IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #20

[CHERIE.T]

I do not think that is what has happened here myself, but I can see that is how a "perfect storm" type scenario may have occurred...and what other posters may see happening.

My personal theory runs more along the lines of a manufactured "perfect storm" - an abduction intended to look random, but in reality planned within an inch of its life, and not for sexual gratification.

Thanks SS!:seeya:

 

[Marilynilpa]

I do not think that is what has happened here myself, but I can see that is how a "perfect storm" type scenario may have occurred...and what other posters may see happening.

My personal theory runs more along the lines of a manufactured "perfect storm" - an abduction intended to look random, but in reality planned within an inch of its life, and not for sexual gratification.

I like the way you phrased it, a manufactured "perfect storm". That's exactly what it was, IMO.

 

[roseofsharon]

Maybe for Cindersoot: Cinder, do you know if Cornbelt Auctions has their auctions at their address on Lafayette, specifically when they auction vehicles and if they are held on Lafayette, are the vehicles that are up for auction parked in the parking lot at the back of the store?

For everyone ...
When I have attended an auction, the terms for payment are cash, cheque, or credit card the same day (cash and carry), but if someone has purchased a vehicle, would there be a period of time, i.e. 24 hrs. for ownership to be transferred and the vehicle picked up the next day?

My computer won't let me open a file to do with flash, but there was an auction held by Cornbelt on Thursday, July 12 (the site says, Tuesday, July 12) and I think a 1994 Chevy S10 pickup with tonneau top was purchased.

This pickup looks like it would easily accommodate two bikes and two people. It's just a long shot, wondering if perp could have been the person who bought this truck and was picking it up on Friday in the parking lot behind Cornbelt Auctions when the girls were in the area.

Just a comment about staging the bikes ... another theory could be that the perp drove the girls and the bikes to the lake and told them to park the bikes themselves, so no prints or dna from the perp.

Just all my own thoughts and IMOO.:twocents:

T I A

Looks something like this:

DISCLAIMER: This is not a vehicle that I have any personal knowledge of that was in any way connected to Cornbelt Auctions. It is just a photo of a similar vehicle that MAY have been auctioned at Cornbelt Auctions. This picture is for reference only.

 

[CHERIE.T]

I'm playing catch-up since I've been out all day, but I had to respond to Cherie T.'s post from last night. Someone had posted about a failed attempted abduction by an older man who opened up the door to his van and yelled for two young girls to get in. Thank goodness that didn't work.

Anyway, here is Cherie T.'s post:

wellll, lol,
I hope a lonely old guy would date females older than middle school age.

And really who tries to get dates by driving near women and yelling get in?
__________________

BBM

To which I have to respond, I don't know who tries to get dates that way, but I know someone who could - George Clooney.

Okay, back to playing catch-up.

Marilynilpa! OH my!!!! You are right. :floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh:
I just love you. lolol

 

[CHERIE.T]

Maybe for Cindersoot: Cinder, do you know if Cornbelt Auctions has their auctions at their address on Lafayette, specifically when they auction vehicles and if they are held on Lafayette, are the vehicles that are up for auction parked in the parking lot at the back of the store?

For everyone ...
When I have attended an auction, the terms for payment are cash, cheque, or credit card the same day (cash and carry), but if someone has purchased a vehicle, would there be a period of time, i.e. 24 hrs. for ownership to be transferred and the vehicle picked up the next day?

My computer won't let me open a file to do with flash, but there was an auction held by Cornbelt on Thursday, July 12 (the site says, Tuesday, July 12) and I think a 1994 Chevy S10 pickup with tonneau top was purchased.

This pickup looks like it would easily accommodate two bikes and two people. It's just a long shot, wondering if perp could have been the person who bought this truck and was picking it up on Friday in the parking lot behind Cornbelt Auctions when the girls were in the area.

Just a comment about staging the bikes ... another theory could be that the perp drove the girls and the bikes to the lake and told them to park the bikes themselves, so no prints or dna from the perp.

Just all my own thoughts and IMOO.:twocents:

T I A

Looks something like this:

DISCLAIMER: This is not a vehicle that I have any personal knowledge of that was in any way connected to Cornbelt Auctions. It is just a photo of a similar vehicle that MAY have been auctioned at Cornbelt Auctions. This picture is for reference only.

rose!>!>!>!>!> what a brilliant theory.
And that's the type truck Micky was taken in iirc. :what:
Reading your post made my heart beat go up.

If a car is bought at auction in my state, the temp title, temp tags etc are bought right then and there. gulpppppppppppp

 

[Jax49]

OT

Remember the 10 year old missing last week? Here's an update.

http://wcfcourier.com/news/local/mo...cle_66b090d4-3f19-5ec9-bd1d-8985caaeace9.html

snipped

WATERLOO, Iowa --- The mother of a 10-year-old girl who was briefly missing on Thursday has been arrested.
Police said Patience Payne, 26, was arrested Friday and charged with child endangerment, leaving the scene of an accident and failure to have insurance.
The 10-year-old girl reported missing was later found safe with a family member.

 

[CN2Souls]

Elizabeth and Lyric PSA - YouTube

 

[Jax49]

Elizabeth and Lyric PSA - YouTube

I was hoping for something longer. Oh well.

 

[daisynae]

Has anyone heard anything about Dan and his court date today?
Did he get a change of venue?

 

[Considering]

@Considering: "Looks like I'm back to my original theory on the abduction. I had started thinking they were kidnapped closer to Elizabeth's house, but now I'm back at the lake as the abduction site." Me too but I'm curious as to what changed your mind?

The Evansdale P.D. statement that said they had information that the girls were seen, "between 12:30 p.m. and 1:00 p.m. on Gilbert Dr. in the area of Meyers Lake in Evansdale."

 

[cindersoot]

Maybe for Cindersoot: Cinder, do you know if Cornbelt Auctions has their auctions at their address on Lafayette, specifically when they auction vehicles and if they are held on Lafayette, are the vehicles that are up for auction parked in the parking lot at the back of the store?

For everyone ...
When I have attended an auction, the terms for payment are cash, cheque, or credit card the same day (cash and carry), but if someone has purchased a vehicle, would there be a period of time, i.e. 24 hrs. for ownership to be transferred and the vehicle picked up the next day?

My computer won't let me open a file to do with flash, but there was an auction held by Cornbelt on Thursday, July 12 (the site says, Tuesday, July 12) and I think a 1994 Chevy S10 pickup with tonneau top was purchased.

This pickup looks like it would easily accommodate two bikes and two people. It's just a long shot, wondering if perp could have been the person who bought this truck and was picking it up on Friday in the parking lot behind Cornbelt Auctions when the girls were in the area.

Just a comment about staging the bikes ... another theory could be that the perp drove the girls and the bikes to the lake and told them to park the bikes themselves, so no prints or dna from the perp.

Just all my own thoughts and IMOO.:twocents:

T I A

Looks something like this:

DISCLAIMER: This is not a vehicle that I have any personal knowledge of that was in any way connected to Cornbelt Auctions. It is just a photo of a similar vehicle that MAY have been auctioned at Cornbelt Auctions. This picture is for reference only.

All I can say is I have never seen their vehicles parked behind their store.

 

[cindersoot]

What is everyones thought on why TG's timeframe was wrong?

 

[Bootsctr]

That part actually makes sense to me.

I think it's possible the girls thought that they hadn't been given a firm time to go home. As I recall, Lyric was supposed to text MCM to let her know if Lyric was at the Collins house or at home in Waterloo at Grandma Cook's house. So apparently at some point that morning, both were options.

In any case, when I was a kid, I'd go out to play without any real plans in mind and then someone would have an idea and we'd all do that. So riding around in circles for 40 minutes or so makes sense if the girls didn't have anything particular in mind.

At some point, one or both girls have the thought "let's go check out the skatepark before Grandma calls us in!" I think that is why they were riding so fast on the cctv footage; they wanted to get out of sight of the Collins house before Grandma called them in again.

I think they were normal kids, pushing their boundaries a bit because that's what kids do.

Once they got down to the lake area, I think they buzzed around some and then decided to ride around the lake.

Thank you GrainneDhu! This is exactly how I remember I was as a child. Plans changed from minute to minute. I think the girls really did want to check out the skatepark first. Thank you Otto for all the great maps. It really puts a lot of things in perspective. I have a question though.... as a child I always rode against the traffic (so wrong). Were Lyric and Elizabeth riding bikes with the traffic on that Friday they disappeared or were they riding against traffic? After viewing the video of the girls on their bikes, it appears to me that they are riding with traffic. If they continued to ride on the correct side of traffic to the lake it seems it would be very easy for the abductor to pull up ahead of the girls then stop and a passenger open up their door which would cause the girls to slow down or come to a complete halt thereby allowing the abductor to grab them and throw them into the vehicle. Gilbert Drive is a very busy street from the skateboard video on YouTube so I am ruling it out as where the abduction took place.

I also wonder if the girls could see the skate park when they reached Lake Avenue on Gilbert Drive. If the girls could see no one at the skate park then perhaps they turned right on Lake Avenue then left onto Arbitus to the bike trail where they could still go to the skate park, but because they hadn't seen anyone there minutes earlier they decided to hang out where the bikes were found and check the skate park in a bit. They were then lured or taken by force (especially if 2 perps involved) only minutes after arriving at that destination. The white truck shown earlier would have been ideal.

 

[Bootsctr]

I`d like to post these two maps again. They give the last known time and location for the girls.

Thank you otto! From this picture, it looks as if the skate park would not have been visible as there are a bunch of trees and a slight curve that would obscure the girls' view.

 

[tlzzdavis]

rose!>!>!>!>!> what a brilliant theory.
And that's the type truck Micky was taken in iirc. :what:
Reading your post made my heart beat go up.

If a car is bought at auction in my state, the temp title, temp tags etc are bought right then and there. gulpppppppppppp

Not the same DWT as MS. That was a Chevy Silverado z71 extended cab. Much larger than an s-10.

But DWTs will forever be a nightmare for anyone on that thread. LOL

 

[Bootsctr]

Respectfullysbm

Didn`t Lyric`s paternal grandmother say something about Lyric being like a bull in a China shop ... would blindly do something without consideration of the consequences. They could have been lured (I`m now of the opinion that they were). Elizabeth was described as a friendly, talkative child with strangers (paraphrasing there). Perhaps it was a complete stranger, perhaps it was someone that they had encountered once before - perhaps in the parking lots near Elizabeth`s home. The grandmother last saw them riding towards the old post office.

Yes, I believe it could have been a complete stranger although I lean more toward someone they had encountered more than once and especially in the parking lots near Elizabeth's home. Some type of delivery person or persons. Perhaps someone who worked on copiers for local businesses in that area. Maybe a part-time worker or self-employed person who would have the time to plan this type of abduction with 2 girls. Someone who was in that area frequently or at least semi-frequently for business or on the pretense of business, had noticed the girls. Maybe the girls even sensed they were being followed once they got almost to the lake. Perhaps, they started zigging and zagging through streets to get away from whomever was following them. They thought they could hide once they reached the bike trail; unfortunately, the perp or perps knew the bike trail and Arbitus Avenue very well.

 

[Bootsctr]

Someone on the last thread asked about exit routes, in particular one that included McCoy.

Just thinking about routes that perps take when there`s someone in the car that shouldn`t be there ... the rapist and murderer of Joanna Yeates in Bristol involved a bizarre escape route ... one where there was less traffic.

I like the red route better because as you say, less traffic. Just a question for anyone who cares to answer: Do we feel this was the perp's first abduction?

 

[ktgirl]

Has that island in Meyers Lake been throughly searched?

I have a funny feeling about it when I look at the aerial map.

 

[Bootsctr]

The thing i cant get past is that they traveled so far right about the time they should be going back home iirc. Why go there when you know your not going to be able to stay and play...Why wait around E's house driving in circles for 40 or so mins then all of a sudden go to the park.. if your purpose was to go off exploring why did they wait to do it..i just dont understand that part.

I just think kids will try all sorts of things to be able to have their friend/cousin/best friend to get to stay longer and play..... or even maybe get to spend the night. I figure the girls thought maybe GMA would give up on them and go ahead and leave since Daddy showed up and the girls would get to spend more time together. It was summer and not a school night so maybe Lyric thought GMA and mom would not be too upset about pulling a little stunt like this. Lyric might have even said something to Elizabeth like, "Do you think so-and-so mght be at the skate park today?" and all of a sudden they thought they might check it out.

 

[Bootsctr]

If he got home before 12:23ish when they were on Brogan...otherwise, they were sighted on Gilbert starting at 12:30 according to LE. It is true, they might have seen him.

I am very unclear as to exactly when GMA left to go back to Waterloo to get TB

MOO

Also, didn't Drew come home around 12:30? I wonder if the girls saw him and figured it was ok to stay out because now Lyric could stay??? Idk

Add me to the vote that Elizabeth saw her dad and what dad said would overrule GMA. What father could refuse his little princess asking for one of her favorite people to stay over? Lyric might have been hesitant, but Elizabeth easily convinced her "it would be okay."