IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #19

[CHERIE.T]

This seems like an organized crime. The positioning of the bikes suggests one of three possibilities:

1. the children were lured to that remote location, where they parked their bikes, left the purse on the ground, and were abducted,
2. the children rode to that location, even though it was not allowed and grandma was watching, and were forced off their bikes, or
3. the bikes and purse were staged at that location.

Option 1 and 3 seem organized. Option 2 seems unlikely. IMO, there's a low probability that a weirdo jumped out of the bushes to ambush two young girls on a path that is rarely used. It seems unlikely that it was a random, spontaneous attack, especially since it requires that the girls were taken some distance to a vehicle that was not hidden.

Besides, leaving the purse right next to the water ... that suggested that they went into the water. They didn't go into the water, but the positioning of the bikes and purse ... that seems organized.

Otto, you should send your ideas to LE.
Seriously, your comments combined with your article could give LE something to ponder. ..not saying LE isn't doing their job. But new or different ideas may spark something.
Moo

 

[otto]

I am local, I have children. It IS scary, but we're careful not to allow our children to live in fear.

Today they played outside, in the yard, alone, while my wife and I were inside. Yes, we could hear their voices. Yes, we are very friendly and familiar with our neighbors, who were also outside.

Whereas before we'd never have given the situation a second thought, today we were constantly checking on them w/o letting them know we were (looking out windows, listening closely, etc). There are 6 children under 10 living on this block of my street, and 3 others who visit their relatives regularly. The parents ALL know each other, and ALL have our eyes peeled when we are outside.

Our kids are very aware that the girls are still missing, but I can't honestly say they (or we) are constantly fearful. I couldn't say that 7 weeks ago.

Good to see you posting again. A number of people were concerned about you. I have questions about the visibility of the drainage pipe area from the parking lot dock and the ivy along Maiden Lane.

When standing at the parking lot dock, is it possible to recognize faces, or only color of shirts, across the lake at the drainage pipe?

Is there poison ivy in the treed area between Maiden Lane and the double fence / lake?

 

[CHERIE.T]

This story has nothing to do with the girls or the lake where they vanished. Its about what was thought to be an attempt to lure a young girl, but is now reported as a misunderstanding.

You can delete this, I deleted my post.

 

[Marilynilpa]

I am local, I have children. It IS scary, but we're careful not to allow our children to live in fear.

Today they played outside, in the yard, alone, while my wife and I were inside. Yes, we could hear their voices. Yes, we are very friendly and familiar with our neighbors, who were also outside.

Whereas before we'd never have given the situation a second thought, today we were constantly checking on them w/o letting them know we were (looking out windows, listening closely, etc). There are 6 children under 10 living on this block of my street, and 3 others who visit their relatives regularly. The parents ALL know each other, and ALL have our eyes peeled when we are outside.

Our kids are very aware that the girls are still missing, but I can't honestly say they (or we) are constantly fearful. I couldn't say that 7 weeks ago.

Ollipop, I thought we'd lost you!

Do your kids mention what other kids are saying/thinking about Lyric and Elizabeth?

 

[Ollipop]

Good to see you posting again. A number of people were concerned about you. I have questions about the visibility of the drainage pipe area from the parking lot dock and the ivy along Maiden Lane.

When standing at the parking lot dock, is it possible to recognize faces, or only color of shirts, across the lake at the drainage pipe?

Is there poison ivy in the treed area between Maiden Lane and the double fence / lake?

Thank you, and there is no cause for concern. I've been here all along, just not online nearly as much.

From the dock, I would say faces are probably not recognizable to most. I'm told I have excellent eyesight. I would recognize someone I knew, but I would probably not be able to accurately describe a stranger from that distance, except in a general sense. JMO.

Ollipop, I thought we'd lost you!

Do your kids mention what other kids are saying/thinking about Lyric and Elizabeth?

No, I cannot remember them mentioning it. I know there is heightened security and awareness at school, but I haven't heard my children discussing this with anyone other than immediate family. I do remember myself, another parent, and several kids having a brief discussion at the bus stop on the first day of school, but that's about it.

With my kids, and the kids I see, hear, and talk to, there seems to be more a feeling of sadness than fear, tbh.

 

[GrainneDhu]

2. Disorganized Crime: the victim isn’t chosen logically. She’s seemingly picked at random and “blitz-attacked,” not stalked and coerced. The killer might grab a steak knife from the kitchen and leave the knife behind. The crime is so sloppily executed that the victim often has a chance to fight back. The crime might take place in a high-risk environment. “Moreover, the disorganized killer has no idea of, or interest in, the personalities of his victims,” Ressler writes in “Whoever Fights Monsters.” “He does not want to know who they are, and many times takes steps to obliterate their personalities by quickly knocking them unconscious or covering their faces or otherwise disfiguring them.”

