IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #23

[Marilynilpa]

The obit states that she passed away on July 13. Is it usual in abduction/body found scenarios that they state the date that the person went missing as the date of passing... or is this a tell?

The obituary says what Drew and Heather wanted it to say, IMO. I think it's possible that, now that Lizzie is deceased, they consider the last day they saw her to be the day she died. In other words, they never saw her alive again after that day. JMO. So I don't read too much into the date.

 

[Marilynilpa]

FWIW...

The funeral home has Elizabeths date of Death as July 15th... don't know if it means anything or not...

http://www.overtonservice.com/fh/obituaries/obituary.cfm?o_id=1867384&fh_id=14409

Where do you see that? Under her name, I see July 21, 2003 - July 13, 2012.

 

[Elley Mae]

http://www.kwwl.com/story/20330710/...mera-for-first-time-since-discovery-of-bodies

Elizabeth Collins' parents on camera for first time since bodies found

 

[Ms Pragmatic]

I think the date of death listed in the obituary is accurate. Not reading anything into it, but I have believed in my heart that they were murdered very soon after being taken. Keeping two girls alive(especially if this is a local)for any length of time would be rare and impractical. Girls scream. Very loudly. Especially pre-pubescent girls. May they rest in peace now.

 

[TeenyTaurus]

I watched the interview and, as stated by a few others, I refuse to pick statements apart. However, there was one statement in regards to perpetrators in general: "They always leave something behind." There is no such thing as the 'perfect crime' and so this is very true. Not only 'left behind,' but mistakes in general. I do feel such WAS made in this case. I have felt all along that the perp has quite possibly been aware of such, and hoped no one would 'catch' it. I have a pretty good idea, as this investigation now has a lot more than simply 'bodies,' that such will come to light.

 

[GrainneDhu]

Not saying that this interview gives us concrete proof of anything, but I am surely going to look more closely at theories that are more in line with those of the family. They know more than I do. I would bet my life on it.

I agree.

At the end of the interview, Drew said something along the lines of "I would bet money... everything I have, that this person is a sex offender and has previous offences. That's my gut feeling." The wording may not be 100% word for word but the general sense is there.

 

[iamnotagolem]

I try not to read too much into Misty and Heather's rift, either. If I even remotely had any inclination that my sibling's behavior and life choices contributed to my child dying, I'd be very pissed and very verbal about it. I think Heather not badmouthing her sister in public is showing a lot of restraint.

This is not to say that I think that Misty had anything to do with the kidnapping, but if the perp turns out to be someone connected to her, then Heather's emotions are understandable.

 

[GrainneDhu]

I didn't hear the live interview.

Those who did, what did Heather say that makes you believe that she agreed with the interviewer when he said he assumed the bodies had been there for quite some time?

She nodded her head and murmured "yes."

 

[otto]

She nodded her head and murmured "yes."

I'm going to assume that the family knows what condition the children were found, and that there's a good reason for stating that Elizabeth passed away on July 13.

I have to give the family an awful lot of credit. I haven't listened to the entire interview ... only the first part ... but it's so obvious to me that they're not going to give the perp any power. They don't want to dwell on anything that he did to the children, they don't want to know what he did and they are not going to let the focus be on him. I think that's fantastic!

 

[FrayedKnot]

BBM

Closure is very overused, IMO. In my experience there is no closure. You just begin on a road to rebuilding your life, and hope that you succeed.

I have never felt "closure", just gradual acceptance.

ITA. I have lost a child, a mother, a friend, my first marriage and all of my grandparents.

It is just a matter of grieving, taking a deep breath, and then pushing on despite the wounds that honestly never really heal.

You just learn to live with open wounds is all.

 

[GrainneDhu]

Can someone please clarify the significance they feel is attributed to Lyric's height and weight?

I think regardless of her being larger than many adult women, I think she clearly had the physique of a little girl. My BFFs niece is probably about the same size/build as Lyric only 6-8 inches taller, but she is clearly still a little girl and not much mistaking her for an adult.

While I am smaller than Lyric, I would never be confused for a 10 y/o (21 y/o yes from time to time). The weight displacement on a child is much different from an adult or even teen who has hit puberty.

I agree.

Lyric was far from the height of an average adult woman anyway. The average height of an adult woman is 5 foot 4.25 inches; Lyric was a good 5 inches shorter than that.

Most adult women who are so short have a very curvy build, what is often called an hourglass figure. Lyric had no figure in that sense, she was still more or less a column with no sharply defined waistline or hip swell.

Even from a distance, I think most people would have identified Lyric as pre-pubescent simply because it is incredibly rare for an adult woman that short not to have well defined curves.

 

[FrayedKnot]

useless knowledge I guess...
:blushing: us TALL girls are typically late bloomers...

Yeppers. 5'11" here and I was 13 when I began my cycles. The last of my friends to do so. Whoa. Way TMI. Sorry.

 

[epiphany]

I'm going to assume that the family knows what condition the children were found, and that there's a good reason for stating that Elizabeth passed away on July 13.

I have to give the family an awful lot of credit. I haven't listened to the entire interview ... only the first part ... but it's so obvious to me that they're not going to give the perp any power. They don't want to dwell on anything that he did to the children, they don't want to know what he did and they are not going to let the focus be on him. I think that's fantastic!

Amazing individuals. Both Heather and Drew.

I don't have a religious bone in my entire body. Not a sliver.

Epiphany, an ah-ha moment.

Salt of the earth these two. People like this, restore my faith in humanity.

 

[iamnotagolem]

Yeppers. 5'11" here and I was 13 when I began my cycles. The last of my friends to do so. Whoa. Way TMI. Sorry.

I totally got ripped off, I'm only 5'2" and didn't start until I was 15. Booooo

 

[cluciano63]

I'm not sure I could be forgiving if a family member's illegal habits caused the murder of my child, if indeed that was the case here, which I am not at all saying it is. Probably makes me a "bad" person, but there it is. I don't think I could ever look at that person again.

 

[gngr~snap]

Yeppers. 5'11" here and I was 13 when I began my cycles. The last of my friends to do so. Whoa. Way TMI. Sorry.

more TMI... I was 14 1/2!
BMI has something to do with it too! 5% body fat is required....

I was a gymnast and a ballet dancer... way too much exercise!
I grew 7 inches after I quit! ~at 13~

 

[FrayedKnot]

This is how the height/weight debate started (unintentionally)

SapphireSteel
Registered User Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,803

Quote:
Originally Posted by epiphany
Snippets from today's Live Interview of Heather and Drew posted at link below:

Today, 2:37 pm
Ron: You believe the perpetrator is a sex offender? Drew: "I would bet money. I would bet everything I own... That's just my gut."

Today, 2:36 pm
Drew: "(Child molesters) need to go to prison for a longer time...We have the technology to watch these guys."

Today, 2:36 pm
Drew: "If they're attracted to an 8-yr-old girl and you send them to prison for 4 yrs, they get out and are still attracted to 8-yr-olds."
Today, 2:35 pm
Drew: Kids aren't able to go outside and play, and that's not fair.

Today, 2:34 pm
Drew: "I just want this person to be caught so they can't hurt anyone else. I think our community needs that to start the healing process."

http://www.kwwl.com/ ^^^BBM

But Lyric wasn't an 8 year old girl.

She was a 10 year old girl who resembled an adult in general appearance, height, weight.

Is Drew implying that Lizzie was the target?

This doesn't make much sense to me, as only Lizzie would have been taken.

I wasn't intending to imply anything more than, if a predator is after an 8 year old, then taking a large-for-her-age- 10 year old as well is not logical.

I don't know if Lyric had stopped growing, how could I? But she was very large for a 10 year old, and Lizzie was tiny.

Predators almost always take one child, which fits their fantasy. They have no use for a child that gets "too old" or adult sized.

I know Americans tend to be larger than say, Europeans, but 145lb is about what I weigh, and I'm no lightweight...in fact I need to lose 20lb and I'm 5'5.

I have a daughter who is 11. She is 5'4" and weighs about 125. And she looks like a "little" girl.

IMO, so did Lyric. Jeebus, she was just big for her age, she wasn't some behemoth with hooker makeup and stilettos.

She was a LITTLE GIRL. Just like Lizzie.

I was a "Big" girl, too, and it sucked. Teachers and other adults always assumed the little "petite" kids were all sweet and innocent and kids like me were just the same as adults. We got the blame for things because we should "know better" even though we were often times YOUNGER than the little waif like children.

Lyric was a little girl. And she was murdered. And her death is every bit as sad as Lizzie's. But you'd not know it reading MSM articles and comments.

This isn't directed at you, SS. I was just jumping off your post.

I am so stinking mad so I will hush up now.

 

[GrainneDhu]

Respectfully snipped for space.

I agree with you.
as far as an SO is concerned.

They have their preferences. Lizzie and Lyric were IMO not equals here...

Perhaps both were taken due to the circumstances?
A single perp SO would have only wanted one or the other... not both...
I base this solely on my research of pedofiles...

as always moo

There are several cases where a perp took control of a couple together even though he was only attracted to women. So he immobilises the man (often by shooting him) and assaults the woman before killing her. In such cases, where there is a potential victim the perp wants, anyone else present is superfluous.

It's also amazing how many times the perp attempts to kill the male half of the couple but fails out of sheer disinterest. In cases where a couple is taken and one person survives, it's almost always the man. The woman is usually a victim of overkill.

If this perp were only interested in Elizabeth or Lyric, he would just kill the one and assault the other before killing her.

And here's a possible theory for the placement of the bodies at 7 Bridges. The perp killed Elizabeth in his vehicle, then walked Lyric through the woods and to the clearing where he assaulted and then killed her. Afterwards, he went back to his vehicle and carried Elizabeth to the same clearing but was either unable to find Lyric's body or just didn't care.

Obviously this assumes that the killer wanted Lyric and to him, Elizabeth was just inconvenient.

 

[StormyNights]

I just got done watching the interview in it's entirety. I have NEVER in my life seen two people so strong in their faith as Heather and Drew are. It just blows me away. What a wonderful couple they are, and just beautiful people. I was angry and upset before about Lizzie and Lyric, but after watching the home Lizzie and sometimes Lyric was ripped from, I am furious!! :furious: I truly hope this person burns :moo:

 

[cluciano63]

I don't believe that most RSO's are that specific when it comes to age of their victims. They may have a preferred type, but when they are determined, for lack of another word, I think they will improvise. And if they had taken only one child, the other would have had a description and would have gone for help at once.