IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #21

[Old_Hippie]

A bit gross, but would the girls remains be skeletonized by now? What stage of decomp would they be at?

Because the "bodies" were found above ground, they would definitely be skeletonized after this length of time. The summer heat would have accelerated decomposition.

 

[Old_Hippie]

Bing map of park: http://binged.it/SImz9C

Just heartbreaking. I was one to hold on to the hope they were still alive. It would seem extremely odd to abduct two for only a short time for pleasure, imo. I think there was more than one perp involved. Was it for their *advertiser censored* and sickness or was it related to the drugs/retaliation? I do want to know how long their little bodies have been laying out there and the approx date of deaths.

Just senseless. May the family find some comfort and peace at this time. The girls are coming home to rest and the knowing where they are is no longer a unanswerable nightmare.

RIP Lyric and Elizabeth You will be remembered and truly missed.
:rose: :rose: :rose:

BBM: It's absolutely evil, IMO. I have also wondered if there were two perps. If it was only one, he must have used a gun or knife to make them go with him. If two people, each could have grabbed one girl. It's very unusual for a double kidnapping to occur with only one abductor. If it were two, it could have been two men or a man and woman. It's very disturbing to think about whomever did this being free to kill again. I hope LE can move swiftly to make an arrest.

 

[Old_Hippie]

I don't think the coroner or ME is going to be able to determine if they died the day they were kidnapped or were alive for awhile afterwards. We may not know that for awhile, if ever.

You're correct, the ME won't be able to specify it down to the day. They should be able to arrive at a range of time, an approximation of how many months. They will be able to use Forensic Entomology and Forensic Botany to arrive at a pretty good estimation. More so the plants than the insects, IMO, at this point. It won't happen over night, either. It will take some time for a forensics lab to make the determinations.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I kindly disagree with you because I would think the perp would want to dispose of the bodies as far away as possible from his home.

Morning cinder.:seeya:

I think a local murderer would dispose of the bodies in a place his is familiar with (in his comfort zone) and has either some attachment to the location personally or has been there with others on several occasions.

They tend to dispose of the body in an area they feel very comfortable that the body will not easily be located. A place where they feel no one will see them disposing of the remains and less likely someone would come upon the perp at the time of disposal.

I do think this is a local killer. One from the general area...from either the same county or a surrounding county.

Now fathers who murder their children's usually will take the bodies many many miles away from where they went missing from......sometimes hundreds of miles away. But Killers like this want the bodies disposed of quickly, imo.

IMO

 

[oceanblueeyes]

You're correct, the ME won't be able to specify it down to the day. They should be able to arrive at a range of time, an approximation of how many months. They will be able to use Forensic Entomology and Forensic Botany to arrive at a pretty good estimation. More so the plants than the insects, IMO, at this point. It won't happen over night, either. It will take some time for a forensics lab to make the determinations.

The ME will have to do a guesstimate now due to the time that has passed. IMO, the TOD timeline will include the day they went missing.

They had to do the same with Danielle Van Dam and they found her a little over two weeks after she went missing. Due to the poor condition of the remains they could only estimate a TOD.

But if this goes to trial and Im praying they will catch this person......the circumstantial evidence will also be used to support a death the day they were abducted, imo.

If this is a pedo and I think it is.. they will rape/murder/ and then dispose of the remains rather quickly in a few short hours of the victim (s) being taken.


IMO

 

[nursebeeme]

I checked in last night before going to bed and noticed the girls have been found, im gutted, and as horrible as it may sound but things like this dont usually get to me emotionally but this has bothered me, thats why i didnt post last night..

My heart goes out to the Parents and relatives of the girls,also for the hunters who discovered them and of course to all you sleuthers who spent so much time on this case.

I hope this is ok to post, i dont even know if its appropriate so i apologise but it was one of the first things i thought off when i read the girls had been found.

May the road rise to meet you,
May the wind be always at your back,
May the sun shine warm upon your face,
The rain fall soft upon your fields,
And, until we meet again
May god hold you in the palm of his hand

God Bless

That is absolutely beautiful SP

 

[tlcya]

Nuresbeeme linked some really god info in the Jesica Ridgeway case regarding killers and how the operate in their "area of comfort"

Basically you will usually find with a local perp that he will arc out from his home or place of work in a circular pattern. It turned out to be pretty accurate in the AS case.

 

[nursebeeme]

Nuresbeeme linked some really god info in the Jesica Ridgeway case regarding killers and how the operate in their "area of comfort"

Basically you will usually find with a local perp that he will arc out from his home or place of work in a circular pattern. It turned out to be pretty accurate in the AS case.

here it is

"awareness space"

http://www.boulderweekly.com/articl...ss-lsawareness-spacers-may-lead-to-clues.html

 

[hollyblue]

That is absolutely beautiful SP

It's a beautiful toast...of which the Irish have many.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

here it is

"awareness space"

http://www.boulderweekly.com/articl...ss-lsawareness-spacers-may-lead-to-clues.html

Thanks.

It said those killers who tend to put bodies in locations where they cant easily be found are usually organized killers instead of disorganized.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Nuresbeeme linked some really god info in the Jesica Ridgeway case regarding killers and how the operate in their "area of comfort"

Basically you will usually find with a local perp that he will arc out from his home or place of work in a circular pattern. It turned out to be pretty accurate in the AS case.

I think it is highly likely that this perp has assisted in the search for the girls and may have attended some of the vigils.

IMO

 

[nursebeeme]

http://www.kcrg.com/evansdaledisappearance

continuing coverage (has live update box)

 

[Old_Hippie]

Morning cinder.:seeya:

I think a local murderer would dispose of the bodies in a place his is familiar with (in his comfort zone) and has either some attachment to the location personally or has been there with others on several occasions.

They tend to dispose of the body in an area they feel very comfortable that the body will not easily be located. A place where they feel no one will see them disposing of the remains and less likely someone would come upon the perp at the time of disposal.

I do think this is a local killer. One from the general area...from either the same county or a surrounding county.

Now fathers who murder their children's usually will take the bodies many many miles away from where they went missing from......sometimes hundreds of miles away. But Killers like this want the bodies disposed of quickly, imo.

IMO

I think it's a local, too.

Some of them also leave the bodies in a place where they can go back and visit their victims, such as would be possible in this remote location. Especially when it isn't hunting season.

 

[Old_Hippie]

I think it is highly likely that this perp has assisted in the search for the girls and may have attended some of the vigils.

IMO

Yes, and may have attended the vigil last night, too. I bet there were undercover detectives watching the crowd and maybe taking video and photographs.

Well, I'm going to bed. See ya' later.

 

[rachaellouise]

If the remains are skeletonized, would they be able to determine if a sexual assault took place?

 

[tlcya]

Depending on the level of decomp the ME may not be able to determine COD easily let alone whether the girls were sexually assaulted.

 

[2girlzmm]

When I heard this on the news last night my heart broke for those poor little girls and their families. Praying that they find the pert quickly and that he gets what he deserves.

 

[enzeder]

FOX 28: In The News Today...Thursday, December 6 2012, 7:16 AM CST

The Black Hawk County Sheriff's Office has scheduled a 4 p.m. news conference today where it is expected they'll announce whether two bodies found by hunters Wednesday afternoon are those of Elizabeth Collins and Lyric Cook. The cousins were last seen riding their bikes in Evansdale on July 13th.

CBS 2 and FOX 28 will carry it live. In the meantime, anyone with information in the case is urged to call the tipline: 319-232-6682.

http://www.fox28iowa.com/

 

[luvhockey]

Sorry for the gigantic link but this is my theory of the route.


https://maps.google.com/maps?saddr=Gilbert+Dr&daddr=42.4674457,-92.2876937+to:US-63+N%2FLarrabee+Ave+to:42.6568205,-92.309618+to:270th+St&hl=en&ll=42.48058,-92.297344&spn=0.079379,0.16325&sll=42.468963,-92.278461&sspn=0.019848,0.040812&geocode=FR_0hwIdOs5_-g%3BFXUAiAIdM81_-ilx-d2B7E3lhzF9jSWGvCPIdg%3BFTXkigIdXAx_-g%3BFTTkigIdjnd_-imJcjeI2a_6hzEaZAeyjIQOQg%3BFUrjigIdIsaB-g&t=h&mra=dpe&mrsp=1&sz=15&via=1,3&z=13

I thought this too. Hwy 63 N goes right by the trailer park with 5 RSO then 270th St E to the county park.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

If the remains are skeletonized, would they be able to determine if a sexual assault took place?

Sadly, no. That is why I am hoping their clothing was at the site too. Maybe by some miracle there is some kind of DNA that can be found on the clothing.

imo