Read more http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2007/11/12/071112fa_fact_gladwell#ixzz262jBqgMr

In the years since those two basic categories were created, it has come to be understood that it isn't binary; those two categories are at either end of a continuum.

For instance, good ol' Ted Bundy showed signs of being both organised and disorganised. He selected his abduction sites carefully but his victims were random (wrong place at the wrong time). His abduction sites were often extremely high risk. He used a blitz style attack but often used a ruse to lure his victim to the spot where he attacked them.

Far from being a social outcast, Bundy was sophisticated at hiding his true nature from those around him.

In my humble opinion, whoever abducted Elizabeth and Lyric was probably one of those in-between type attackers, a mixture of organised and disorganised.

 

[GrainneDhu]

Reading that gave me chills because Imoo at least one of the missing girls was (using words from the article)watched, selected and conned.
I fear there is a real likelihood the girls will never be found.

Anyone care to tell me if a new search with scent dogs would be helpful.:moo:

Searching various areas with human remains detection dogs may be helpful.

Let the farmers get the harvest in. Corn is only about 7% harvested and soybeans haven't been started yet. Once the harvest is in, I think it would be useful to go back over the fields around Waterloo and Cedar Falls to check fencelines, tree lines, etc.

Off topic: it is so sad. I just read a note from one farmer who combined just over 250 acres of corn with an average yield of less than 50 bushels an acre. That's about 25% of a normal years' harvest.

Iowa is going to be hurting this fall. When the farmers hurt, the ripples spread out through the whole Iowa economy.

 

[GrainneDhu]

I am local, I have children. It IS scary, but we're careful not to allow our children to live in fear.

Today they played outside, in the yard, alone, while my wife and I were inside. Yes, we could hear their voices. Yes, we are very friendly and familiar with our neighbors, who were also outside.

Whereas before we'd never have given the situation a second thought, today we were constantly checking on them w/o letting them know we were (looking out windows, listening closely, etc). There are 6 children under 10 living on this block of my street, and 3 others who visit their relatives regularly. The parents ALL know each other, and ALL have our eyes peeled when we are outside.

Our kids are very aware that the girls are still missing, but I can't honestly say they (or we) are constantly fearful. I couldn't say that 7 weeks ago.

Good for you, Ollipop!

It's no use raising children who end up caged by their own fears. You and Mrs Ollipop are very brave.

 

[otto]

Thank you, and there is no cause for concern. I've been here all along, just not online nearly as much.

From the dock, I would say faces are probably not recognizable to most. I'm told I have excellent eyesight. I would recognize someone I knew, but I would probably not be able to accurately describe a stranger from that distance, except in a general sense. JMO.



No, I cannot remember them mentioning it. I know there is heightened security and awareness at school, but I haven't heard my children discussing this with anyone other than immediate family. I do remember myself, another parent, and several kids having a brief discussion at the bus stop on the first day of school, but that's about it.

With my kids, and the kids I see, hear, and talk to, there seems to be more a feeling of sadness than fear, tbh.

More sadness than fear? ... as time goes by, people are less and less afraid, but the fact remains that someone with a connection to Evansdale abducted two young girls in a seemingly organized manner. I get the impression that this person could go for quite some time without abducting someone, but when it happens, there is only deceptive evidence. I suspect that there is a connection between this abduction, in which two girls flawlissly vanish, and at least one previous abduction in the broader area. Don't predators start further away from home and get closer each time they get away with it ... until they are burying bodies in the back yard?

 

[Marilynilpa]

In the years since those two basic categories were created, it has come to be understood that it isn't binary; those two categories are at either end of a continuum.

For instance, good ol' Ted Bundy showed signs of being both organised and disorganised. He selected his abduction sites carefully but his victims were random (wrong place at the wrong time). His abduction sites were often extremely high risk. He used a blitz style attack but often used a ruse to lure his victim to the spot where he attacked them.

Far from being a social outcast, Bundy was sophisticated at hiding his true nature from those around him.

In my humble opinion, whoever abducted Elizabeth and Lyric was probably one of those in-between type attackers, a mixture of organised and disorganised.

Were Bundy's victims completely random, though? He had a certain type of woman he was drawn to, so IMO he wasn't totally random in his selection of victims.

