IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #18

[otto]

In the first thread for the girls, there were links to Black Hawk County court documents that, as I recall, indicated the Collinses had custody of Lyric for about 18 months. After that, Grandma Cook had custody of her.

Thanks ... so she'd know the other children in the neighborhood, but she would have been visiting that day.

 

[CHERIE.T]

www.hlntv.com/article/2012/07/17/missing-girls-grandmother
"They would have never went in that water and swam and come home dripping wet.
I don't think they would even know the way to Myers Lake."
Wilma Cook told Nancy Grace....

 

[Sunlight]

The post office, referenced by the grandmother regarding how far they would go.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: When they`ve gone off before, how long did they usually stay out? And would they stay more in the immediate area?

COOK: Yes. It was just like where the post office used to be and a parking lot and then up and down the street, maybe a little ways down on the other side. And they`d come back and check in.

And they were always thirsty, wanted a V-8 juice or something to drink. And then maybe they`d go out for a short 10-minute ride again or something. But it wasn`t a regular basis every day that I would let them go.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wilma, did you see them bike off? Did you see them get on their bikes and head out?

COOK: Yes. And they went to the parking lot where the post office is.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1207/17/ijvm.01.html

Gma says, "where the post office used to be". Do you think that is the same location as the one on the map? I just noticed that. MOO

 

[CHERIE.T]

So ... a known sex offender, or abducted for non-sexual reasons? If the latter, what would be the reason for the abduction?

Nope...ever heard of a first time kidnapper? or
What about a kidnapper that's never been caught before?
FWIW, Children HAVE been kidnapped and NOT sexually abused.
moooooooo

 

[otto]

The girl's family members said the lake was dirty and they knew the girls wouldn't swim there.

People drowning is a nonissue. Making a mountain out of a molehill doesn't make it so.

There was a drainage pipe at that location. They could have been exploring the pipe and slipped ... there were several early posts about adventurous children exploring the area. The lake is 28 acres (iirc) and about 30 feet deep in some locations (not sure, but that's more or less what I remember). The drainage would have suction, as it drains to Cedar River ... drowning was a possibility.

 

[otto]

Is "A" where the post office used to be?

Yes. The post office was closed in October, 2011.

December 16, 2011

"The announcement came two months too late for Evansdale residents still fighting to save their post office. The cash-strapped postal service closed the Evansdale location, a branch of the Waterloo Post Office, on Oct. 21."

http://wcfcourier.com/business/loca...cle_880b1ead-a887-52b0-b8e9-202c2fc0e138.html

 

[CHERIE.T]

There was a drainage pipe at that location. They could have been exploring the pipe and slipped ... there were several early posts about adventurous children exploring the area. The lake is 28 acres (iirc) and about 30 feet deep in some locations (not sure, but that's more or less what I remember). The drainage would have suction, as it drains to Cedar River ... drowning was a possibility.

I highly doubt two children would get sucked into drainage pipes.
I've lived on a lake 20'years, our lake also has drainage pipes....never has a child or adult drowned there.
Oh and Thanks for correcting me again.
mooooooo

 

[otto]

Gma says, "where the post office used to be". Do you think that is the same location as the one on the map? I just noticed that. MOO

It closed in October, so it must be the one she's referring to. It was costing too much money to keep it open, so it was permanently closed. Evansdale residents now have to use the Waterloo office.

 

[Sunlight]

Maybe they are in Los Angeles, or Houston, or Orlando, or Atlanta...

I think there is a chance they are alive. MOO

 

[SapphireSteel]

So ... a known sex offender, or abducted for non-sexual reasons? If the latter, what would be the reason for the abduction?

Per CARP -

From a motivation perspective, nonfamily abductions can be divided into six broadcategories:•

Sexual:

Children abducted primarily for the sexual gratification of the offender.•

Killing

: Children abducted to be killed by the offender. For some individuals, theact of killing itself may bring arousal and/or gratification.•

Nontraditional:

Usually very young children abducted predominately by women tofill a perceived void in the offender’s life.•

Ransom:

Children abducted to obtain financial benefit from the victim’s family.These are usually solved because the abductor must make some contact with thefamily.•

Profit:

Children abducted to obtain financial benefit from a third party. Mostfor-profit trafficking in children involves buying (not abducting) children from parentsor legal guardians. Cases involving some kind of deception (e.g., telling mother her baby died at birth) are less rare.

Summed up nicely for me, thank you FBI.

Under my theory you can rule out sexual, killing, non traditional, and ransom, so what are you left with?

Profit.

Who would, or could, gain from these two particular children going missing? There may be a combination of pay offs or "profits" to the offender/s. It may not be necessarily financial gain either, but a benefit in some other way. You could put leverage in this category, for example revenge.

:cow:

 

[CHERIE.T]

Maybe they are in Los Angeles, or Houston, or Orlando, or Atlanta...

I think there is a chance they are alive. MOO

Is there a particular reason you think they may be in those cities?
Tia :moo:

 

[Considering]

Yes. The post office was closed in October, 2011.

December 16, 2011

"The announcement came two months too late for Evansdale residents still fighting to save their post office. The cash-strapped postal service closed the Evansdale location, a branch of the Waterloo Post Office, on Oct. 21."

http://wcfcourier.com/business/loca...cle_880b1ead-a887-52b0-b8e9-202c2fc0e138.html

I promise that I'm not meaning to be picky. I just thought I'd say that I believe it was actually located in the strip mall behind that building.

 

[CHERIE.T]

Per CARP -

From a motivation perspective, nonfamily abductions can be divided into six broadcategories:•

Sexual:

Children abducted primarily for the sexual gratification of the offender.•

Killing

: Children abducted to be killed by the offender. For some individuals, theact of killing itself may bring arousal and/or gratification.•

Nontraditional:

Usually very young children abducted predominately by women tofill a perceived void in the offender’s life.•

Ransom:

Children abducted to obtain financial benefit from the victim’s family.These are usually solved because the abductor must make some contact with thefamily.•

Profit:

Children abducted to obtain financial benefit from a third party. Mostfor-profit trafficking in children involves buying (not abducting) children from parentsor legal guardians. Cases involving some kind of deception (e.g., telling mother her baby died at birth) are less rare.

Summed up nicely for me, thank you FBI.

Under my theory you can rule out sexual, killing, non traditional, and ransom, so what are you left with?

Profit.

Who would, or could, gain from these two particular children going missing? There may be a combination of pay offs or "profits" to the offender/s. It may not be necessarily financial gain either, but a benefit in some other way. You could put leverage in this category, for example revenge.

:cow:

Summed up very nicely IMO.
Good solid info too!

 

[otto]

Nope...ever heard of a first time kidnapper? or
What about a kidnapper that's never been caught before?
FWIW, Children HAVE been kidnapped and NOT sexually abused.
moooooooo

likely: random child predator
The location of the bikes suggests a devious mind ... imo

unlikely: ransom
Kidnapped children have certainly been held for a ransom, but I don't think that happened here. There is no ransom. There is no good reason to abduct 8 and 10 year old girls ... it starts with the cruelty of taking them from their families and cannot improve.

unlikely: hit
I doubt they are the victims of a "hit" ... that seems preposterous ... that someone would put a hit on an 8 year old girl with an ill mother

 

[otto]

I highly doubt two children would get sucked into drainage pipes.
I've lived on a lake 20'years, our lake also has drainage pipes....never has a child or adult drowned there.
Oh and Thanks for correcting me again.
mooooooo

I don't mean to correct anything ... I'm simply exploring this case from every angle that I can think of. It simply doesn't make sense ... yet. The early threads have a lot of discussion about the drainage pipe. When the lake was drained, someone stood at the end of the drain to see if anything came out. Nothing ... not even a shoe ... but it's good that they searched. They also searched the Cedar River on the other side of the draimage pipe. Everyone was looking for them anywhere they could think to look. Flipflops were being reported behind dumpsters. I don't think that searching the lake interfered witht he rest of the investigation. The FBI were there on the 18th, before the lake was drained ... so the investigation was moving forward in several directions simultaneously.

 

[CHERIE.T]

likely: random child predator
The location of the bikes suggests a devious mind ... imo

unlikely: ransom
Kidnapped children have certainly been held for a ransom, but I don't think that happened here. There is no ransom. There is no good reason to abduct 8 and 10 year old girls ... it starts with the cruelty of taking them from their families and cannot improve.

unlikely: hit
I doubt they are the victims of a "hit" ... that seems preposterous ... that someone would put a hit on an 8 year old girl with an ill mother

WE don't know if the bikes were staged at the lake OR
ridden to the lake by the girls or
ridden to the lake by someone else.
LE hasnt confirmed anything. :moo:

 

[CHERIE.T]

I don't mean to correct anything ... I'm simply exploring this case from every angle that I can think of. It simply doesn't make sense ... yet. The early threads have a lot of discussion about the drainage pipe. When the lake was drained, someone stood at the end of the drain to see if anything came out. Nothing ... not even a shoe ... but it's good that they searched. They also searched the Cedar River on the other side of the draimage pipe. Everyone was looking for them anywhere they could think to look. Flipflops were being reported behind dumpsters. I don't think that searching the lake interfered witht he rest of the investigation. The FBI were there on the 18th, before the lake was drained ... so the investigation was moving forward in several directions simultaneously.

And the investigations were done so well that the girls are STILL MISSING 8 WEEKS LATER. :moo:

 

[CHERIE.T]

I've come to the conclusion that LE either has absolutely nothing or they have perpetrator(s) in mind and under surveillance and don't want to tip them off that they are on to them. This is just insane. I feel bad for the families and can't imagine how they function at all.

bbm Once again, I agree.

 

[otto]

Per CARP -

From a motivation perspective, nonfamily abductions can be divided into six broadcategories:•

Sexual:
Children abducted primarily for the sexual gratification of the offender.•

Killing:
Children abducted to be killed by the offender. For some individuals, theact of killing itself may bring arousal and/or gratification.•

Nontraditional:
Usually very young children abducted predominately by women tofill a perceived void in the offender’s life.•

Ransom:
Children abducted to obtain financial benefit from the victim’s family.These are usually solved because the abductor must make some contact with thefamily.•

Profit:
Children abducted to obtain financial benefit from a third party. Mostfor-profit trafficking in children involves buying (not abducting) children from parentsor legal guardians. Cases involving some kind of deception (e.g., telling mother her baby died at birth) are less rare.

Summed up nicely for me, thank you FBI.
Under my theory you can rule out sexual, killing, non traditional, and ransom, so what are you left with?

Profit.

Who would, or could, gain from these two particular children going missing? There may be a combination of pay offs or "profits" to the offender/s. It may not be necessarily financial gain either, but a benefit in some other way. You could put leverage in this category, for example revenge.

:cow:

I only count five ( ... added the underlines to make it easier to count):

1. sexual gratification,
2. killing that results in sexual gratification,
3. empty womb syndrome,
4. ransom,
5. profit

The first two are sexual gratification, there was no abduction by the mother, there is no financial profit. That only leaves sexual gratification, with the difference being whether the children are alive afterward ... in this particular case.

Regarding profit, the families have no money so there is no profit in taking their children. Elizabeth's mother, who has a heart condition, was working at a convenience store while her elderly mother cared for the chidlren. That is not a family where kidnapping a child results in financial gain or profit.

 

[CHERIE.T]

I only count five:

1. sexual gratification,
2. killing that results in sexual gratification,
3. empty womb syndrome,
4. ransom,
5. profit

The first two are sexual gratification, there was no abduction by the mother, there is no financial profit. That only leaves sexual gratification, with the difference being whether the children are alive afterward ... in this particular case.

Link showing the girls were not taken for profit, tia.
IF they were sold by a kidnapper there would be profit yes?