the search on Brovan and kinda spread outwards? It just seems odd to me that this search went so quickly to Meyers Lake and low and behold that's where the bikes were found.
As I said in the beginning of this post, I'm sure this has been discussed, but someone remind me why "we" decided the search went to the lake so quickly.
TIA

I'm not sure if anything definitive was ever said by LE or family, and I'm not sure if "we" have ever totally agreed on anything here - there have even been disagreements from locals about the weather! My response is just that, Mine. I'm sure there are others who have a completely different answer.

Drew was home with the little girls, KC was with WC and company. Under the circumstances, I'd be very surprised if he didn't keep in close contact with those who were searching. I'm guessing that WC, or one of the others with her, told him what they had been told by possible witnesses, and he probably told LE when they came to the house after HC filed the report.

 

[Sunlight]

I'm really wondering now about that mystery witness TB spoke with at the lake. When TB talked about it, she said LE has his name. When did LE obtain his name..from her? When did she relate this story? Was it the next day, or days later? The timing is interesting. Did he tell her he saw them at 2:30 or did he tell her he saw them (at 2:30). What time did he tell her that? Does this have something to do with what the white van guy at Casey's might have seen while at Casey's? I'm repeating myself...and I know this has probably been discussed, but it is bothering me. The timing is bothering me. I can't put my finger on it exactly.