IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #24

[carbuff]

I don't believe anything was every mentioned as found or seeming out of sorts on Maiden Lane.

My only recollection about it was that many of us, due to its proximity to bikes, its sort of out of the way, un-maintained, road to nowhereness, found it a likely spot for someone to park a vehicle unnoticed by passersby and traffic.

Thanks, that was my memory as well. Just wanted to make sure I wasn't overlooking a detail.

 

[otto]

I haven't assumed Elizabeth would do this the way you're putting it. If a stranger approached them near the house, then that's where they were taken, as far as I can see. That means the bikes were staged later.

I can think of a number of reasons why they might have headed to the lake on their own, either for adventure, to meet a friend, because they didn't take the deadline seriously, because they were racing and thought they could get there and back in time, because they had arranged to meet somebody, etc.

Being told to go there by a stranger doesn't even seem to enter into it, at least in my opinion.

Let's assume that the girls decided to take off for 20-30 minutes. Why didn't they take off right away? Why did they first ride their bikes to the shopping center near the old post office, then loop back, ride past the house, pass the Cornbelt Auction, and decide to go to the Lake on River Forest Road?

 

[otto]

Thanks, that was my memory as well. Just wanted to make sure I wasn't overlooking a detail.

Since we know the girls didn't walk to 7 Bridges Park, they must have been in a vehicle. Since their bikes were near the end of Maiden Lane at the Meyers Lake drainage pipe, the perp must have been at that location. Where would the perp have parked in order to access the drainage pipe area at Meyers Lake?

 

[carbuff]

Let's assume that the girls decided to take off for 20-30 minutes. Why didn't they take off right away? Why did they first ride their bikes to the shopping center near the old post office, then loop back, ride past the house, pass the Cornbelt Auction, and decide to go to the Lake on River Forest Road?

If they said hello to two drug dealers making a drug deal, why would the drug dealers decide to murder them, put their bikes in their vehicles (which may be cars) and stage their bikes. Why would both drug dealers drive to Maiden Lane?That seems like a really big tangent for drug dealers.

Wait, where did the drug dealers come from? I'm sorry, posts are going up faster than I can backtrack to, and I seem to have missed something.

It just sounds like two kids killing time in the summer to me, doing things more or less at random. Checking in with Grandma sounds like such a big deal to us, but since Grandma went ahead and left, and was apparently a bit snippy with her daughters about it ("go find your kids" does not sound seriously worried), it might not have been such a big deal to the girls.

 

[carbuff]

Since we know the girls didn't walk to 7 Bridges Park, they must have been in a vehicle. Since their bikes were near the end of Maiden Lane at the Meyers Lake drainage pipe, the perp must have been at that location. Where would the perp have parked in order to access the drainage pipe area at Meyers Lake?

I'm not arguing that. I just wanted to refresh my memory about whether there was any evidence etc. that was ever made public.

 

[otto]

Yes, but if they found anything, it was never in the press?

Picture 10/19, evidence collection, was taken about 400 feet from Maiden Lane.

"Law enforcement authorities collect possible evidence near Meyers Lake where Lyric Cook-Morrissey, 10, and Elizabeth Collins, 8, disappeared last Friday, Tuesday, July 17, 2012, in Evansdale, Iowa. The girls' bikes were found Friday afternoon near a bike trail at the edge of the lake. (AP Photo/Charlie Neibergall)"

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/...h-collins-update_n_2131739.html#slide=1238303

 

[stillwatersc]

I dont know if these articles have been posted, i just learned of them so i thought i would post. (It may be old news however)

Artzy

WATERLOO, Iowa —
A judge is refusing to allow the mother of one of two slain Iowa girls out of a halfway house so she can plan her daughter's funeral.

The Waterloo-Cedar Falls Courier newspaper reports U.S. District Judge Linda Reade declined Monday to end Misty Morrissey's supervised release 45 days early or allow her to live with her mother.

Morrissey has lived at the Residential Reentry Center in Waterloo since August, and is allowed to leave for work and scheduled events.

Morrissey's attorney says she is unable to devote enough time and attention to planning Lyric's Dec. 29 memorial service while at the center.

http://www.kcci.com/news/central-io...ral/-/9357080/17816934/-/ube20gz/-/index.html

Most people have only 1-2 days to plan a funeral. I think she has plenty of time, even being in the halfway house. Plus there are others to help her.

 

[JaimeInLA]

Wait, where did the drug dealers come from? I'm sorry, posts are going up faster than I can backtrack to, and I seem to have missed something.

It just sounds like two kids killing time in the summer to me, doing things more or less at random. Checking in with Grandma sounds like such a big deal to us, but since Grandma went ahead and left, and was apparently a bit snippy with her daughters about it ("go find your kids" does not sound seriously worried), it might not have been such a big deal to the girls.

