IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #20

[cindersoot]

I also think it was someone local. It freaks me out to think the girls could be buried somewhere local. You know there is so many water ways around Evansdale, that makes me wonder if they were dumped in water, but with the drought Im sure they would of been found. Thats why I really just don't understand why they don't conduct more searches.

 

[FrayedKnot]

I just wonder why they think it's someone local. Did the evidence point that way, was there a tip called in?

Just a guess, but maybe they have already spoken to the perp, know it's him and have been building enough to arrest him and make it stick.

I have heard that sometimes the perp will insert himself into the investigation....maybe he called in a tip and something he said raised the hinky meter?

 

[superbee]

Well, considering that I am practically the anti-psychic, in all probability nothing will happen.

What I feel may happen, I'm not sure. I just have a feeling that things are about to change.

I am far away from Iowa, but where I live there have been many unsolved murders over the past 40 years, mostly along lonely highways and roads. Yesterday there was a police news conference that, because of DNA testing, 2of the murders have been pinned on a convict in an Oregon prison, who has since died of cancer. And the police here say they have a couple of more suspects in mind. This gives me renewed hope for Luric and Elizabeth. That there is alot going on behind the scenes with LE they are not sharing for now.

The police here never said much over the years, assuring us that they were working on the murders and disappearances and were hopeful. And now they are putting the alleged killer's face and name on media and asking us to go back in our memories and can anyone remember him, as he was a drifter.

This gives me hope for our girls. I pray their investigation is going well. I pray for them every day.

 

[Jules71]

Hm random late night thought. Apologies if we already went over this, I feel like it was discussed briefly before but not much.

IIRC Lizzie went to the lake at least one other time with the neighbor girls, and I got the impression that the neighbor girls went to the lake fairly often. I'm sifting through the old info to try and find it but this point sticks in my head. Is it possible the other girls rode bikes on a fairly predictable route and they were the target? Then "oops!" when they got Lizzie and Lyric instead? Could be and likely is totally off base... IMO and all. Another thought for consideration.

I'm not trying to sleuth or blame anyone in any of the families. I was just thinking it makes more sense for E'dale kids to be the target(s).

I think this is a good point and something worth looking at. Do we know which neighbor girls and their ages?

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2

 

[nikb]

Lyric was 10 year old. I can't imagine that an adult male would be confused about the age of young girls when he was abducting 8 year old Elizabeth near her home.

I think from a distance possibly, since Lyric was on an adult sized mountain bike, but IMO it would've been pretty obvious once the person got close enough to the girls (or they got close enough to him/her/them).

 

[roseofsharon]

Could it be that someone living very close to Maiden Lane owns/manages/works at a business on Lafayette and left work to go home for lunch or was taking that Friday afternoon off, saw the girls riding their bikes towards Meyers Lake, followed them long enough to watch them enter the trail and then went home, parked their vehicle, and then cut through the lane, waited for the girls near the jetty and then lured the girls to their home. Once the perp had the girls securely locked in their home, they took the purse back to the bike location and threw it.

Possibly, this could be someone just living very close to Maiden Lane with no connection to Lafayette, but because of the timeframe, it seems more likely it would be a working person leaving for lunch or for the day.

I still feel the girls are alive and being held hostage in a home close to Maiden Lane.

Just a theory and IMO.

 

[nikb]

I think this is a good point and something worth looking at. Do we know which neighbor girls and their ages?

I've been looking everywhere for more info about this but haven't found a link to the interview or transcript yet. The little bit I know was posted here on WS while the TV show was on:

Starting here: Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, and Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #9

and several posts from 7/28 forward (IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, and Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #9 - Page 2 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community)

The comment seems to have been made during Judge Pirro's show on Fox network. Quotes below are from WS, not a transcript as I haven't been able to find one yet. I can't figure out how to put them as separate "quoted" posts but they are all on this thread, and many thanks to the original posters for sharing the info from the show!
-----------
"Tammy: Lizzie knew about the lake; had went [gone] down to that lake before"
-----------
"" Elizabeth did know about that lake. There are 3 girls who live across the street and she has riddento the lake with them before..." [ Aunt Tammy] "
-----------
"I didn't hear Aunt T say Lizzie rode there, though.

