IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #24

[joerose]

The uncle did survive the overdose; just want to keep the facts straight.

I totally agree about the drug deal thing. If two kids did see a drug deal going down, would they even recognise it? It isn't like drug dealers hand over huge tubs marked "ILLEGAL DRUGS" in exchange for big bags of money marked "ILLEGAL CASH."

Plus, what would happen if a child witnessed a drug deal? I think most prosecutors would think five or six times before putting a child of 8 or 10 in the witness chair. It's stressful and it leaves not just an avenue for appeal but a gigantic freeway.

And, um, just to set the record straight: drug deals were extremely common in both the 60s and the 70s. Where I went to high school, the school administration made a deal with us students that we could smoke in a certain set of bathrooms on days with foul weather so long as we didn't smoke marijuana in the bathrooms or on the front steps of the school. I'd reveal more but I don't remember it. <snicker>

Wow Grainne! That must have been SOME highschool. Mine didn't allow that!

 

[GrainneDhu]

True, but it's somewhat sad to see people on forums point the finger at people who those of us in the area know have nothing to do with it as if they know something or are involved.

I find it not sad but horrifying.

Fortunately, WS has clamped down quite hard on that speculation.

 

[GrainneDhu]

I dont think they were staged. I think they were quickly dumped. Just put there to get rid of them, and maybe he thought it would divert attention from the true abduction site. He would be right, it did. But like Grainne, I think the true investigating was happening elsewhere, away from the lake. I also truely believe that they have way more evidence than we a ledto believe, and probably waiting for the reports from the autopsies, while they keep a close eye on their SUSPECT(S).

Here's a thought. Since the police/fire station is pretty close to Mr. Cs, I'm wondering if the station itself has security cameras??

Some definitions may be helpful here.

To me, "staging" is anything the perp does that is an attempt to send a message or direct LE in one way or another.

So, as I use it, the above scenario would be staging, since it was an attempt to divert LE away from some other site.

I think it would help to get everyone else's definition of staging as well; want to give it a go?

 

[GrainneDhu]

We have a meth lab guy who moved in across from us in the next building.
Extremely aggressive, arrogant, violent. He informed one neighbor he
should kill him because the neighbor finally called police about the loud
music ... at4:00am every night! Acording to the court transcript (on the
internet) this guy was "in charge of the guns" (shotguns and such)! He
has already informed all the niehgbors thathe is incharge and
"they" (meaning us) are all moving soon! Like living in a time bomb!

So your comments above ring true with me!

And, I note, he's doing what meth addicts do best: run his mouth.

If he were smarter and not a meth addict, he'd figure out some way to get the people he didn't like to move. Sabotage vs verbal threats.

I'm not saying he isn't dangerous because he may well be dangerous. But who is going to be the big, fat number one suspect for anything bad that happens in your area now? He could accomplish the same goal and not paint the target on his own shirt if he had the ability to keep his mouth shut.

 

[Marilynilpa]

Some definitions may be helpful here.

To me, "staging" is anything the perp does that is an attempt to send a message or direct LE in one way or another.

So, as I use it, the above scenario would be staging, since it was an attempt to divert LE away from some other site.

I think it would help to get everyone else's definition of staging as well; want to give it a go?

When I use the word "staging", I mean the placement of the bikes at Meyers Lake by anyone other than Lyric and Lizzie.

If the bikes were staged, it was to direct the focus of LE to the lake as opposed to any other location.

 

[SapphireSteel]

Staging essentially means that the scene was altered after the crime...things were not left where they fell.

Staging will usually occur to distract the investigation, which could be a reason why the Lake was chosen. That's one great big distraction, right there.

 

[GrainneDhu]

Wow Grainne! That must have been SOME highschool. Mine didn't allow that!

A sign of the times, my dear, a sign of the times. It was a Big Ten university town and there were smoke-in protests to legalise marijuana on campus where no one was arrested, despite ample evidence.

Have I mentioned I am only about 5 minutes younger than dirt? I'm so old that I can actually remember when the NRA supported gun control legislation (I kid you not).

 

[georger]

Thanks, I'll have to read the rules closely as I only skimmed over them. This whole ordeal is almost surreal to us.

Because it is IS "surreal ! Its over the top, no way can you prepare for
something like this, not here in the Midwest. It always happens to the
other guy. I know exactly where you are coming from. You have a lot of
support in your feelings .... A LOT OF SUPPORT! I can only pray it is
tangible in some way for you ...

Thanks!

 

[Tucarra]

I wonder too!!:waitasec: We all want justice for these girls, and it's driving us all crazy waiting to hear something from the Police!!! lease:

BBM

Totally agree...

Any sort of indicator from LE as to what to think about would be great...

Otherwise, it's "seemingly" going 'round and 'round for the most part...

But all ideas good...

Not a local...and I'm slam out of ideas at the moment...:banghead:

 

[SapphireSteel]

I was answering the question posed by iamnotagolem: "Who would have guessed there was CCTV on Brovan?"

My reply was that anyone who knew there was an auction house in the strip mall could have guessed, since such businesses are often the target of burglars.