The drug dealers were a theory I tossed out because I'm REALLY not feeling a sex offender did this. I was trying to find a way/reason why the girls would be abducted by someone other than a sex offender close to home, and why the bikes would be ditched at the lake.

 

[IOWAFRIEND]

I stumbled upon this site after a search using the name of a person that's been bounced around the area here for a week or two by many and just wanted to add my thoughts. I've known Drew and Heather for a few years now and they are the most generous, caring people you'll ever find. They're the kind of friends you rarely have in life. My mother passed away a few days after the girls went missing. Drew insisted on coming to the celebration of life we had for her even after I told him that I'd understand if he didn't. He insisted on being there and stayed until it was over, as did Heather and the kids. There are a lot of rumors swirling around about a suspect/suspects here the last week or so as I mentioned in my first sentence. I just hope that whomever the person/persons responsible for taking two innocent children are caught and justice is served. I see one other person I know was brought up on this site in a discussion relating to where the girls were found; Mark aka "Guitar Ted". He's a good guy and is someone I've known for years. He's the lead tech at a local bicycle/ski shop. I know that everyone on here wants this to be resolved but it seems at times people are drug into this even though there is no way at all they were involved.

 

[stillwatersc]

Since we know the girls didn't walk to 7 Bridges Park, they must have been in a vehicle. Since their bikes were near the end of Maiden Lane at the Meyers Lake drainage pipe, the perp must have been at that location. Where would the perp have parked in order to access the drainage pipe area at Meyers Lake?

IMO he followed them & called them to his vehicle, never parking.

 

[carbuff]

The drug dealers were a theory I tossed out because I'm REALLY not feeling a sex offender did this. I was trying to find a way/reason why the girls would be abducted by someone other than a sex offender close to home, and why the bikes would be ditched at the lake.

Gotcha. I was just confused there for a minute because I had never really entertained the drug dealers idea, though it's possible I suppose. Nothing to rule it out. H-e-double toothpick, we don't have enough information to rule anything out.

I agree that it doesn't feel like a sex crime.

Early on in Jessica Ridgeway's case, people felt a lot of similarities between the two cases. I have a sinking feeling they could be right...

 

[GrainneDhu]

I've got to go for a while, but can someone refresh my memory as to why the FBI was brought in? Did it have to do with the family situation? I apologize, I cannot remember. BBL.

It's more or less automatic when a child abduction is suspected. I've seen it in several cases where the family was cleared of suspicion very early.

 

[GrainneDhu]

Thank you, Bootsctr

I would think if this is the case - this person would be harder to find as no one would ever think about checking into someone like this.

Also wonder wouldn't the police also be checking stores or street cameras in the area to check what cars or vans that were in the area that day?? I know we seen the one with the girls riding their bikes but maybe one could also show who was also in the area and who took the girls.

We know they were checking surveillance tapes from local businesses because there was the inquiry about the guy in the white van who went into a Casey's to buy gas and a soda. He was cleared but it shows they were checking local tape.

Unfortunately, if this perp is local (as I strongly suspect), seeing his vehicle on cctv won't arouse any suspicions.

 

[GrainneDhu]

The end of the fence goes way past where the lake ends (see below), so tracking to the water via the trail means tracking 400 feet along the trail, into the trees and then doubling back to the water. I'm assuming that 'tracking to the water, where the bikes were', means 10-15 feet from the bikes.

Water near the bikes

I agree that the direct route to the water is the most likely. However, I have this cynical view of the FBI and I'm also aware of the word games they play. If you want to check, I was one of the posters who strongly suspected that "we think they are alive" actually meant "we haven't found any evidence of death" rather than anything significant.

I wouldn't put it past an FBI spokesperson to employ some misdirection by telling the truth but not exactly in the way most people would take it.

 

[GrainneDhu]

Wasn't Lyric's oldest brother going to watch the children when Wilma left for her appointment? Surely the children knew that they all had to be home when Wylma left ... surely the girls knew that they would be in trouble if they took off shortly before Wylma had to leave. Furthermore, if they had a plan to ride to the lake, why didn't they go straight there? Why did they instead ride around the parking lot, then past the house heading in the wrong direction to supposedly go to the lake and then vanish?

No, Lyric's older brother was in Waterloo with his father at that time. Elizabeth's older brother was at home at the time; Drew was home to supervise the kids when Grandma Wylma had to leave.

I have never been able to figure out what "going in the wrong direction" meant when the Collins house was more or less the apex of two different routes to get to the park, one on the eastern side, one on the western side.

As for the time, I think that kids have an elastic sense of time, particularly if they are having fun. I don't think they woke up that morning planning to ride to Meyer's Lake; I think it's more likely they got the idea while riding around the Collins house on their bicycles.