I heard her say Lizzy knew the lake and that she had been there before."
-----------
"Hard to say what she meant..she definitely said she went there with the girls across the street and knew the lake...maybe there was an adult with them at the time."
-----------
"I thought she said she had gone with the three neighbor girls before."
-----------
"Maybe the family didn't know Elizabeth had been to the lake until recently. The girls (3?) she went with may have shared the info. ????????????? "
"Lizzie (Elizabeth) had been to lake with other girls from the neighborhood. Per Aunt Tammy on FOX"
-----------
"TB: " I want to clarify, about the lake. The girls actually DID know about the lake because there are three girls who live across from Elizabeth, and they ride there all of the time..."
-----------
"So I guess we are all still confused about what 'exactly' Aunt T. was saying. It seemed like she was implying that the girls rode to the lake with the neighbor girls. But thinking back, she might have held back a bit from saying that explicitly. I have to watch the replay to know for sure.

She said { paraphrasing] to clarify, the girls did KNOW about the lake because the three girls across the street rode there all of the time... "
-----------

So... three neighbor girls, sounds like they live nearby ("across the street"), and at least Elizabeth had been to the lake with them before - unclear if it was via bike or not, but it sounds like it.

 

[katydid23]

I've been looking everywhere for more info about this but haven't found a link to the interview or transcript yet. The little bit I know was posted here on WS while the TV show was on:

Starting here: Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, and Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #9

and several posts from 7/28 forward (IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, and Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #9 - Page 2 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community)

The comment seems to have been made during Judge Pirro's show on Fox network. Quotes below are from WS, not a transcript as I haven't been able to find one yet. I can't figure out how to put them as separate "quoted" posts but they are all on this thread, and many thanks to the original posters for sharing the info from the show!
-----------
"Tammy: Lizzie knew about the lake; had went [gone] down to that lake before"
-----------
"" Elizabeth did know about that lake. There are 3 girls who live across the street and she has riddento the lake with them before..." [ Aunt Tammy] "
-----------
"I didn't hear Aunt T say Lizzie rode there, though.

I heard her say Lizzy knew the lake and that she had been there before."
-----------
"Hard to say what she meant..she definitely said she went there with the girls across the street and knew the lake...maybe there was an adult with them at the time."
-----------
"I thought she said she had gone with the three neighbor girls before."
-----------
"Maybe the family didn't know Elizabeth had been to the lake until recently. The girls (3?) she went with may have shared the info. ????????????? "
"Lizzie (Elizabeth) had been to lake with other girls from the neighborhood. Per Aunt Tammy on FOX"
-----------
"TB: " I want to clarify, about the lake. The girls actually DID know about the lake because there are three girls who live across from Elizabeth, and they ride there all of the time..."
-----------
"So I guess we are all still confused about what 'exactly' Aunt T. was saying. It seemed like she was implying that the girls rode to the lake with the neighbor girls. But thinking back, she might have held back a bit from saying that explicitly. I have to watch the replay to know for sure.

She said { paraphrasing] to clarify, the girls did KNOW about the lake because the three girls across the street rode there all of the time... "
-----------

So... three neighbor girls, sounds like they live nearby ("across the street"), and at least Elizabeth had been to the lake with them before - unclear if it was via bike or not, but it sounds like it.

I had this same thought and I think I even posted a similar idea.

The three sisters supposedly rode there 'all of the time.'

I had wondered if maybe the man watering his lawn, who said he talked to Elizabeth ' all of the time' might have had her confused with the three sisters. Especially since she rode with them at least one time.

Anyway, I do believe it is quite possible that someone was lying in wait for the three sisters and ended up with the two cousins instead.

I hope LE has been questioning the sisters about any men they may have met in the lake area or on their rides.

 

[superbee]

Could it be that someone living very close to Maiden Lane owns/manages/works at a business on Lafayette and left work to go home for lunch or was taking that Friday afternoon off, saw the girls riding their bikes towards Meyers Lake, followed them long enough to watch them enter the trail and then went home, parked their vehicle, and then cut through the lane, waited for the girls near the jetty and then lured the girls to their home. Once the perp had the girls securely locked in their home, they took the purse back to the bike location and threw it.

Possibly, this could be someone just living very close to Maiden Lane with no connection to Lafayette, but because of the timeframe, it seems more likely it would be a working person leaving for lunch or for the day.

I still feel the girls are alive and being held hostage in a home close to Maiden Lane.

Just a theory and IMO.

I agree, particularly with your last sentence. Especially since we were informed by Ollipop weeks ago that his family home, close to the lake, was never searched. Unless the homes were searched, and the occupants asked not reveal the fact.

One of the excellent maps on an earlier page showed Maiden Lane over the years. I believe shaded Maiden Lane somehow played a part, some connection, in the girls' disappearance. I also believe a person with alot of local knowledge is involved.

 

[nikb]

I had this same thought and I think I even posted a similar idea.

The three sisters supposedly rode there 'all of the time.'

I had wondered if maybe the man watering his lawn, who said he talked to Elizabeth ' all of the time' might have had her confused with the three sisters. Especially since she rode with them at least one time.

Anyway, I do believe it is quite possible that someone was lying in wait for the three sisters and ended up with the two cousins instead.

I hope LE has been questioning the sisters about any men they may have met in the lake area or on their rides.

Thanks Katydid! Sorry to borrow your idea without proper credit :blushing: I thought it had been on here at least once before but I couldn't remember who posted the thought originally. I wish we knew more about those 3 girls but I doubt we can find out much info without "sleuthing" them and invading their privacy.

I would think that all 3 neighbor girls weren't together every second, or riding bikes to the same place at the same time. Maybe Lizzie or Lyric is friends with one of the sisters? 2 or 3 of the girls had biked to the lake before? Lyric's routine seemed relatively new IMO since her Mom had started her new job. Maybe Lyric found a 'new' friend in E'dale, and the new friend wanted to show the girls something cool at the lake but "hurry up before your gramma realizes you're gone!" Maybe in the surveillance tape Lizzie was leading the way to the neighbor girls' house?

I'm still not convinced they were riding especially fast on the surveillance tape, but I wish we knew for sure.

Just so my post isn't taken the wrong way IMO all of this could be completely innocent, I'm just trying to brainstorm ideas about how the girls and/or their bikes got to the lake.

 

[Dr. Know?]

I agree, particularly with your last sentence. Especially since we were informed by Ollipop weeks ago that his family home, close to the lake, was never searched. Unless the homes were searched, and the occupants asked not reveal the fact.

One of the excellent maps on an earlier page showed Maiden Lane over the years. I believe shaded Maiden Lane somehow played a part, some connection, in the girls' disappearance. I also believe a person with alot of local knowledge is involved.

Yes, I'm finding that with the Isabel Celis case in Tucson, the last we heard from the PD they still had 40 houses that hadn't been searched or with residents (120 people they said) that still needed to be questioned around May 23, 2012 in a 3 square mile area. No updates so far about the homes or people and it's going on Oct...

Evansdale searches shouldn't be that hard considering the size difference & real estate market maybe. There's always that needle in the haystack maybe? jmo

 

[CHERIE.T]

nikb and katy,
what if you're right?
What if the 3 sisters WERE seen by the gentleman watering his lawn and he THOUGHT
he saw either Lizzy or Lyric......when he actually saw the sisters.
How similar in appearance were the 3 sisters bikes in appearence to Lyric and Lizzys bikes?
I think you've made a good what if!
Guess we have no way of knowing if the 3 sisters were at the park July 13?

 

[CHERIE.T]

I agree, particularly with your last sentence. Especially since we were informed by Ollipop weeks ago that his family home, close to the lake, was never searched. Unless the homes were searched, and the occupants asked not reveal the fact.

One of the excellent maps on an earlier page showed Maiden Lane over the years. I believe shaded Maiden Lane somehow played a part, some connection, in the girls' disappearance. I also believe a person with alot of local knowledge is involved.

superbee,
I have a feeling you are right about Maiden Lane and a person with knowledge being involved. One thing makes me think the perp is local....2 little girls were taken yet no one that we know of herd screams.
I think the girls knew the perp in some way.....some how. Imoo

 

[GrainneDhu]

nikb and katy,
what if you're right?
What if the 3 sisters WERE seen by the gentleman watering his lawn and he THOUGHT
he saw either Lizzy or Lyric......when he actually saw the sisters.
How similar in appearance were the 3 sisters bikes in appearence to Lyric and Lizzys bikes?
I think you've made a good what if!
Guess we have no way of knowing if the 3 sisters were at the park July 13?

Good idea!

Also, I wonder if any of the three sisters have hair roughly the same colour as Elizabeth's or Lyric's hair. Maybe it is just me but it seems to me that people tend to remember hair colour first, then eye colour, then shape of face.

Shape of face is a bit deceptive between about ages 7 and 10, at least for me. Children that age seem mostly to have round faces (Elizabeth and Lyric) or oval faces with short noses and a sort of overall softness that many people lose when they go into adolescence.

I don't know if I'm describing what I mean very well. I think I'm trying to say that the younger the child, the more 'generic' they look to adults who only know them casually. Healthy babies look round and squishy in a cute way. Over the next 20 years or so, they slowly develop more distinctly different looks until they are mature.

