IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #19

[GrainneDhu]

O/T but related to meth use and what it can lead to:

http://wcfcourier.com/news/article_7824519d-4d14-5013-981f-dbb2caf9d5ee.html

Snip:

As the search for two missing cousins drags on in Evansdale, Linda Christie can't help but think about what happened to her granddaughter seven years ago.

"The parallels are running just too close," said Christie, of Waterloo.

Christie's son is the father of Evelyn Miller, the 5-year-old who disappeared from a Floyd apartment July 1, 2005. She was found dead in the Cedar River days later, and the slaying remains unsolved to this day.

Snip:

Evelyn's mother's live-in boyfriend, Casey Frederiksen, was later convicted of swiping cold medicine from the Wal-Mart where he worked and passing it to methamphetamine manufacturers near Woden.

"I think somebody killed her to shut her up," Christie said of her granddaughter's unsolved murder. "She had been kidnapped, murdered and thrown in the river like a piece of trash."

I am not saying the family is involved in the abduction of Lyric and Elizabeth. There seems to be a lot of meth in the Waterloo/Evansdale area, and apparently meth causes people to do crazy things. JMO.

ETA: Here is Evelyn's WS thread: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25620&highlight=evelyn+miller

It looks like the last post was 7/6/11, so it looks like people have moved on because there hasn't been anything new. I pray this doesn't happen to Lyric and Elizabeth.

Many Iowans, including me, believe that Evelyn's killer(s) are known but LE can't find enough evidence to bring charges.

Thanks largely to Lori Arnold, actor Tom Arnold's sister, Iowa has been riddled by meth. It's not just the Waterloo/Cedar Falls area, it's all of Iowa.

http://www.thefix.com/content/how-americas-meth-queen-melted-down?page=all

Read the first paragraph description of Arnold and it is really chilling in light of her absolute lack of remorse or regret.

 

[goaskalice]

Thank you :yes:


I really think they would have NOT gone there with out at least check in,

I have 10 children and work with Many many more, and most time even if they are going to go a little farther

then they should they will check in, if not for just to get a drink or use the rest room.

It would be 3 things they did not follow rules

1. Going so Far away
2. Not checking in
3. going that far when already an hour had passed and it was to be a short ride.

They are really good kids I can't see them doing all three.

I think they were good girls too. The first day they were already searching I thought for sure they would find them. Now this is all too real. I don't like this feeling I have, could they have been lured and picked up on the highway. There was a sex trafficking ring in Ohio the month the girls went missing. I hope LE or FBI would check on this. I have seen some things in Minneapolis with girls in a black Cadillac in the middle of the day. I almost turned back around and was going to talk to them but they turned the corner. Black male driver, very young white girl with long blond hair. If I could get some of those flyers for the girls. I could keep an eye out and people in nearby states could do the same. I see them being picked up. I love all the Parents, they have such hope. HOPE

 

[SapphireSteel]

Many Iowans, including me, believe that Evelyn's killer(s) are known but LE can't find enough evidence to bring charges.

Thanks largely to Lori Arnold, actor Tom Arnold's sister, Iowa has been riddled by meth. It's not just the Waterloo/Cedar Falls area, it's all of Iowa.

http://www.thefix.com/content/how-americas-meth-queen-melted-down?page=all

Read the first paragraph description of Arnold and it is really chilling in light of her absolute lack of remorse or regret.

It really does seem to be a disease with an evil all of its own.

Turns ordinary people into monsters, and makes the unthinkable almost commonplace.

 

[Marilynilpa]

Many Iowans, including me, believe that Evelyn's killer(s) are known but LE can't find enough evidence to bring charges.

Thanks largely to Lori Arnold, actor Tom Arnold's sister, Iowa has been riddled by meth. It's not just the Waterloo/Cedar Falls area, it's all of Iowa.

http://www.thefix.com/content/how-americas-meth-queen-melted-down?page=all

Read the first paragraph description of Arnold and it is really chilling in light of her absolute lack of remorse or regret.

I am ashamed to say I have never heard of her. I think the only remorse this woman will ever have is over her loss of income from meth. Horrifying, to say the least.

 

[nikb]

Wondering if the kids really did enjoy v8, or if they poured it, said" thanks G ma, yummy will drink that in a few minutes" then zipped out for soda or big slurpy?...

