IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #16

[callyn]

I can't watch movies like that. I'm just not brave enough to do it.

I think maybe brave isn't the word, foolish would fit better. I decided that I would advance it through anything that was too awful, but the way this movie is made, it was bearable.

 

[nikb]

I don't know if any of us actually know if there was a runner. Could TB have spoken to TG. Could TG be the runner and the biker? Could TB assume that TG was a runner because he didn't have his bike with him when she encountered him, but he was dressed in training gear, so she assumed he was a jogger? Was TG at the scene on Friday or was he already gone and did he not come forward until Monday? Could FBI have just been generalizing on the type of athletic activity and call a biker a runner? Could the pinpointed time be TG's time that FBI is referring to?

All of these questions are not sleuthing TG, but rather designed to ask if there are two people that saw the bikes/girls or just one person being referred to differently.

The only sticking point for me is that it's 2 hours later (give or take), and it sounded like the phone call to his daughter was when he was done with his bike ride. I also think he probably wouldn't have waited so long to contact LE if he'd encountered both the bikes AND the frantic family member.

I definitely don't think the anyone in LE mis-spoke on this or called a biker a runner, although I did propose sometime yesterday that "runs around the lake" could be construed as "runs [i.e. on foot] around the lake" or "runs around the lake [on his bike]". Aunt T...maybe.

 

[Robyn623]

I'm really far behind so I don't know if this has been mentioned or not. I apologize if it has. I took the kids to an Iowa Cubs game today in Des Moines and my son got a signed baseball from the mascot. If you get a signed ball or catch a foul ball you can take it to this one area and get a free plastic display case for your ball. While there I noticed that they had a poster displayed for Elizabeth & Lyric! I don't know if they had them other places around Principal Park but I was glad to at least see one poster!

 

[otto]

 

[ShyViolet]

So since we are on the subject of this empty house, is it true that it has a connection to the girls through MCM's boyfriend? Or is that not verified?

Not the father, or an uncle. Beyond that, don't know.

 

[Confusion]

You people seem to do pretty good with coming up with the whys, etc. so I'll just try another how and the blanks can be filled in with whatever reasons fit for the girls to do things (and for the perps, unless something comes to me before I finish.)

The girls were riding around in their allowed area, and met up with "someone" who told them about "something" at the lake. They rushed down there to get a look after seeing if grandma was looking for them yet. They hurried down the bike trail to the area by the double fence, dropped their bikes and took off to see "it." A minute or so later, TG rides by and sees their bikes laying on the path, swerves to go around them and continues his ride.

While in the woods/by the jeddy/up a tree/whatever "someone" comes along and invites them to a house for a quick glass of juice/water/v8/whatever before they have to go back. The girls ride over to the house with "someone" and are taken from the house by "more someones". Once everything is ready to go, 2 smaller female "someones" ride the girls' bikes over to the gate (being seen by the mystery man) and leave them, and either leave Elizabeth's purse there, or don't notice that she had dropped it there.

When that's all taken care of, they walk back to the clearing/maidens lane/wherever to meet the partner/s and the girls, get in and they all leave. All I need is names for the someones and somethings, the address of the house, and a destination for them after leaving the bikes and I'll have another full blown wrong scenario!

 

[Jules71]

I was just thinking... Breault was totally reading a statement during that press conference. Maybe it was written wrong (regularly runs instead of regularly rides). I think it would be odd to have one man who regularly rides and one man who regularly runs and they each saw the bikes but not the girls and were each able to pinpoint the time.

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[Jax49]

Thank you.

 

[nikb]

As I understand it, TG did not speak to anyone at the lake on the 13th. It was the next day when his daughter saw the news about the abduction, and rememebered her conversation with her father about him just missing the bikes, that he realized he should let LE know about what he had seen.

The following Monday actually, so roughly 3 days later. But my impression was the same as yours about him not speaking to anyone at the lake until later. The quote's posted earlier in this thread somewhere.

 

[lemon]

There was a case within the last 40 years in Western Canada where a young girl was grabbed, kept in a bunker under a man's garage for quite awhile, and lived. I think she was grabbed as she walked down the alley behind his place. The demon had his hellhole all ready when he grabbed his victim. She was quite young, around 12, and he kept her alive. Of course he was a pervert. She was rescued I believe when either someone nearby heard her calling for help, or the man's wife in their home became suspicious. It is a long time ago, and it was around Vancouver, N. Vancouver, on the west coast of Canada. The girl was rescued, alive, and was on the news a few years ago speaking abit of what happened. She is married and has children. God Bless her. I believe she had Angels with her, as I pray Luric and Lizzie have with them. Praying the girls are alive and will be rescued soon.

Abby Drover. She was walking to school and her neighbor, her playmate's stepfather, abducted her and kept her in a room he made under a cupboard in his garage. She was in there for 181 days and he even went to jail during that time, if I'm not mistaken. She was rescued because his wife called for him and he didn't answer (he was in the secret room with Abby). The wife tried the garage door and it was locked so she thought he had killed himself and called police. The police came and found him crawling out of the cupboard and discovered Abby.

I had thought of her story when thinking about Lyric and Elizabeth, too. It's a somewhat rare M.O., but it's happened more than once. I'd say it's possible.

 

[mahoolin]

This is what I was implying about two pages back on this thread. Seems very odd to me too.

