IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #22

[dadgum]

There were dozens of sites that came up regarding feral hogs/wild boar in IA. Mia culpa..I just grabbed one, lol

From my experience locally in NC (yes, I live here, and here is what I know best) the game folks do not list all the counties with boar/coyote activity, though all 100 counties are thought to have them. I have been told we don't have them, while looking at a pack in my pasture(coyote) and on my road (boar). If attacks are not reported to wildlife, they do not list them in that area.

I might also point out, you don't have to see them for them to be present. If you ask the locals, they'll tell you loons(the birds, lolol) don't live here, and yet..here they are.

Everything is speculation, even by folks living in the area. We just do not know.

Let's calm down, and have some pie..

 

[Marilynilpa]

If the perp was there recently then hopefully there is tire tracks. It is very common for killers to revisit their dump site.

IF this is a dump site, which I'm still waiting for LE to confirm.

 

[MotherOcean]

I know this is probably a dumb question, but I'm wondering why the sheet looking things (assumed to be covering the spots where the bodies were found) in the photos are uniform in shape. They are both shaped the same way and aren't a regular square or a rectangle. They are more like pentagons with three sides of uniform length and two sides that sort of angle up together, not quite to a point but sorta! Atleast that's what they look like to me. I actually don't have the photos right in front of me now and am pulling from my memory from looking at the photos earlier today. Maybe the "tops" are flat or maybe more like a point. I'm not sure. Just wondering why they aren't more regular in shape. They don't look like sheets or tarps. To me they look like wraps. I know the bodies were probably removed before these were put out, but they actually almost look body shaped to me.

Maybe they are staked to the ground, but the shape is just weird to me.

I apologize if this has been mentioned before, I simply can't go back and read all of the posts.

 

[pearl]

http://www.extension.iastate.edu/forestry/research/feral_hogs/feralhogs.html

Please note that I do not in any way think feral pigs/hogs/wild boars were responsible for anything in connection with Lyric and Lizzie. But I wanted to answer the pigs/no pigs question, and the link I provided is to a reputable source.

http://www.extension.iastate.edu/forestry/research/feral_hogs/images/fh.map07ia.jpg

an inset map taken from the one posted by Marilynilpa. Notice the red county southeast of Black Hawk.

 

[cindersoot]

IF this is a dump site, which I'm still waiting for LE to confirm.

Dump site, murder site, either one. They still revisit these sites.

 

[Confusion]

I really doubt they were "well cared for" for months before being killed.

So do I.

 

[cindersoot]

I know this is probably a dumb question, but I'm wondering why the sheet looking things (assumed to be covering the spots where the bodies were found) in the photos are uniform in shape. They are both shaped the same way and aren't a regular square or a rectangle. They are more like pentagons with three sides of uniform length and two sides that sort of angle up together, not quite to a point but sorta! Atleast that's what they look like to me. I actually don't have the photos right in front of me now and am pulling from my memory from looking at the photos earlier today. Maybe the "tops" are flat or maybe more like a point. I'm not sure. Just wondering why they aren't more regular in shape. They don't look like sheets or tarps. To me they look like wraps. I know the bodies were probably removed before these were put out, but they actually almost look body shaped to me.

Maybe they are staked to the ground, but the shape is just weird to me.

I apologize if this has been mentioned before, I simply can't go back and read all of the posts.

You know how when LE tape or draw around a body at a crime scene? Well maybe thats why the sheets look like that. An outline of a body because they can't draw in grassy brush. jmo

 

[otto]

I know this is probably a dumb question, but I'm wondering why the sheet looking things (assumed to be covering the spots where the bodies were found) in the photos are uniform in shape. They are both shaped the same way and aren't a regular square or a rectangle. They are more like pentagons with three sides of uniform length and two sides that sort of angle up together, not quite to a point but sorta! Atleast that's what they look like to me. I actually don't have the photos right in front of me now and am pulling from my memory from looking at the photos earlier today. Maybe the "tops" are flat or maybe more like a point. I'm not sure. Just wondering why they aren't more regular in shape. They don't look like sheets or tarps. To me they look like wraps. I know the bodies were probably removed before these were put out, but they actually almost look body shaped to me.

Maybe they are staked to the ground, but the shape is just weird to me.

I apologize if this has been mentioned before, I simply can't go back and read all of the posts.

Bit blurry ... but better than nothing

source: wcfcourier.com

 

[Marilynilpa]

Look at the Gazette photos and the map - <modsnip>
Few roads in, few roads out, farms both sides, rural civilisation, people,
the park is a known place, straight walk down from the road ... to a
fisherman or hiker this is nothing ... sand bars ... pretty place by all
accounts and the photos ... not Denali Park in Alaska! This is Ioway!
Go Hawks!

I'm curious - your location says Sedona, AZ. Do you live in Iowa? It sounds like you have local/regional knowledge of the area.

 

[Progressforward]

There's farmland on each side of the road leading back to 7 Bridges. Were workers brought in to farm that land? Did they see anyone coming and going while there?

I just thought to add them to the hunters & people fishing there who might remember something.

jmo

My random thoughts...

1. I believe 7 Bridges was a dump site that was scouted out by the perp.

2, The perp had plenty of time to find the perfect spot (and I think it was very familiar area for him). Harvest was completed 1 month ahead of schedule this year because of the drought. Most fields were harvested by mid-October at the latest. The number of farm workers would depend on the size of the equipment used and the size of the fields. (Each square mile of land is 640 acres.) (On average I'd estimate 3 workers per field....one in the combine, one in the chase cart, and one driving semi....this can certainly fluctuate by farmer). When I look at this photo

http://wcfcourier.com/news/evansdal...ion_12862912-cdd5-11e1-a9b3-0019bb2963f4.html

the first thing I notice is that the ground to the right of the road has tillage already done. Because of the amount of debris on top I think this was planted to corn this year. On the left side of the road I believe it was planted to soybeans because there is no tillage. I don't see any NH3 tracks in the bean field....nor do I see them in the corn field. Whoever farms this ground on both sides of the road may be waiting to make sure the ground temp is right before applying nh3.

3. Having a car from another county come down the road while harvesting isn't that unusual. Many hunters start a month ahead of time watching for deer/pheasant activity. Pheasant hunting started Oct 27 and it's lawful to hunt the ditches in Iowa....which many do. So to have people come down the road to the entrance of this park wouldn't be unusual....especially if they were known in the area to hunt. The farmer may think the person is checking for wildlife, when in reality the person was checking to see the pattern of people activity.

4. Temps just started to cool down, so 7 Bridges keg party activities may be starting to slow down (Wapsie Valley Jr & Sr High is 5 miles drive .... and I'm pretty sure the student body would use this as a party site. It's remote, but it's also a good place because if you get raided you've got plenty to hide behind, then walk home later).

5. Farmers are done with tillage, high schoolers are looking for warmer places to party, snow should be coming soon (like within the next 24 hrs) and that is why I think the drop happened within the last few weeks. MOO

 

[roseofsharon]

Bit blurry ... but better than nothing

source: wcfcourier.com

They look like they could be forensic tents.

 

[MotherOcean]

My suspect is an avid hunter and would know this area for sure. JMO

:what:

 

[MotherOcean]

They look like they could be forensic tents.

I bet that's it! Now I really do feel dumb! Of course they aren't just laid on the ground like a sheet!


EDIT: Actually, I'm not sure. The people in the photo are clearly standing upright but the white things don't have the same 3 dimensional look.

 

[Marilynilpa]

Dump site, murder site, either one. They still revisit these sites.

I wonder if it's true that a murderer always returns to the scene of the crime.

I do know that some serial killers, including Ted Bundy and Gary Ridgeway a/k/a the Green River Killer revisited some of their victims. But I don't know if that is "normal", or as normal as these folks get.

In this case, if the girls were abducted/killed for non-sexual purposes, do you feel like the killer(s) would return to the site? If they didn't kill for sexual thrills, would they get any kind of sick satisfaction by returning to visit the bodies?

I'm jumping off your post, cindersoot, and my questions aren't necessarily directed to you.

 

[not_my_kids]

If they are forensic tents and not sheets, they could be positioned where they are to help with sifting for small bones,and not be the actual locations where the bodies were found at all.

 

[TeenyTaurus]

I know this is probably a dumb question, but I'm wondering why the sheet looking things (assumed to be covering the spots where the bodies were found) in the photos are uniform in shape. They are both shaped the same way and aren't a regular square or a rectangle. They are more like pentagons with three sides of uniform length and two sides that sort of angle up together, not quite to a point but sorta! Atleast that's what they look like to me. I actually don't have the photos right in front of me now and am pulling from my memory from looking at the photos earlier today. Maybe the "tops" are flat or maybe more like a point. I'm not sure. Just wondering why they aren't more regular in shape. They don't look like sheets or tarps. To me they look like wraps. I know the bodies were probably removed before these were put out, but they actually almost look body shaped to me.

Maybe they are staked to the ground, but the shape is just weird to me.

I apologize if this has been mentioned before, I simply can't go back and read all of the posts.

I have read that some LE agencies use what is called a "body shield" over a victim. It's actually discouraged to use, say, tarps or sheets, as such can disturb a crime scene, even destroy "trace" evidence. I would assume, then, that what is seen in the photos in this case are, maybe, specially designed covers. As it started to rain, I would think such was appropriate to shield against that... as well as those pesky "helicopters" employed by MSM.

 

[TxLady2]

someone had reason to be at the Lake in Evansdale and now at this
untended County park ... there is a possible link ... park employee or park
worker ... also seems time spoecific from time of abdunction to recent
body deposit (links with a county work period or county program
period?). The perp knew of the body location. Few migrants would
stumble onto a place like that - somebody knew it existed -

Starts at the Lake in Evanasdale and ends at this specific untended park. Somebody knows
these places and has a reason to be there during the critical time periods ...

I think their reason for being at the location where the bodies were found was to dump the bodies, possibly the murders were committed there as well. Why would someone have to have a reason for being there?

I could be wrong entirely, but it does not look all that remote to me, nor does it look like a thickly wooded area. Some trees, yes, maybe tall weeds. But not nearly as thick and overgrown as the area I am from. We can walk a quarter of a mile behind our house and be in woods so thick you can get lost before you know it. So isn't it possible that even someone who does not know the area that well could stumble across this place by accident? There is a lake close by and I noticed that it wasn't that far away from where cars/trucks could get to. I just don't get this idea that someone had to know the area very well. Isn't that how so many places got discovered in this country to begin with? By exploring? It's not like it's 100 miles from civilization.

 

[otto]

http://www.extension.iastate.edu/forestry/research/feral_hogs/images/fh.map07ia.jpg

an inset map taken from the one posted by Marilynilpa. Notice the red county southeast of Black Hawk.

GD and Nurse (I think) both linked sites describing the environment and wildlife. I don't have the links anymore ... pigs were not mentioned ... at least I didn't see it. There may well be wild pigs in Iowa, but I don't think they lived in this park. Private land borders the park. The bodies were found on government land.

 

[cindersoot]

Bit blurry ... but better than nothing

source: wcfcourier.com

Wonderful, thanks.

 

[Marilynilpa]

Many threads ago, I unintentionally got a big discussion going about pig farms when I asked if there were any in the Evansdale/Waterloo area. And now there's a whole feral pig discussion taking place on this thread.

I, for one, have learned more about pigs than I ever wanted to know!