 

[CHERIE.T]

Yes, GrainneDhu! You make perfect sense....Children at certain ages certainly IMO look alike. Could the perp have approached wrong intended victims?

 

[artzypantz]

If the girls' bodies were put into a railroad car that wasn't in regular use at the time, I think it will be discovered soon. The railroads run at high capacity during the harvest season, so RR cars that have been put on the sidetrack for the summer are usually put back in service.

Also, I think railroad security checks all RR cars on a regular basis to keep people from riding the trains or setting up housekeeping in a sidetracked car.

About one third of the corn crop and one third of the soybean crop have been harvested so far (soybeans more concentrated in the upper third of Iowa). I don't know about the Cedar Valley but in my area, crop yields are way, way down.

This could be correct, im not sure, but i do know that the Rail Road that owns the Track does NOT own the rail cars.
ArtzyPantz

 

[RNER]

Hm random late night thought. Apologies if we already went over this, I feel like it was discussed briefly before but not much.

IIRC Lizzie went to the lake at least one other time with the neighbor girls, and I got the impression that the neighbor girls went to the lake fairly often. I'm sifting through the old info to try and find it but this point sticks in my head. Is it possible the other girls rode bikes on a fairly predictable route and they were the target? Then "oops!" when they got Lizzie and Lyric instead? Could be and likely is totally off base... IMO and all. Another thought for consideration.

I'm not trying to sleuth or blame anyone in any of the families. I was just thinking it makes more sense for E'dale kids to be the target(s).

Great theory and certainly a possibility!:Bennymonkey:

 

[otto]

I agree, particularly with your last sentence. Especially since we were informed by Ollipop weeks ago that his family home, close to the lake, was never searched. Unless the homes were searched, and the occupants asked not reveal the fact.

One of the excellent maps on an earlier page showed Maiden Lane over the years. I believe shaded Maiden Lane somehow played a part, some connection, in the girls' disappearance. I also believe a person with alot of local knowledge is involved.

Investigators checked properties on the East side of the lake ... we know that because this is what the lawn watering man said. The poster you are referring to does not live in that area.

 

[balaney]

<modsnip>
I feel that someone said they would meet them there. Either someone they spoke with prior to leaving the house that morning or someone they met along the way. If it was someone they met along the way it was probably someone they already knew. Has the Boys and Girls Club been checked out? Who was hanging around there that day? (usually there is a sign in sheet).

What was in her purse? Was she going there to buy something or to sell something? They abruptly left the lake as her purse was still there. If she willingly got in to an automobile she would have carried her purse with her.

Since she left the house with her purse - she had the intentions of using it someplace - either to buy something at a store along the way or to carry something important. Seems that there is intention in the bike ride at some point. Especially when asking for directions. She is on a mission to get to a meeting point and carrying something with her. Buying or selling. When they get to the lake - possibly the "buying and selling" is a ruse and a way to get her to the lake alone - possibly the person(s) is not expecting her to bring a cousin and has to take them both.

Lyric's history needs to be checked throughly. Any computer time, any cell phone time, any time she was in a chat room or a site that she could have "met" someone. If the asking for directions is true, that child was going to meet up with somebody. They need to check other computer's (aunt's and such) to make sure she did not go to meet someone that thought they were meeting an older person and got angry.

If someone did lure her to the lake with the intentions of taking her they would have to of had a vehicle to put the girls in to - where was it parked? It has to be in a place no one would see them shoved in to an auto - leaning toward the service road. Have they checked all people with authority to use the service road?


Leaning towards it was someone they met online or were not very familiar with. Also feel the other cousin (the one Lyric was with the week before) may shed more light on this situation. Lyric may have been going to meet a "friend" someone she met on line.

 

[GrainneDhu]

Yes, GrainneDhu! You make perfect sense....Children at certain ages certainly IMO look alike. Could the perp have approached wrong intended victims?

I'm relieved not to be the only person who thinks that many children look alike!

Since you originally brought up the idea, I have been wondering if maybe the perp was aiming at another girl or three but got Elizabeth and Lyric almost by mistake, as it were. It makes sense in a horrid sort of way.

I certainly hope that Elizabeth's friends were questioned by an expert in child interviews about who they may have seen or met. I think it would have to be done very, very carefully so as to prevent the children from thinking they did something wrong. Obviously they didn't but many children think that way.

I wish so much there could be a happy ending to this but I just don't see it.