Yes, a couple of posts got my mind thinking - yours was one of them. I hope I didn't regurgitate your thoughts into my post.... Didn't mean to if it seemed that way. Sometimes takes me so long to type and make corrections on this ipad oodles of posts have passed me by, and I've forgotten my theory, lol!

 

[CHERIE.T]

Otto, I've wanted to say thank you for all the maps you made. They help me a lot.
Using the above map can you tell me where the girls likely entered the area?

 

[otto]

You people seem to do pretty good with coming up with the whys, etc. so I'll just try another how and the blanks can be filled in with whatever reasons fit for the girls to do things (and for the perps, unless something comes to me before I finish.)

The girls were riding around in their allowed area, and met up with "someone" who told them about "something" at the lake. They rushed down there to get a look after seeing if grandma was looking for them yet. They hurried down the bike trail to the area by the double fence, dropped their bikes and took off to see "it." A minute or so later, TG rides by and sees their bikes laying on the path, swerves to go around them and continues his ride.

While in the woods/by the jeddy/up a tree/whatever "someone" comes along and invites them to a house for a quick glass of juice/water/v8/whatever before they have to go back. The girls ride over to the house with "someone" and are taken from the house by "more someones". Once everything is ready to go, 2 smaller female "someones" ride the girls' bikes over to the gate (being seen by the mystery man) and leave them, and either leave Elizabeth's purse there, or don't notice that she had dropped it there.

When that's all taken care of, they walk back to the clearing/maidens lane/wherever to meet the partner/s and the girls, get in and they all leave. All I need is names for the someones and somethings, the address of the house, and a destination for them after leaving the bikes and I'll have another full blown wrong scenario!

Let's think this through. The house is empty and it is for sale. That would mean that there's a lock box at the house and that anyone could enter the home at any time without notice. How likely is it that someone related to the owner is going to take two children to an empty house that anyone can enter and offer them anything.

 

[mahoolin]

I think maybe brave isn't the word, foolish would fit better. I decided that I would advance it through anything that was too awful, but the way this movie is made, it was bearable.

I read the book years ago, it broke my heart....

 

[CHERIE.T]

You people seem to do pretty good with coming up with the whys, etc. so I'll just try another how and the blanks can be filled in with whatever reasons fit for the girls to do things (and for the perps, unless something comes to me before I finish.)

The girls were riding around in their allowed area, and met up with "someone" who told them about "something" at the lake. They rushed down there to get a look after seeing if grandma was looking for them yet. They hurried down the bike trail to the area by the double fence, dropped their bikes and took off to see "it." A minute or so later, TG rides by and sees their bikes laying on the path, swerves to go around them and continues his ride.

While in the woods/by the jeddy/up a tree/whatever "someone" comes along and invites them to a house for a quick glass of juice/water/v8/whatever before they have to go back. The girls ride over to the house with "someone" and are taken from the house by "more someones". Once everything is ready to go, 2 smaller female "someones" ride the girls' bikes over to the gate (being seen by the mystery man) and leave them, and either leave Elizabeth's purse there, or don't notice that she had dropped it there.

When that's all taken care of, they walk back to the clearing/maidens lane/wherever to meet the partner/s and the girls, get in and they all leave. All I need is names for the someones and somethings, the address of the house, and a destination for them after leaving the bikes and I'll have another full blown wrong scenario!

You're thinking there possibly 4 perps? Tia

 

[Confusion]

Let's think this through. The house is empty and it is for sale. That would mean that there's a lock box at the house and that anyone could enter the home at any time without notice. How likely is it that someone related to the owner is going to take two children to an empty house that anyone can enter and offer them anything.

It wouldn't have to be an empty house, one or more of them could live on or very close to the lake.

 

[Beyond Belief]

Did we ever get information about how the girls spent the 4th of July? Did the town have activities down at this lake?

 

[Jules71]

Thanks for doing this. I think it will help a lot. Dan said he was told the bikes were facing west. So if the man Tammy talked to said the girls were riding west from the parking lot then they would have had to turn around down by the grassy area or somewhere past where the bikes were found to be facing west when they got off their bikes. Unless the bikes were staged facing that direction for a reason.

But if they had come down Lake Ave past Mr. C's house then that would make sense for their bikes to be facing west. And so then the 2:30 witness was wrong or doesn't exist. See the thing is it would not be logical to be heading east on bikes from the parking lot because the trail is not there.

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[mahoolin]

I was just thinking... Breault was totally reading a statement during that press conference. Maybe it was written wrong (regularly runs instead of regularly rides). I think it would be odd to have one man who regularly rides and one man who regularly runs and they each saw the bikes but not the girls and were each able to pinpoint the time.

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True, but guess it could happen, since the complete official timeline is being held under wraps. Maybe the two athletes crossed each other's path as they were coming and going? Lol Hmmm :waitasec:

 

[Confusion]

You're thinking there possibly 4 perps? Tia

It's hard to say since it's a rough draft of an idea. I would think at least 2 females (or small males), 1 driver, and possibly someone else to watch the girls while the vehicle is moving. If they were tied, drugged, put in the trunk or subdued some other way, it could just be 3. I don't see 2 of them doing it, taking the bikes all the way to the gate and walking back while the girls are left unattended.