Take it for what it's worth, but the People article specifically said they poured themselves glasses of juice.

(there were also a number of seemingly trivial things that were inaccurate though so...)

 

[GrainneDhu]

I am ashamed to say I have never heard of her. I think the only remorse this woman will ever have is over her loss of income from meth. Horrifying, to say the least.

I've tried to answer this twice and haven't been able to come up with something that can be posted to a public forum.

I finally realised that what I wanted to say is that Lori Arnold is worse than the vast majority of murderers. Most murderers only kill one person. Arnold killed whole families and communities.

If there is any silver lining to this horrifying plague, it is that most Iowans now realise that substance abuse is something that can happen in any family and in any community. The substance abuse problems that MCM and DM have had can happen in any family.

 

[Marilynilpa]

I've tried to answer this twice and haven't been able to come up with something that can be posted to a public forum.

I finally realised that what I wanted to say is that Lori Arnold is worse than the vast majority of murderers. Most murderers only kill one person. Arnold killed whole families and communities.

If there is any silver lining to this horrifying plague, it is that most Iowans now realise that substance abuse is something that can happen in any family and in any community. The substance abuse problems that MCM and DM have had can happen in any family.

What she has created is beyond my comprehension, a world where family means nothing, work means nothing - only meth has meaning. And this woman is remorseless.

Until I began reading about Lyric and Elizabeth, all I knew about meth was from one documentary I saw about three years ago.

Substance abuse problems can happen in any family, you're right. When it impacts children, though, it's also a community problem, but how in the world can we stop it? Education, rehab, incarceration - does anything work?

 

[GrainneDhu]

What she has created is beyond my comprehension, a world where family means nothing, work means nothing - only meth has meaning. And this woman is remorseless.

Until I began reading about Lyric and Elizabeth, all I knew about meth was from one documentary I saw about three years ago.

Substance abuse problems can happen in any family, you're right. When it impacts children, though, it's also a community problem, but how in the world can we stop it? Education, rehab, incarceration - does anything work?

We have the past 40 years or so to show that incarceration doesn't work. We're filling up our prisons with drug users who are mostly (not all, of course) non-violent offenders and it seems like the more people we put in prison, the more people we need to put into prison.

Rehabilitation is one answer but the success rate is low (over five years, only about 20% stay sober; this is true of alcoholism, too).

I think research is the answer. We're a lot closer now to understanding what goes on with all those weird sounding chemicals in our brains and how to affect them.

There are new(er) forms of therapy, such as cognitive behavioural therapy (CBT) which is results driven. CBT therapists actually keep track of their results, which is a huge step forward from older forms of psychotherapy that simply assumed that once the patient stopped making appointments they were mentally healthy.

For myself, if I had a choice, I'd much rather put money into rehabilitation and research then into building more prisons. Do we really need to keep incarcerating substance abusers for another 40 years in order to figure out it isn't working?

 

[TxLady2]

Bless you that you remain so innocent.

Sadly I think the girls were murdered day one , and their bodies in a vehicle that has been hidden, perhaps in a lake or river.

Thanks, I think. Not sure what you mean by the innocent comment, I'm just being logical. But I can always use the blessings.

May I ask why you believe they are in a vehicle submerged somewhere? I mean, besides the obvious reason being to hide evidence. But if he only takes them somewhere else to do his deed, then he could clean up any hair or other trace evidence later and stay pretty much under the radar. Or he could have been smart enough to not leave any trace evidence in the van to start with, by covering the cargo area with a tarp, then wrapping them up in the tarp to dispose of them. Tarps cost a whole lot less to replace than a van.

I do agree that it's likely he killed the girls the same day, but there are any number of things he could have done with their bodies and the sad thing is, they might not be found for years.

 

[TxLady2]

Many Iowans, including me, believe that Evelyn's killer(s) are known but LE can't find enough evidence to bring charges.

Thanks largely to Lori Arnold, actor Tom Arnold's sister, Iowa has been riddled by meth. It's not just the Waterloo/Cedar Falls area, it's all of Iowa.

http://www.thefix.com/content/how-americas-meth-queen-melted-down?page=all

Read the first paragraph description of Arnold and it is really chilling in light of her absolute lack of remorse or regret.

