IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #23

[nikb]

Oooohhh. See? I told you I was confused! lol Just pass the cookie jar and I'll shut up

Nooo no shutting up! But I'll pass the cookie jar.

 

[SapphireSteel]

This is how the height/weight debate started (unintentionally)

SapphireSteel
Registered User Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,803

Quote:
Originally Posted by epiphany
Snippets from today's Live Interview of Heather and Drew posted at link below:

Today, 2:37 pm
Ron: You believe the perpetrator is a sex offender? Drew: "I would bet money. I would bet everything I own... That's just my gut."

Today, 2:36 pm
Drew: "(Child molesters) need to go to prison for a longer time...We have the technology to watch these guys."

Today, 2:36 pm
Drew: "If they're attracted to an 8-yr-old girl and you send them to prison for 4 yrs, they get out and are still attracted to 8-yr-olds."
Today, 2:35 pm
Drew: Kids aren't able to go outside and play, and that's not fair.

Today, 2:34 pm
Drew: "I just want this person to be caught so they can't hurt anyone else. I think our community needs that to start the healing process."

http://www.kwwl.com/ ^^^BBM

But Lyric wasn't an 8 year old girl.

She was a 10 year old girl who resembled an adult in general appearance, height, weight.

Is Drew implying that Lizzie was the target?

This doesn't make much sense to me, as only Lizzie would have been taken.

I wasn't intending to imply anything more than, if a predator is after an 8 year old, then taking a large-for-her-age- 10 year old as well is not logical.

I don't know if Lyric had stopped growing, how could I? But she was very large for a 10 year old, and Lizzie was tiny.

Predators almost always take one child, which fits their fantasy. They have no use for a child that gets "too old" or adult sized.

I know Americans tend to be larger than say, Europeans, but 145lb is about what I weigh, and I'm no lightweight...in fact I need to lose 20lb and I'm 5'5.

 

[iamnotagolem]

Agree iamnotagolem. We have seen so many missing/murdered person cases grow cold due to the refusal of investigators to utilize their most valuable resource; the American public via ms media & the internet..

RE: Austin Sigg

LE had taken a DNA swab of Sigg, a few days before the phone call. The lab results, once completed, would have pointed back to him as Jessica Ridgeway's abductor/killer, imo. His mom had no choice but to make the phone call, imo..glad she did the right thing...

(snipped)
According to KMGH, our Scripps station in Denver, a woman identifying herself as Sigg's aunt said the teen went to his mother on Tuesday with "disturbing information," and she urged him to call police and turn himself in.

Read more: http://www.kshb.com/dpp/news/national/arrest-made-in-jessica-ridgeway-case#ixzz2Esdav2vY

I agree they would have eventually gotten Austin due to the DNA, but they had obtained over 500 samples IIRC and it could have taken a while to get those tests all back. He could have killed again before being caught.

I do agree his mom turning him in was the best thing to happen.

 

[SapphireSteel]

I am not sure why people think it matters in this case, but I would like to say...
While men may continue to get taller until their early 20's a females height does NOT.

I won't even speculate as to where Lyric was developmentally speaking but...
After the first period a females height typically only increases by +/- 2-3 inches.

The earlier that is the shorter the females stature will be.

"Once girls start to menstruate, they usually grow about 1 or 2 more inches, reaching their final adult height by about age 14 or 15 years (younger or older depending on when puberty began)."

http://kidshealth.org/parent/growth/growth/growth_13_to_18.html

I would say that from the recent pictures, Lyric either had begun her cycle or was about to.

She was developing.

ETA: if she were my daughter, she would already have her first bra.

 

[gngr~snap]

But Lyric wasn't an 8 year old girl.

She was a 10 year old girl who resembled an adult in general appearance, height, weight.

Is Drew implying that Lizzie was the target?

This doesn't make much sense to me, as only Lizzie would have been taken. [/COLOR]

I wasn't intending to imply anything more than, if a predator is after an 8 year old, then taking a large-for-her-age- 10 year old as well is not logical.

I don't know if Lyric had stopped growing, how could I? But she was very large for a 10 year old, and Lizzie was tiny.

Predators almost always take one child, which fits their fantasy. They have no use for a child that gets "too old" or adult sized.

I know Americans tend to be larger than say, Europeans, but 145lb is about what I weigh, and I'm no lightweight...in fact I need to lose 20lb and I'm 5'5.

Respectfully snipped for space.

I agree with you.
as far as an SO is concerned.

They have their preferences. Lizzie and Lyric were IMO not equals here...

Perhaps both were taken due to the circumstances?
A single perp SO would have only wanted one or the other... not both...
I base this solely on my research of pedofiles...


as always moo

 

[GrainneDhu]

TY. I had expected to be laughed off the brd for my question.

I hope the rumor that HRD trained dog was brought in before LE released the scene proves true. It had simply come to me that that would be a darn good idea.

Now I'll go back out on the same limb: Does anybody think that SAR dogs would have been brought in, also???

My thoughts now are that, obviously, the perp was alive going into the scene and alive leaving the scene. IMHO, perp would have left his scent on the bodies, girls' clothing(if applicable), the pathways through the grasses/brush, and possibly on any trash he might have tossed out of the vehicle. ???

Is it possible that a SAR dog, being started off at the body sites, could pick up perp's live scent and know to follow it????

The oldest track I've ever heard of a SAR successfully working out was something like 150 hours. That's a little over 6 days.

 

[SapphireSteel]

Respectfully snipped for space.

I agree with you.
as far as an SO is concerned.

They have their preferences. Lizzie and Lyric were IMO not equals here...

Perhaps both were taken due to the circumstances?
A single perp SO would have only wanted one or the other... not both...
I base this solely on my research of pedofiles...


as always moo

Yes, I in no way meant to imply that "Lyric was too big for a SO" because I don't know what happened to the girls yet.

I merely stated that in my opinion, Drew seemed to be saying Lizzie was the target for a pedo after a tiny 8 year old, and this seemed inconsistent with the abduction of two girls of different size.

That's all I was trying to say...not quite sure why it has become a debate on height/weight of the American tweenager.

:cow:

 

[Foxfire]

http://www.kwwl.com/category/130142...d=8060551&topVideoCatNo=132414&autoStart=true

Here's the video.

Elizabeth's favorite gospel song: Oh Happy Day


Oh Happy Day! (Full version) - Choeur Gospel Célébration de Québec & Sylvie Desgroseilliers - YouTube

RIP Elizabeth & Lyric..

 

[nikb]

http://www.kwwl.com/category/130142...d=8060551&topVideoCatNo=132414&autoStart=true

Here's the video.

Thanks button so wasn't enough. THANK YOU!!!

(whoever makes Kleenex thanks you too... )

 

[Mjskit]

Can someone please clarify the significance they feel is attributed to Lyric's height and weight?

I think regardless of her being larger than many adult women, I think she clearly had the physique of a little girl. My BFFs niece is probably about the same size/build as Lyric only 6-8 inches taller, but she is clearly still a little girl and not much mistaking her for an adult.

While I am smaller than Lyric, I would never be confused for a 10 y/o (21 y/o yes from time to time). The weight displacement on a child is much different from an adult or even teen who has hit puberty.

Lack of good parenting left me alone to do what I wanted with who I wanted. When I was 9 I had to go to the ER with my mother when she attempted suicide. I was in a bikini and the comments and offers men made were many. When I was 12 I got into bars with a fake ID. I have looked older ever since I can remember and have been told it is because of how I carry myself. What they really meant (I think) is that I was mentally more mature than others my age because of my childhood experiences.

 

[SapphireSteel]

The oldest track I've ever heard of a SAR successfully working out was something like 150 hours. That's a little over 6 days.

In some circumstances, scent can remain for years.

It helps to use an analogy to explain - dogs "see" scent the way you or I see colour.

It appears to them to be little balls of colour, which is why they don't mix them up - we don't confuse purple with yellow either.

Scent pours off us, whereever we go, leaving this trail that a dog can "see".

The colour may fade in the sun and rain and weather, but it is still identifiable, and can remain so in protected spots almost indefinitely.

 

[cindersoot]

So LE showed the family the girls shoes and they identified them.

 

[SapphireSteel]

Lack of good parenting left me alone to do what I wanted with who I wanted. When I was 9 I had to go to the ER with my mother when she attempted suicide. I was in a bikini and the comments and offers men made were many. When I was 12 I got into bars with a fake ID. I have looked older ever since I can remember and have been told it is because of how I carry myself. What they really meant (I think) is that I was mentally more mature than others my age because of my childhood experiences.

I'm so sorry to hear that re your mum, how awful for a little girl.

As a totally irrelevant aside, I have always been mistaken for younger. I am nearly 50 and a new acquaintance told me she genuinely thought I was in my 20s.

:what:

My own mother, nearly 80, often gets callers on the phone who ask to speak to her mother because they assume she's a little girl.

:lol:

Age can be deceptive, by my point is, a pedo after a tiny 8 year old is not going to be excited by a 145lb 10 year old, in my opinion. Certainly not tempted enough to drag her kicking and screaming, into a vehicle in a public park, then going back a second time to get the one he really wants.

:moo:

 

[nikb]

Just finished what I think is the latest interview... hadn't ever heard of or heard an interview from Ron Steele before (please don't laugh at me). I really like his approach. (ETA: and yeah, need more Kleenex...)

 

[callyn]

Just watched the interview with Heather and Drew Collins. I had to stop it several times and get more tissues and take deep breaths then start it again. They are so strong. Drew just breaks my heart. Heather too, of course. With her health issues on top of this tragedy, she is amazing.

 

[gngr~snap]

Ehh... some people see Lyric as a child.
Others see her as more of a young woman.

Her life was cut too soon as well as Lizzie's... I think everyone agrees with that!

 

[Snufamonbobball]

For anyone who is interested here is the online tribute guestbook for Elizabeth.

http://www.overtonservice.com/fh/obituaries/tribute.cfm?o_id=1867384&fh_id=14409

 

[24Roses]

It will be livestreamed on KWWL per the girls Facebook site.

What is the name of the Facebook site? :tyou:

 

[Snufamonbobball]

Here is Elizabeth's obituary. So so sad...be sure you have a box of kleenex. The pictures are heartbreaking.

http://wcfcourier.com/lifestyles/an...cle_2d8c30ea-4471-11e2-92d2-001a4bcf887a.html

 

[foxbluff]

The oldest track I've ever heard of a SAR successfully working out was something like 150 hours. That's a little over 6 days.

Ohhh... crop!!! ):

It's not the answer I wanted to hear, but I'm very grateful for your response. I had feared that my question would be lost forever as it was posted just before "live news" broke on this thread... TY.