I agree that whoever abducted Elizabeth and Lyric was likely a mixture of organized and disorganized attacker, IMO more organized than disorganized if that makes sense.

 

[Marilynilpa]

Searching various areas with human remains detection dogs may be helpful.

Let the farmers get the harvest in. Corn is only about 7% harvested and soybeans haven't been started yet. Once the harvest is in, I think it would be useful to go back over the fields around Waterloo and Cedar Falls to check fencelines, tree lines, etc.

Off topic: it is so sad. I just read a note from one farmer who combined just over 250 acres of corn with an average yield of less than 50 bushels an acre. That's about 25% of a normal years' harvest.

Iowa is going to be hurting this fall. When the farmers hurt, the ripples spread out through the whole Iowa economy.

BBM

And when Iowa hurts, it spreads out to all of us in the U.S. in higher prices. No one wins when farmers struggle to bring in a decent harvest, IMO.

 

[otto]

Were Bundy's victims completely random, though? He had a certain type of woman he was drawn to, so IMO he wasn't totally random in his selection of victims.

I agree that whoever abducted Elizabeth and Lyric was likely a mixture of organized and disorganized attacker, IMO more organized than disorganized if that makes sense.

Bundy had a type of woman that he sought, but there is apparently no connection between Bundy, the serial killer that victiminzed white women with long hair parted in the middle, and other serial killers. Serial killers have differing fantasies, sometimes similar fetishes, but otherwise no connection. Men that use a hammer during murder may or may not be serial murderers. There is no common thread between serial murderers They're whack jobs that get off on hurting females and then they murder to hide their crime.

 

[otto]

BBM

And when Iowa hurts, it spreads out to all of us in the U.S. in higher prices. No one wins when farmers struggle to bring in a decent harvest, IMO.

Perhaps more land should be allocated as farm land to prevent the future possibility that crop failure in one region means higher prices for the nation. Surely the country is large enough to support corn and soy bean crops in other regions ... once the Iowa crops are picked bare, hopefully farmers will check their fields and fences for anything irregular ... something along the lines of beautiful bones.

 

[otto]

Vangelis - A Year of Living Dangerously - YouTube

 

[otto]

From the dock, I would say faces are probably not recognizable to most. I'm told I have excellent eyesight. I would recognize someone I knew, but I would probably not be able to accurately describe a stranger from that distance, except in a general sense. JMO.

... more a feeling of sadness than fear.

<edited, condensed>

Thanks. So the fisher boy that was on the dock probably couldn't offer any good information about whether the children were on the path that afternoon. As it stands, no one saw the children on, or near, the Evansdale Nsture Trail that afternon. The bikes were apparently seen at some point in the afternoon, 12:20 or 2:00, lying on the path or leaning on the fence, and the purse was discovered 10 feet to the East at about 3:40.

 

[cindersoot]

Good Morning, I'm back.

 

[CN2Souls]

Good Morning Cindersoot, any new thoughts on the case?

 

[cindersoot]

Good Morning Cindersoot, any new thoughts on the case?

No, no new thoughts. I just hope the girls are found soon.

 

[ShyViolet]

<edited, condensed>

Thanks. So the fisher boy that was on the dock probably couldn't offer any good information about whether the children were on the path that afternoon. As it stands, no one saw the children on, or near, the Evansdale Nsture Trail that afternon. The bikes were apparently seen at some point in the afternoon, 12:20 or 2:00, lying on the path or leaning on the fence, and the purse was discovered 10 feet to the East at about 3:40.

BBM. Snipped from CNN transcripts, dated July 17th.

BROUSSEAU: The girls` bikes did trail around and ended up on the south side of the lake by the interstate, which would be 380 -- I-380. The bikes were just dropped down right on the bike trail.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1207/17/ijvm.01.html

Not sure if this means anything or not, but I came across it recently while looking for something else.

 

[threecrazykids]

:waitasec:Just wanted to ask a quick question as far as the coffee cup "evidence" goes.

Even if they WERE to get DNA or some sort of fingerprint evidence from that cup...and even if it DID belong to a potential abductor, the only way they are going to catch this person is IF they have been arrested before and had some sort of fingerprint or DNA to match against some sort of database, correct?

If this is a first time perp chances are even full blown DNA recovery isn't going to match up to anything that is going to point to the person responsible...or am I missing something?

We are basically praying that the coffee cup DNA would match someone who has already been arrested, fingerprinted, and DNA swabbed (if indeed it was relevent to the case).

:waitasec: