IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #20

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I agree, trafficking is unlikely.

I am confused by the trafficking leap being made by media but equally confused by the recent involvement of Elizabeth's parents in causes and events relating to raising awareness about trafficking.

This indicates to me that someone or something may have led them to believe that trafficking may be related to the girls' case.
 
tlcox said:
I agree, trafficking is unlikely.

I am confused by the trafficking leap being made by media but equally confused by the recent involvement of Elizabeth's parents in causes and events relating to raising awareness about trafficking.

This indicates to me that someone or something may have led them to believe that trafficking may be related to the girls' case.
Click to expand...

It is just as likely as any other theory, and it sure doesn't hurt to look into that possibility, because it is becoming a real problem in our country.

I don't understand why some think it couldn't be possible, because it's been discussed on here many times that the girls were lured to the lake that day, and that their kidnapping had to be planned, so it was not a random thing. The only other possibility that makes sense is that it was a lone predator who lured them down there for himself, in which case they're both probably dead. If they're being held somewhere for sexual purposes, they might still be alive.

It would be interesting to know what they found on the computer.
 
Hi folks,

Off subject- because of Sandy I've been without power for over a week.

Now, I come back and can't find the McStay case which I've been
reading daily for ages.

It says it's been moved but not to where or why????
Anybody here know?

Thanks a lot!

Mystery Addict
 
tlcox said:
I agree, trafficking is unlikely.

I am confused by the trafficking leap being made by media but equally confused by the recent involvement of Elizabeth's parents in causes and events relating to raising awareness about trafficking.

This indicates to me that someone or something may have led them to believe that trafficking may be related to the girls' case.
Click to expand...

When people think of "trafficking" they think of white slavery, chains, duct tape, chloroform, waking up in strange rooms, but that is usually not the case.

Children can be trafficked by their own families. Young women can be trafficked by their own boyfriends.

Trafficking doesn't mean they necessarily even leave their home or bedroom. Most trafficked children remain in the home, going to school, etc.

The definition of trafficking is for one person to sell another person for profit.

I saw a horrible Dr Phil show where a young girl had been trafficked from the age of 4, repeatedly, by her own father. He sold her to get cheaper drugs.

A random abduction of children for the purposes of trafficking by a stranger is very, very rare. There are plenty of kids whose own carers will do it, especially now with the spread of meth.

:furious:
 
MysteryAddict said:
Hi folks,

Off subject- because of Sandy I've been without power for over a week.

Now, I come back and can't find the McStay case which I've been
reading daily for ages.

It says it's been moved but not to where or why????
Anybody here know?

Thanks a lot!

Mystery Addict
Click to expand...

It has happened b4 and the site usually comes back up. Usually someone has said something mean or talking about someone they shouldnt b talkin about.
 
SapphireSteel said:
When people think of "trafficking" they think of white slavery, chains, duct tape, chloroform, waking up in strange rooms, but that is usually not the case.

Children can be trafficked by their own families. Young women can be trafficked by their own boyfriends.

Trafficking doesn't mean they necessarily even leave their home or bedroom. Most trafficked children remain in the home, going to school, etc.

The definition of trafficking is for one person to sell another person for profit.

I saw a horrible Dr Phil show where a young girl had been trafficked from the age of 4, repeatedly, by her own father. He sold her to get cheaper drugs.

A random abduction of children for the purposes of trafficking by a stranger is very, very rare. There are plenty of kids whose own carers will do it, especially now with the spread of meth.

:furious:
Click to expand...

I am awaRe of the complexities and varied types of exploitation that are rolloed up under the label of trafficking. I am saying that I see no evidence in the girls' case to indicate they were taken by someone or are being held by someone whose purpose is to traffic or sell or profit financially.

I think it much more likely they were victims of one individual who preyed upon them. A pedophile who lured or abducted them because he could for his own benifit. If that is the case I feel one cousin was the primary target and the other a "bonus" prize.

I do not see money, drug debts or parental involvment being a factor. I do not think the girls are still alive. I wish I did.

MOO
 
MysteryAddict said:
Hi folks,

Off subject- because of Sandy I've been without power for over a week.

Now, I come back and can't find the McStay case which I've been
reading daily for ages.

It says it's been moved but not to where or why????
Anybody here know?

Thanks a lot!

Mystery Addict
Click to expand...

I just went over and looked. It's up and running and still there in the Missing Forum.

O/T Glad to see your power is back and you are here with us again. I hope that you didn't have any damage or if there was, it was minimal.
Sometimes the mods have to do a little housecleaning.
 
tlcox said:
I am awaRe of the complexities and varied types of exploitation that are rolloed up under the label of trafficking. I am saying that I see no evidence in the girls' case to indicate they were taken by someone or are being held by someone whose purpose is to traffic or sell or profit financially.

I think it much more likely they were victims of one individual who preyed upon them. A pedophile who lured or abducted them because he could for his own benifit. If that is the case I feel one cousin was the primary target and the other a "bonus" prize.

I do not see money, drug debts or parental involvment being a factor. I do not think the girls are still alive. I wish I did.

MOO
Click to expand...

I know what I believe and I too wish I didn't.

The recent operation in Evansdale however, gives me a little bit of hope.

LE are quietly working away on this. To execute such a huge operation as the 110 house saturation shows tells me they have a suspicion that the girls were abducted by a local.

:dunno:

I also wondered at the time if LE still think they are alive, just hidden - perhaps in plain sight. They did ask people to be aware that their appearances may have been altered.

:please:

:cow:
 
Boy Dan is getting pretty lucky with this trial on wheels. Geez.
 
The reason I don't suspect trafficking is because both girls had a lot of close relatives who were very involved in their lives. Most, but not all, victims of traffickers who are kidnapped and sold, are runaways who were vulnerable.

There are so many young runaways who are much easier to kidnap. Often people do not report them missing for months, if at all. So why take two little girls who are living with a close knit family? It does not make much sense to me.
 
katydid23 said:
The reason I don't suspect trafficking is because both girls had a lot of close relatives who were very involved in their lives. Most, but not all, victims of traffickers who are kidnapped and sold, are runaways who were vulnerable.

There are so many young runaways who are much easier to kidnap. Often people do not report them missing for months, if at all. So why take two little girls who are living with a close knit family? It does not make much sense to me.
Click to expand...

Me neither.

It is also an aberration to take two children at once, especially one who is adult sized.

We have had a rash of "abductions" lately, most especially Jessica Ridgeway comes to mind.

LE wasted no time in declaring the family uninvolved, and that a predator had taken her.

This has not occurred in Lizzie and Lyric's case...in fact the family have yet to be cleared.

We also had the freak who took the little girl in Wyoming.

It was a truly random abduction - he plucked her off the street.

He was seen, because she was with friends at the time, but only took one.

Overwhelmingly, these predators are cowards. Two kicking screaming girls would just be in the "too hard" basket...especially at a local park where people are about.

Someone laid in wait for these girls...someone who knew they were coming. This also points away from a random crime.

My opinion only.

:cow:
 
SapphireSteel said:
Me neither.

It is also an aberration to take two children at once, especially one who is adult sized.

We have had a rash of "abductions" lately, most especially Jessica Ridgeway comes to mind.

LE wasted no time in declaring the family uninvolved, and that a predator had taken her.

This has not occurred in Lizzie and Lyric's case...in fact the family have yet to be cleared.

We also had the freak who took the little girl in Wyoming.

It was a truly random abduction - he plucked her off the street.

He was seen, because she was with friends at the time, but only took one.

Overwhelmingly, these predators are cowards. Two kicking screaming girls would just be in the "too hard" basket...especially at a local park where people are about.

Someone laid in wait for these girls...someone who knew they were coming. This also points away from a random crime.

My opinion only.

:cow:
Click to expand...

BBM

Who was adult sized? Elizabeth was 8 years old and 4'1", Lyric was 10 years old and 4'11". That seems normal child sized.
 
otto said:
BBM

Who was adult sized? Elizabeth was 8 years old and 4'1", Lyric was 10 years old and 4'11". That seems normal child sized.
Click to expand...

A lot of posters here are about 5 feet tall and weigh only about 100 pounds, so I think that in comparison, Lyric was about the same size or larger than many adult women. But still also"child-sized."
 
I began this case pretty convinced the perp was local or recently returned local who may have had passing familiarity with one of the girls but not associated with family and great familiarity with the area. Hence not random but not targetted. More a perfect storm of wish to grab a child and convenient presence of two victims.

While this computer info has broadened my perspective to include the poesibility of at least one of the girls being targetedand lured I am still leaning towards the first scenerio.

Where are these girls?
 
katydid23 said:
The reason I don't suspect trafficking is because both girls had a lot of close relatives who were very involved in their lives. Most, but not all, victims of traffickers who are kidnapped and sold, are runaways who were vulnerable.

There are so many young runaways who are much easier to kidnap. Often people do not report them missing for months, if at all. So why take two little girls who are living with a close knit family? It does not make much sense to me.
Click to expand...



I think that most "runaways" would be a little bit older and perhaps not as marketable to the worst of the child *advertiser censored* consumers. If these perverts want pre-pubescent children they are going to spend a long time waiting to run across an 8-10 year old girl who no one will miss. The next best thing from their point of view would be to steal a child from a family who has had their own troubles with the law, hoping that police will focus their investigation on the family.

MOO:moo:
 
katydid23 said:
The reason I don't suspect trafficking is because both girls had a lot of close relatives who were very involved in their lives. Most, but not all, victims of traffickers who are kidnapped and sold, are runaways who were vulnerable.

There are so many young runaways who are much easier to kidnap. Often people do not report them missing for months, if at all. So why take two little girls who are living with a close knit family? It does not make much sense to me.
Click to expand...

I agree that they tend to prey on those who aren't likely to be reported missing (or in some cases, not even noticed to be missing). Not only are those children usually less closely supervised, they're often unwanted and being raised by people who don't want to be involved with LE in anyway. A runaway 15 year old, troubled kids in foster homes, young children of drug addicts that are totally out of control, and countless others that seem to be overlooked by society are great targets for them. Two happy, healthy, well-dressed young girls riding decent bikes within blocks home seem like a rather big risk. They might get away with the initial abduction without being seen, but everywhere they go there's a chance that someone will see and recognize at least one of the girls.
 
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