IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #23

[B4igo2it]

BBM: I know EXACTLY what you mean! :floorlaugh: :floorlaugh::blushing:

:noooo::censored::tmi:

 

[Snowbunny]

I didn't realize Readlyn was only 7 minutes from Seven Bridges park. I shudder to think if the kidnapping CMF was accused of had been successful if the victim would also have been taken to Sevenbridges as well. lease:

I hate to say this and with all due respect, it sounds like you've already tried and convicted this guy for the cousins' abduction and murders and he's not been named a POI yet that we know of. I didn't think we were allowed to make remarks or accusations like this on WS since LE has not named a POI or suspect yet. Don't get me wrong, you've done a great job finding things about this guy, but from a legal stand point I would think we'd have to be careful not to actually accuse him.

 

[JaimeInLA]

I'm a dog trainer so please excuse me if the following seems insensitive; it isn't meant that way.

Puppies are born with immunity from the diseases their mothers are immune to (which includes immunity from vaccination). Until that maternal immunity wears off, vaccination shots don't work because their little bodies already have those immune cells. At some point the maternal immunity fades and then their bodies take over the job of producing immune cells. Unfortunately, there is a window period where maternal immunity is too low to offer reliable protection from disease but too high to trigger their bodies to produce immune cells. This window period lasts about a week and can happen anywhere between 6 and 24 weeks of age.

Research shows that the developmental period during which puppies easily accept novelty is between birth and 12-14 weeks old. Most anything that a puppy has a positive reaction to during this period of time will be accepted throughout the puppy's life as normal. Early socialisation is important for bite control, among other things (fear is by far the most common reason dogs bite).

So, look at those timelines. There's definitely a chance of a gap there, when the puppy needs socialisation experiences but may not be immune to diseases.

There was a time when vets strongly recommended that puppies not be exposed to the world at large until 16 weeks old, due to the fear of disease. But that also means that the puppy is not being exposed to life at large and runs the risk of not being able to accept normal things easily.

So what's a good dog owner to do? Wrap their puppy up in cotton wool and HEPA filtres, do lots of titre testing and not expose the puppy to the world until they are certain the puppy has good immunity? Or expose the puppy to the world, accepting the risk of disease?

Making that decision involves mentally balancing the risk factors. Is being safe from disease more important than learning about the world? Is being less likely to bite a human being more important than protecting the puppy from potential diseases?

There is no single correct answer, it all depends on the individual owner and puppy.

So how does all this apply to raising children? It seems to me that there is a direct correlation. It's natural to want to keep children totally, completely, as close to 100% safe as possible... except that is not always in the child's own best interests. Unlike dogs, children do grow up and eventually have to face the world on their own. So a wise parent realises that they have to release the death grip on their child at some point before the child hits 18 and can legally say "you can't stop me, nyah nyah nyah!" Or the child hits 18, 19, 20, 25, etc, and refuses to leave the parental home out of fear of the outside world.

I've seen what can happen to a kid whose life is too strictly controlled and bound by a parent. My best friend didn't even wait until he was 18 to say "I'm going and you can't stop me!" Then he spent 15 years doing the most dangerous stuff he could find in order to somehow prove to his mother that she couldn't stop him. I'm so grateful one of his early steps was to join the Army, which gave him a sort of safe environment to be a reckless daredevil (door gunner, sniper, etc).

Frankly, if he were my kid, his life would give me heart attacks. He scares me sometimes even now but the only thing I cannot say to him is "please don't do that because it is too risky." All I can say is "can I hold your beer for you?" Yeah, we're rednecks.

Each parent has to decide where the right balance between freedom and the attendant risks vs safety and the attendant risks lies. And no parent makes the perfect decision every single day.

Usually, the mistakes are not fatal but sometimes they are.

BBM

Under normal circumstances, I agree with this. However, if there were EVER a time to watch your kid more closely, it is when there is a known kidnapper and/or killer of children on the loose in your neighborhood!! Had the Westminster police warned the community about the attempted abductions, Jessica Ridgeway's mom might have given her a ride to school that day and she'd still be alive.

Parents can't know when to hold their kids close and when to give them freedom if they don't have all the information! If LE believes Lyric and Elizabeth were abducted at random, the community MOST DEFINITELY deserves to know that so they can choose to not give their kids freedom until that killer is caught.

 

[Progressforward]

The orange crime scene flag puzzles me. I have been chewing on the idea of its meaning since 5 and now wonder if it means nothing at all. I read some msm report that referred to these markers been placed about the scene but we only see a pic of this one?

I think it was inadvertently dropped upon exitting and clearing the scene. If LE had just left them all behind I would expect the site to be littered with them.

:slaphead:

Sometimes I over obsess.

When I saw the crime scene flag the first thing I thought of "LE is baiting for deer". What I mean by this is the perp is going to see these photos and wonder "what did I leave behind?" If I were LE I'd leave the flags just in case the perp decides to come back and look....and I'd make sure I had my motion sensor cameras set up to snap photos. MOO

 

[Jacie Estes]

edit.

 

[SapphireSteel]

I hate to say this and with all due respect, it sounds like you've already tried and convicted this guy for the cousins' abduction and murders and he's not been named a POI yet that we know of. I didn't think we were allowed to make remarks or accusations like this on WS since LE has not named a POI or suspect yet. Don't get me wrong, you've done a great job finding things about this guy, but from a legal stand point I would think we'd have to be careful not to actually accuse him.

I've kept quiet about this guy because

1. he's not my guy, it's not that type of crime to me;
2. LE have gone through all local RSO's with a fine tooth comb. It's not him.

:cow:

 

[Foxfire]

Let's hope it doesn't take this long to find and convict who did this
http://news.msn.com/us/washington-man-gets-life-for-1957-slaying-of-ill-girl

MNDad, when I read about cold cases being solved after decades, I have mixed feelings. Glad that the victim gets justice and the families, a semblance of closure. Yet sad that the probability of the perp having many more innocent victims over the years is very high..

Due to DNA forensics upgrades & the formation of cold case squads, hardly a week goes by that an unknown predator is identified and brought to justice. How can the FBI NCIC and other statistics be trusted when we really don't know who, or how many predators have been preying on our families and friends over the decades, with exemption or freedom from punishment?

RE: Washington man gets life for 1957 slaying of Ill. girl

Jack McCullough, 73, was convicted in September in one of the oldest unsolved crimes in American history to make it to trial. Judge James Hallock had the option of sentencing McCullough from 14 years in prison to life.

SYCAMORE, Ill. — A former Washington state policeman convicted of kidnapping and murdering a young Illinois girl more than a half century ago was sentenced Monday to life in prison.

Jack McCullough, 73, was convicted in September in one of the oldest unsolved crimes in American history to make it to trial. Judge James Hallock had the option of sentencing McCullough from 14 years in prison to life.

The sentencing took place in Sycamore, the small community where 7-year-old Maria Ridulph was abducted and killed in December of 1957

 

[Dr. Know?]

I keep any RSO open to this crime. Only because I don't think other county's RSO's were checked out before they found the girls in Bremer. One of the first things the investigators did per MSM was to check out RSO's in Bremer & Meth connections and might still be doing that for all we know. Finding the girls in a different county meant to check a whole new batch of them out. They have to rule them out to move past them. I'm waiting for the news that they are cleared. Whoever it is probably hasn't ever been caught, yet...

I haven't heard of the bodies (hard to type) being released to their parents, that is sad and worries me.

jmo

 

[Snowbunny]

I've kept quiet about this guy because

1. he's not my guy, it's not that type of crime to me;
2. LE have gone through all local RSO's with a fine tooth comb. It's not him.

:cow:

I totally agree with you on your take on this guy! My niece is a criminal attorney here in my state and believe it or not her husband is from Waterloo originally and she told me we have to be very careful not to actually come out and accuse anyone. I'm not trying to be snarky in anyway and I hope people realize that.

 

[gngr~snap]

I actually understand the desire of Heather and Drew to hold a celebration of LIFE for Lizzie only. She will forever be linked with Lyric in death. They will always be known as "the cousins who went missing" or the "cousins who were murdered"....etc...Maybe just this one last time, she wants to pay tribute to her daughter, as an individual. And I think she is right to do it. No matter how special Lyric was to Heather...Lizzie was her daughter.

BBM

Hi, kseal07, welcome back.

No, it definitely has not been said that the girls were chained to trees. That's just been some of our speculation in an effort to figure out why the trees were cut down.

At this time, all we know is that Lyric and Lizzie are dead, and their bodies were found at Seven Bridges Wildlife Area. Anything beyond that is just typical WS speculation in lieu of any info from LE.

We did have some delightful wild pig conversations yesterday, so be sure not to miss those.

Glad you're back with us, I remember your posts from earlier on.

Oh my gosh gngr snap you're right. I had forgotten that until you mentioned it. These are older articles but per this one: http://www.examiner.com/article/police-search-for-two-missing-black-hawk-county-children "Drew and Heather work at Johnson's Bakery & Planetary Tree Service"

And this one: http://wcfcourier.com/news/evansdal...cle_94b14cc4-cf32-11e1-9131-001a4bcf887a.html

"The Collins own Planetary Tree Service in Evansdale. M****** S******, who also owns a local tree service with her husband, volunteered to hand out food and drinks on Sunday." (name asterisked out by me)

Yes... there's an association with tree cutting services. Related? Who knows, but good memory.

BBM

I don't know about tree cutting, but Drew Collins owns a tree trimming business. However, I can't believe for one minute that he was involved in this. JMO.

http://www.powermachinery.com/products/rough-terrain-piggyback-lifts.htm


I know that lumber yards use this and they call it a "pig" ironic ???

Wonder if tree cutting services use them too?
N
moo

 

[iamnotagolem]

I've kept quiet about this guy because

1. he's not my guy, it's not that type of crime to me;
2. LE have gone through all local RSO's with a fine tooth comb. It's not him.

:cow:

Thank you button wasn't enough. I really doubt it's an RSO, they are the first to be checked when a child goes missing. I have a friend who is a victim advocate and she says she doesn't ever worry about RSOs, she knows who they are and where they are and how to avoid them, she worries about the ones that haven't been caught yet.

I would sincerely doubt this is the work of an RSO, if it was a sexually motivated crime, I'd pick someone who isn't on the radar yet as a sex offender.

I keep thinking about Austin Sigg, he is 17 years old. Who saw that coming? I have two people in mind for this case based on what we already know. But I have also considered someone home from college for the summer or even a high school boy. The risk is high because there are two girls, but if it was someone young like that they might have known the girls through school or siblings or cousins.

 

[StormyNights]

This is just hitting me hard tonight about these girls for some reason. I guess it was the "Found Deceased" next to their names. It was like a kick to the guts.....brought instant tears to my eyes. For 5 long months, we have talked, kicked theories around, sleuthed the crap outta people.....to see it end like this, right before Christmas, it just all seems surreal. Those poor baby girls, what did they go through? I pray that what ever did happen to them, that it happened fast and that they weren't suffering or in scared for long. I had a dream last night about my own 11 year old DD. She went missing....it was an incredibly scary dream, and I just couldn't imagine living that nightmare everyday for weeks, months, years and sadly, some never get found. Just so scary.....I pray that these beautiful girls get justice with such a fury and vengeance, they won't even know what happened. I pray that God leads LE in the right direction and gives them the strength they need to keep pushing forward, until the person/s responsible are :jail: for LWOP!!!

:moo::moo:

 

[gngr~snap]

BBM
Hi, kseal07, welcome back.

No, it definitely has not been said that the girls were chained to trees. That's just been some of our speculation in an effort to figure out why the trees were cut down.

At this time, all we know is that Lyric and Lizzie are dead, and their bodies were found at Seven Bridges Wildlife Area. Anything beyond that is just typical WS speculation in lieu of any info from LE.

We did have some delightful wild pig conversations yesterday, so be sure not to miss those.

Glad you're back with us, I remember your posts from earlier on.

Oh my gosh gngr snap you're right. I had forgotten that until you mentioned it. These are older articles but per this one: http://www.examiner.com/article/police-search-for-two-missing-black-hawk-county-children "Drew and Heather work at Johnson's Bakery & Planetary Tree Service"

And this one: http://wcfcourier.com/news/evansdal...cle_94b14cc4-cf32-11e1-9131-001a4bcf887a.html

"The Collins own Planetary Tree Service in Evansdale. M****** S******, who also owns a local tree service with her husband, volunteered to hand out food and drinks on Sunday." (name asterisked out by me)

Yes... there's an association with tree cutting services. Related? Who knows, but good memory.

BBM

I don't know about tree cutting, but Drew Collins owns a tree trimming business. However, I can't believe for one minute that he was involved in this. JMO.

http://www.powermachinery.com/products/rough-terrain-piggyback-lifts.htm


View attachment 28486

I know that lumber yards use this and they call it a "pig" ironic ???