Wow... she is a piece of work, isn't she? No remorse, nothing but regret that she's not making the big money now.
I don't much like her brother, either.

 

[Moonflowers111]

What is interesting to me is that he didn't repeat the crime, contrary to many common predictions about the perps in such crimes. He apparently went on to live an ordinary life.

It's only a crime if you get caught! :twocents:

We don't know all those things people get away with that aren't reported as "crime". And I, for one, am afraid to know!

 

[not_my_kids]

I've been following along on this one, but holding my tongue, because I have my own theories on what happened to the girls, but being victim friendly....well, I can't post them here, because most of the people I suspect are still under the "victim" umbrella.

That said, the one thing I don't believe is that the girls are in a vehicle that was ditched somewhere. Anyone that is going to kill two little girls is going to be desperate to distance themselves from that crime. They are not going to leave the bodies in a vehicle that can presumably be traced back to them. If it was a borrowed vehicle, it would have already presumably been reported stolen, therefore, it stands to reason that the vehicle is owned either by the perp or by close family/friend of the perp. I find it highly unlikely that a perp that managed to get the girls, get them out of the area, stage the bikes, not leave a witness, and manage to keep themselves and any real sign of the girls hidden for this long would take the chance of blowing the whole thing by leaving bodies in a vehicle that could be traced back to him.

Just my two cents.

 

[cindersoot]

I think the whole reason this seems like a mystery, and the girls vanished into thin air, because there is no witness, etc, is because they felt comfortable with the perp. No screaming, no kicking fighting, just a trust that they were with a nice person. They trusted this guy who ever he is. I think he is local and came across the girls many times on their bike rides.

 

[AmandaReckonwith]

Case Archive for the girls, updated.

http://s296.photobucket.com/albums/mm166/crankycrankerson/Elizabeth%20Collins%20-%20Lyric%20Cook-Morrissey%20%20-IA-/

 

[cindersoot]

I still wonder why LE targeted the white an at Casey's . Were they sure a white van was involved?

 

[Jax49]

I still wonder why LE targeted the white an at Casey's . Were they sure a white van was involved?

BBM

No. According to Abben. IIRC

 

[Sunlight]

Regarding the white van. It was made pretty clear that the reason they wanted to speak with the van person was because they thought he may have "information", not because he was driving a white van. There is a possibility, that we are unaware of, that they got whatever information they were looking for. He is not a suspect. MOO

 

[cindersoot]

Regarding the white van. It was made pretty clear that the reason they wanted to speak with the van person was because they thought he may have "information", not because he was driving a white van. There is a possibility, that we are unaware of, that they got whatever information they were looking for. He is not a suspect. MOO

I thought they targeted him because of his vehicle, thanks for clearing that up.

 

[ktgirl]

We have the past 40 years or so to show that incarceration doesn't work. We're filling up our prisons with drug users who are mostly (not all, of course) non-violent offenders and it seems like the more people we put in prison, the more people we need to put into prison.

Rehabilitation is one answer but the success rate is low (over five years, only about 20% stay sober; this is true of alcoholism, too).

I think research is the answer. We're a lot closer now to understanding what goes on with all those weird sounding chemicals in our brains and how to affect them.

There are new(er) forms of therapy, such as cognitive behavioural therapy (CBT) which is results driven. CBT therapists actually keep track of their results, which is a huge step forward from older forms of psychotherapy that simply assumed that once the patient stopped making appointments they were mentally healthy.

For myself, if I had a choice, I'd much rather put money into rehabilitation and research then into building more prisons. Do we really need to keep incarcerating substance abusers for another 40 years in order to figure out it isn't working?

Bolded by me.
I could not agree more. Unfortunately, in many places, prison/the prison-industrial complex is big businness, so this won't be changing any time soon. Unless voters wake up and make this an issue.

 

[ktgirl]

I think the whole reason this seems like a mystery, and the girls vanished into thin air, because there is no witness, etc, is because they felt comfortable with the perp. No screaming, no kicking fighting, just a trust that they were with a nice person. They trusted this guy who ever he is. I think he is local and came across the girls many times on their bike rides.

Or the perp brandished a gun or knife. That would get two little girls into a vehicle with little screaming or fighting.