IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #18

[Jax49]

From today, video of 17 year old attempting an abduction of girl in Oregon.
http://www.ksee24.com/video/Caught-on-Cam-Attempted-Abduction-167784535.html

What is wrong with this world.

Score one for the good guys. Momma wasn't having none of it!!!!!

 

[dotr]

From August 22( older white man)
http://fox8.com/2012/08/22/middle-school-student-reports-attempted-abduction/

AMHERST, Ohio — An 11-year-old girl reported an attempted abduction outside Amherst Middle School Wednesday afternoon.

The girl left school at approximately 3:10 p.m. and was walking south on Lincoln Street when she says she was approached by a man driving a full-size blue van. He told her to get in the van, after which she ran back to school and reported the incident

 

[nikb]

From today, video of 17 year old attempting an abduction of girl in Oregon.
http://www.ksee24.com/video/Caught-on-Cam-Attempted-Abduction-167784535.html

OT but WOW! For about 10 different reasons. The whole time I was reading/watching thinking "Go Mom!" "Go neighbors!" I hope the Mom doesn't end up getting into trouble over this. I'm happy they saved this little girl from a potentially awful fate. Thanks for sharing the story.

 

[Jax49]

OT but WOW! For about 10 different reasons. The whole time I was reading/watching thinking "Go Mom!" "Go neighbors!" I hope the Mom doesn't end up getting into trouble over this. I'm happy they saved this little girl from a potentially awful fate. Thanks for sharing the story.

OT

If I understood the story correctly the mother was right there when the pervert grabbed the girl. Just think if she'd been out of site for even a minute--that little girl would be gone.

 

[nikb]

If I understood the story correctly the mother was right there when the pervert grabbed the girl. Just think if she'd been out of site for even a minute--that little girl would be gone.

I know! I was thinking back to Jaycee and how her stepfather watched her being abducted and then chased the car on his bike. If he'd been a bit closer, things might have turned out so differently. Same here, if the mother hadn't heard a questionable noise and checked it out, the little girl would be gone for sure.

 

[iamnotagolem]

Quick google search gives this:

"K** says authorities contacted the FBI right away, and he was interviewed by authorities in Evansdale. The FBI says K** was very cooperative from the very beginning and is not a suspect."

http://www.kwwl.com/story/19174082/...sing-girls-investigation?clienttype=printable

Thank you. I remember that statement, it states he is not a suspect, not that he has been cleared. IIRC they have not cleared anyone.

 

[Jules71]

:waitasec:

Family members, police still urgently searching for missing Iowa girls

22 August 2012

But law enforcement officials want to reassure the public that everything that can be done is being done to find the girls. Tips continue to come in, and leads are thoroughly investigated — some multiple times.

“It’s still our top priority, and we’re using all resources available to find the girls,” said Evansdale Police Chief Kent Smock on Tuesday. “It’s easy to see why some people get frustrated not seeing action … but there’s plenty being done behind the scenes.”


Investigators are paying close attention to reports of attempted child abductions statewide and nationally, Smock said, including anything involving vans of any color. Reports of white vans in particular have surfaced in several towns, including Cedar Rapids.

Police questioned a man driving a white Chevy Astro van in Evansdale the day the girls vanished, but there was no connection.

“We’re looking at everything. There’s nothing concrete,” Smock said.

http://thegazette.com/2012/08/22/fa...ll-urgently-searching-for-missing-iowa-girls/


HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM....So, are they (LE) Looking for Vans ........... now???? :waitasec:

Maybe I am reading to much into it...

I really do think they have some reason to believe a white van was involved. But it could have been painted since then.

But then again maybe it's just a wild guess since there have been other abduction attempts involving vans.

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2

 

[Jax49]

I really do think they have some reason to believe a white van was involved. But it could have been painted since then.

But then again maybe it's just a wild guess since there have been other abduction attempts involving vans.

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2

IIRC, Mr Pahl said every vehicle on the video footage was noted by LE, so maybe they saw one. But I believe Abben later said they only questioned the 'white van man', who had been at Casey's, because of all the reported attempts.

I sure hope they have a reason to believe a van was involved. At this point, I'll take any tiny bit of hope anyone offers.......................lease:

 

[dotr]

Aug. 14, Maine, video.
White truck looked like (fake) icecream truck!!
http://www.wcsh6.com/news/article/210688/2/Bridgton-Police-investigate-attempted-child-abduction

BRIDGTON, Maine (NEWS CENTER) -- Police in Bridgton are investigating the attempted abduction of a 9-year old girl over the weekend. It happened at a swimming hole on Kansas Road.

A family friend told us that the 9-year old was just meeting up with her friends when the man approached her. Police say she described her attacker as a slightly overweight white man with white hair. He tried to pull her into his vehicle, a white paneled van that looks like an ice cream truck. Police also say there may have been a homemade sign on the truck, advertising ice cream.

 

[nikb]

Hmm.. was trying to figure out the whole Florida question and haven't found anything yet but I did run across this article from the early days
http://www./283452/missing-iowa-girls-investigation-cops-may-have-a-witness/
A few interesting things, BBM (and ahem yes I'm sorry about the paddle boat thing again... for the record another WebSleuth member contacted LE and confirmed it's the kind you propel with your feet on pedals, not the kind you row with oars):

Now, an FBI spokeswoman said that investigators are planning on interviewing a person who was reportedly paddle boating on the lake around the time that the girls vanished.

“They believe that person has information,” said FBI spokeswoman Sandy Breault. “They really do need to talk with the person.”

Breault said that though this person may have first-hand knowledge of the alleged abduction, he or she is not considered a suspect.​

The bolded parts struck me and I didn't notice them before. They were "planning on interviewing this person". Not, say, asking this person to come forward like they did with the van guy. It suggests to me that LE already knew who that person was/is. That's a reporter's paraphrasing so I know the accuracy is questionable, but I thought it was an interesting choice of words. Also noticed they were fairly specific on saying "he or she" (which is smart I think, but a good reminder to all of us not to automatically assume it's a male who did whatever happened)

 

[nikb]

Another one of the early stories, interesting (IMO) parts BBM with my comments in brackets.

http://news92fm.com/262304/police-have-no-clues-in-search-for-missing-iowa-girls/

Collins and Cook vanished from Cook’s grandmother’s home around noon, and were reported missing about three hours later.​

[what?! this sure has changed over time IMO.]​

Tammy Brousseau, Cook’s aunt, says she knew what to do if a stranger approached her.

“I taught her myself if they got a hold of your arm, drop to the ground, kick, bite, scream, do everything you can,” said Brousseau.​

[since it's been stated several times there was nothing to indicate a struggle, this goes back IMO to the abductor being someone they knew, most likely.]​

 

[GrainneDhu]

Another one of the early stories, interesting (IMO) parts BBM with my comments in brackets.

http://news92fm.com/262304/police-have-no-clues-in-search-for-missing-iowa-girls/

Collins and Cook vanished from Cook’s grandmother’s home around noon, and were reported missing about three hours later.​

[what?! this sure has changed over time IMO.]​

Tammy Brousseau, Cook’s aunt, says she knew what to do if a stranger approached her.

“I taught her myself if they got a hold of your arm, drop to the ground, kick, bite, scream, do everything you can,” said Brousseau.​

[since it's been stated several times there was nothing to indicate a struggle, this goes back IMO to the abductor being someone they knew, most likely.]​

People think that teaching a child once, twice, several times to fight back will be effective. But there's all sorts of evidence that such teaching is not effective.

I always bring out this example because I think it speaks so directly to the problem. Studies of soldiers in battle from WWII, the Korean War and the Vietnam War show that only 10% of all soldiers on the battlefield shoot to kill the enemy.

We're not talking an 8 year old and 10 year old here. We're talking soldiers who have been through military basic training and who are in a situation where it is very clear their lives are in danger. And even so, only 10% of them actually try to kill the enemy.

Does anyone here think that Aunt TB took the girls for 16 weeks and spent all day every day teaching them to fight back? I don't and I think it would be considered child abuse to do so. In the US, we no longer expect children to do adult jobs.

So if the military can't reliably turn out a killer in 16 weeks of 24/7 effort, why does anyone think that one amateur dealing with two young girls would do so much better?

The military also has no way to predict which soldiers will fight back effectively. If they could predict that, then they could greatly streamline training techniques and job assignments. So saying that a given child would fight back because that child is feisty or stubborn is misguided.

There have been several posters to these threads who have recounted being attacked and they said that they did not fight back. In my opinion, that is completely normal and is what most people would do. As a society we start inhibiting our children from aggressive responses very early. We tell our children "use your words." We tell our children that it isn't okay to hit another child.

Is this bad? I don't think so! I think it is one of the foundations of having a civilised society, that the vast majority of members use their words rather than just resorting to fists when a co-worker hums that stupid song again.

But it does mean we have to accept that it is normal for people under attack to be inhibited from a physical response.

 

[SapphireSteel]

The best strategy to teach for situations like this is to never leave with the abductor.

Kick, scream, fight, bite, be silent and run at the last second...instinct will take over regardless of what defence strategies have been learnt...its more important to teach your loved ones to NOT GET IN THE CAR.

Essentially teach flight, rather than fight. Statistically, you are done if you leave the site of the abduction.

 

[Meri]

The best strategy to teach for situations like this is to never leave with the abductor.

Kick, scream, fight, bite, be silent and run at the last second...instinct will take over regardless of what defence strategies have been learnt...its more important to teach your loved ones to NOT GET IN THE CAR.

Essentially teach flight, rather than fight. Statistically, you are done if you leave the site of the abduction.

I agree. I have always told my daughter (17 now) that if she is going to die, may as well be by the gun the perp is holding on her outside of the car, because once she gets IN the car, her death will not be as clean as a gunshot wound and likely will involve horrendous acts first. Nice conversation to have, right?

 

[CHERIE.T]

:waitasec:

Family members, police still urgently searching for missing Iowa girls

22 August 2012

But law enforcement officials want to reassure the public that everything that can be done is being done to find the girls. Tips continue to come in, and leads are thoroughly investigated — some multiple times.

“It’s still our top priority, and we’re using all resources available to find the girls,” said Evansdale Police Chief Kent Smock on Tuesday. “It’s easy to see why some people get frustrated not seeing action … but there’s plenty being done behind the scenes.”


Investigators are paying close attention to reports of attempted child abductions statewide and nationally, Smock said, including anything involving vans of any color. Reports of white vans in particular have surfaced in several towns, including Cedar Rapids.

Police questioned a man driving a white Chevy Astro van in Evansdale the day the girls vanished, but there was no connection.

“We’re looking at everything. There’s nothing concrete,” Smock said.

http://thegazette.com/2012/08/22/fa...ll-urgently-searching-for-missing-iowa-girls/


HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM....So, are they (LE) Looking for Vans ........... now???? :waitasec:

Maybe I am reading to much into it...

This is dated the 22 and it's the 29!
Wonder if there's anything new this week?
I'm always holding hope and a prayer for these girls.
IMO

 

[nikb]

Sorry everyone but I have to give up on the search for any further Florida connections - I just can't find much. Hope someone has better luck than I did! I can recall a few references to Florida but they were pretty loosely linked to the case (if linked at all).

- IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, and Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #16 where Sunlight suggested maybe they were on a extended Disney vacation with someone they know or trust (don't we all wish?!).

- There were posts here that someone who was linked to the family - I'm not even sure who it is based on the initials - was visiting Disneworld. IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, and Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #9 is one of the posts.

- IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, and Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #9 Aunt T. is quoted/paraphrased as saying something to the effect of Evansdale not being a big city like Orlando.

- A week or two ago there were some drug/meth-related arrests made I believe, but I've never seen anything that tied those to this case.

 

[CHERIE.T]

Sorry everyone but I have to give up on the search for any further Florida connections - I just can't find much. Hope someone has better luck than I did! I can recall a few references to Florida but they were pretty loosely linked to the case (if linked at all).

- IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, and Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #16 where Sunlight suggested maybe they were on a extended Disney vacation with someone they know or trust (don't we all wish?!).

- There were posts here that someone who was linked to the family - I'm not even sure who it is based on the initials - was visiting Disneworld. IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, and Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #9 is one of the posts.

- IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, and Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #9 Aunt T. is quoted/paraphrased as saying something to the effect of Evansdale not being a big city like Orlando.

- A week or two ago there were some drug/meth-related arrests made I believe, but I've never seen anything that tied those to this case.

I appreciate you looking!

 

[hambirg]

Sorry everyone but I have to give up on the search for any further Florida connections - I just can't find much. Hope someone has better luck than I did! I can recall a few references to Florida but they were pretty loosely linked to the case (if linked at all).

- IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, and Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #16 where Sunlight suggested maybe they were on a extended Disney vacation with someone they know or trust (don't we all wish?!).

- There were posts here that someone who was linked to the family - I'm not even sure who it is based on the initials - was visiting Disneworld. IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, and Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #9 is one of the posts.

- IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, and Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #9 Aunt T. is quoted/paraphrased as saying something to the effect of Evansdale not being a big city like Orlando.

- A week or two ago there were some drug/meth-related arrests made I believe, but I've never seen anything that tied those to this case.

I vaguely remember someone posting about a family member who abducted their own kids (I think) and they were found in a hotel in FL. IIRC the kids were still very young and it sounded like it was some kind of custody dispute. Does that ring any bells?

 

[otto]

Another one of the early stories, interesting (IMO) parts BBM with my comments in brackets.

http://news92fm.com/262304/police-have-no-clues-in-search-for-missing-iowa-girls/

Collins and Cook vanished from Cook’s grandmother’s home around noon, and were reported missing about three hours later.​

[what?! this sure has changed over time IMO.]​

Tammy Brousseau, Cook’s aunt, says she knew what to do if a stranger approached her.

“I taught her myself if they got a hold of your arm, drop to the ground, kick, bite, scream, do everything you can,” said Brousseau.​

[since it's been stated several times there was nothing to indicate a struggle, this goes back IMO to the abductor being someone they knew, most likely.]​

It could also be a simple matter of being unable to translate instruction and theory to action and practice.

 

[tlcya]

It could also be a simple matter of being unable to translate instruction and theory to action and practice.

Or a simple matter of never having discussed (been instructed) as to what to do when a bad person has just grabbed your cousin and is threatening HER life if you fail to cooperate or if you fight/run/cry out in any way.

I can imagine that would throw a child for a loop, even one who had extensive instruction on what to do if approached. Given the introduction of another victim into the mix, a child could be paralyzed, unable to discern what to do with that situation.