Wonder if tree cutting services use them too?
No way am I thinking family .
I am thinking co-worker
moo

 

[georger]

I am amazed at the close to the vest, no leaks and no info yet.
Usually we get tidbits to work with.
JMOO, LE knows or has a good idea on COD & TOD and when the bodies were dumped by now.
So they have reasons for keeping things so quiet.
They are not asking for publics help at all.
Any ideas???

Nothing on the news tonight - very frustrating.

Very! frustrating.

This thread so long impossible to read it all, also.

So am going to stop reading/posting to await something concrete.

 

[nikb]

http://www.powermachinery.com/products/rough-terrain-piggyback-lifts.htm
View attachment 28486

I know that lumber yards use this and they call it a "pig" ironic ???

Wonder if tree cutting services use them too?
N
moo

BBM you've got to be kidding me...

 

[gngr~snap]

BBM you've got to be kidding me...

Nope hubby works at Lowe's they attach to the back of the trucks. They use them to carry dry wall and bricks onto the site...
They are VERY GOOD at maneuvering in off road conditions/ rough terrain.
Moo

 

[Marilynilpa]

I totally agree with you on your take on this guy! My niece is a criminal attorney here in my state and believe it or not her husband is from Waterloo originally and she told me we have to be very careful not to actually come out and accuse anyone. I'm not trying to be snarky in anyway and I hope people realize that.

The mods are always very good at stepping in and telling us if we've gone too far. I believe everything posted here is backed up by public records, i.e., where he lives and works, what his charges were, etc.

If you have concerns about a particular post going over the line, please alert on it and let a moderator know. That's the best way, IMO, for making sure we toe the line.

For the record, I'm not convinced an RSO was involved in the abduction and murder of these two girls. But I think what chelsea6 has uncovered is interesting, to the point where I and others have encouraged her to call it in to LE (which she did).

I do get your point - we need to make sure we don't go overboard and begin hurling about unfounded accusations. Since the moderators haven't intervened yet, I'm assuming that we're on safe ground as long as we post info that is a matter of public record.

 

[Marilynilpa]

O/T but interesting IMO:

Since a canine nose is equipped with some 200 million more olfactory receptors than a human's, scientists are increasingly turning to dogs as field assistants to track and monitor populations of wild species.

Such "conservation dogs" can sniff out creatures as small as a lizard or as large as a gorilla, pinpoint where invasive plants are growing, and even guide marine biologists to fresh whale poop. (See pictures of scat research.) But can a dog smell the past?

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/...haeology-dogs-australia-conservation-canines/

 

[Marilynilpa]

RSO Rules[/B]: It seems there is a legal consideration concerning whether we are allowed to bring information to Websleuths from the actual sex offender registry. [/B]

It is illegal to use the sex offender register information to harass anyone. We would never condone this at Websleuths. It is not illegal (in my opinion) if when a child goes missing or is harmed we look at the sex offenders in the area and post their information, along with maps to show how close they live to the victim. In every case we have local people reading and posting here. Therefore we are within the guidelines using this info for local information. Again, we are not EVER going to even hint at harassing anyone on the sex offenders list. Any posting we do about a sex offender will always be within the law. If any of you have other questions about what you can and can't post please contact a mod and we will do our best to clear things up.

BBM

I thought I'd bump this up since so much discussion has taken place about a certain RSO. I certainly don't want any of us in the naughty chair!

 

[GrainneDhu]

O/T but interesting IMO:

Since a canine nose is equipped with some 200 million more olfactory receptors than a human's, scientists are increasingly turning to dogs as field assistants to track and monitor populations of wild species.

Such "conservation dogs" can sniff out creatures as small as a lizard or as large as a gorilla, pinpoint where invasive plants are growing, and even guide marine biologists to fresh whale poop. (See pictures of scat research.) But can a dog smell the past?

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/...haeology-dogs-australia-conservation-canines/

Usually the big problem in training scenting dogs is finding appropriate samples to train with. Just about any yes/no scent question you can come up with can be answered by a trained dog but in order to do the training, you need samples.

Training dogs on bones that are decades or centuries old can turn into a political football because it can seem disrespectful.

Here's a "no kidding" story. I know a K9 handler who is a woodworker in his spare time. One day he was careless and cut the end of one finger off on his table saw. His wife found it and took it to the hospital with him but it couldn't be reconnected.

She hit him and cracked up laughing when he asked the doctor for his fingertip to be used in training his dog.

The doctor was startled but did give it back to him and he did use it for training.