I think it's possible that they had the idea "let's see if we can ride down to the lake and back without Grandma noticing."

I just don't see either Elizabeth or Lyric as little angels who could do no wrong; I see them as a of couple perfectly normal little girls who occasionally got into mischief.

 

[GrainneDhu]

Draining the lake bought the perp time ... at least another week of time ... since the investigation was focused in entirely the wrong location ... simply because the bikes were at the lake. Police had no evidence and nothing to pursue. They were investigating, but it meant check stops around the lake, talking to family and doing whatever they do when they don't have a clue.

BBM

I would say that the bolded is what LE does whenever there is a crime that doesn't have an obvious smoking gun. It doesn't mean they are doing nothing, it means they are going through the steps to gather information.

Just because the media was at the lake doesn't mean that's where the police were concentrating.

I think I'm just going to agree to disagree with you on this point.

 

[GrainneDhu]

BBM. Isn't it possible that both Mr C and Heather are being truthful?

If the family finished their evening meal by 6 pm, and the wee ones went to bed at 8 or 9, that would leave plenty of time for Liz to be out biking and chatting then home in time for ice cream. It takes less than 10 minutes to bike a mile.

It also depends on what time the individual sees as evening. For me, anything between 5 pm and 9 pm is evening. Other people have a different sense of when evening begins and ends.

 

[GrainneDhu]

That was me, speaking from my own childhood experiences and all the places my mother didn't know I was going. And you're right, my friends and I often pulled a ploy like that to get to spend more time together. Sometimes it even worked.

I can also see the "two bored girls in the summer" scenario. What do you want to do? I don't know, what do you want to do? Ride around the block. I don't want to ride around the block again! Then let's go somewhere else. There's nowhere else to go and besides we have to be home for Grandma. I know, we could go see if xxxx is home, and if she is we'll just call from there. Mom won't mind.

I mean, this is a small, safe town we're talking about. Kids get a lot of freedom. The odds of somebody getting hit by lightning twice on the sidewalk in front of the house must have been higher than of two girls getting abducted while riding their bikes around on a lazy summer afternoon.

Statistically, you are absolutely correct. Children being hit by lightning is more common than children being abducted.

In my own childhood, if a ploy worked once we'd try it dozens more times before we finally accepted it wouldn't work again.

I had to laugh at your bored girls in the summer dialog because it sounds like you were eavesdropping on my sister and I when we were that age. <LOL>

 

[Jacie Estes]

With it being so hot that day, another possible lure may have been someone suggesting the girls looked like they needed an ice cream cone and offering to buy it for them and to just follow them to the store.

Would the nearest store for ice cream be Casey's?

IMO

Are there ice cream trucks, the kind with the annoying music, in the town during the summer?

 

[GrainneDhu]

I think what is happening here, a bit, is that we're looking at the fact that Lyric's parents were drug addicts that spent time in jail and who did not have primary care of their daughter. We know that Lyric was being raised by her grandmother. From here, maybe it's easier to think that Lyric was generally unsupervised, or that it was more likely for her to push the boundaries. That may well have been true of Lyric, but Elizabeth was in a completely different situation. She was living with two solid parents and three siblings. She had a normal life, attending church, going on family vacations, enjoying a happy childhood. A major factor that would influence her decisions to behave, or to do the ooposite of what was expected of her, would be her mother's health (I think). There is no reason to think that she would completely misbehave when her mother is at the doctor and her grandmother has to leave soon. I think we might be vulnerable to projecting assumptions about Lyric (based on her parent's history) onto Elizabeth ... but if we don't do that, if we see Elizabeth as a responsible young girl that wanted to make her parents and grandmother happy, there's no reason to assume that she would simply take off for a 30 minute, two mile bike ride without telling anyone what she was doing.

I had a normal childhood until I was 10 (when things when pear-shaped but not due to my parent's fault); my parents were married until my mother died last year and we were a very close, tight knit family. I was a serious, responsible kid and didn't deliberately do anything that I knew I shouldn't do.

But I did sometimes make mistakes about how long I had before it was time for me to come in. I did sometimes lose track of the time when I was having fun. I did sometimes go off to have what I thought of as adventures. My sister and I (14 months apart) did sometimes egg each other on into pushing the envelope a bit.

My view that Elizabeth may have occasionally pushed the envelope a bit has nothing to with assumptions about Lyric or any other child. It is based on my own life experience, which includes seeing that children don't really have much of a time sense until they are 12-14 years old.

And when I see "responsible young girl" applied to an 8 year old, it makes my heart sink. Eight year olds are too young for it to be developmentally healthy for them to be taking responsibility.