This crime implies to me a high level of criminal sophistication, which in turn implies the offender may have been incarcerated before. Prison is where they learn new criminal skills such as, how to spot the new makes of cctv.

If I am correct, we are definitely not looking at a first time offender, but someone local with a long record and/or current criminal associates, who has been able scope out the route unobserved.

 

[SapphireSteel]

I dont think they were staged. I think they were quickly dumped. Just put there to get rid of them, and maybe he thought it would divert attention from the true abduction site. He would be right, it did. But like Grainne, I think the true investigating was happening elsewhere, away from the lake. I also truely believe that they have way more evidence than we a ledto believe, and probably waiting for the reports from the autopsies, while they keep a close eye on their SUSPECT(S).

Here's a thought. Since the police/fire station is pretty close to Mr. Cs, I'm wondering if the station itself has security cameras??

That is staging.

 

[georger]

And, I note, he's doing what meth addicts do best: run his mouth.

If he were smarter and not a meth addict, he'd figure out some way to get the people he didn't like to move. Sabotage vs verbal threats.

I'm not saying he isn't dangerous because he may well be dangerous. But who is going to be the big, fat number one suspect for anything bad that happens in your area now? He could accomplish the same goal and not paint the target on his own shirt if he had the ability to keep his mouth shut.

Thanks. If you can believe this, the guy actually 'informed' everyone
shortly after he moved in that 'I am not allowed to have guns'. Im
standing there thinking, "Ok - what's this all about!". I wanted to reply:
"well Im not allowed to have a tank or a nuclear bomb either, and Im in
physics". The fellow continued to blather. It became obvious something
was "wrong". I dismissed myself saying I had something to do. Two weeks
later an old loud truck shows up, the guy gets out, and he unloads three
shotguns (quickly) from the bed of the truck and runs inside his building -
seen by all the neighbors. At length people called the police ... but he
was allowed to keep his guns.

Not an easy or welcome or friendly situation -

Life in the neighborhood! Wouldnt you be mine !!?

:banghead:

 

[joerose]

A sign of the times, my dear, a sign of the times. It was a Big Ten university town and there were smoke-in protests to legalise marijuana on campus where no one was arrested, despite ample evidence.

Have I mentioned I am only about 5 minutes younger than dirt? I'm so old that I can actually remember when the NRA supported gun control legislation (I kid you not).

You are great Grainne...thanks.

 

[SapphireSteel]

Thanks, I'll have to read the rules closely as I only skimmed over them. This whole ordeal is almost surreal to us. It's hard to see what Drew, Heather, and the kids (along with other family members and friends) have had to endure over these last five months. I've come to know Drew and his family over the last years after first meeting him when we needed a tree taken down. I was impressed at the quality of work he and his crew did. Then by a chance we both share a love for the same sport and ran into each other one night and have become friends since that time. I'd just be happy if they are able to find and convict whomever is responsible and have justice served. When you see things like this in the media you always say "wow, that's so sad" or something along those lines. We had it happen right here in our own metro area and it's devastating. On a brighter note it's been heartwarming to see how many people have rallied to support the families of both girls. In a way it doesn't surprise me... that's how we are here in Iowa.

Thanks so much for coming on and sharing.

As a close onlooker...what does your gut tell you?

 

[georger]

A sign of the times, my dear, a sign of the times. It was a Big Ten university town and there were smoke-in protests to legalise marijuana on campus where no one was arrested, despite ample evidence.

Have I mentioned I am only about 5 minutes younger than dirt? I'm so old that I can actually remember when the NRA supported gun control legislation (I kid you not).

Madam, I am so old, I actually remember when there were gas lights
onthe wall in my Quakertown, a horse drawn cart brought ice down the
alleys to folks with no refrigerators, and drugs and heroine were
something you heard about in a government film shown to every 6th
grade class, and "joint" was something my in elbows and legs!

They told me when I got here to university I was the greenest thing
they'de ever seen!

I sometimes feel I came from Mars.

 

[Marilynilpa]

This crime implies to me a high level of criminal sophistication, which in turn implies the offender may have been incarcerated before. Prison is where they learn new criminal skills such as, how to spot the new makes of cctv.

If I am correct, we are definitely not looking at a first time offender, but someone local with a long record and/or current criminal associates, who has been able scope out the route unobserved.

But with people having home surveillance cameras, how could a perp know whether or not he had spotted every camera? And some cameras are not obviously located, it would take pretty close scrutiny, IMO, to spot all of them.

And what if he had scoped out his route to avoid cameras, only to find his route was closed due to an accident, or the traffic was backed up due to a stalled car?

I think the perp was seen on camera, but his presence raised no red flags to investigators as he had a logical reason for being in the area - school, work, home, church, etc. JMO

 

[Marilynilpa]

A sign of the times, my dear, a sign of the times. It was a Big Ten university town and there were smoke-in protests to legalise marijuana on campus where no one was arrested, despite ample evidence.

Have I mentioned I am only about 5 minutes younger than dirt? I'm so old that I can actually remember when the NRA supported gun control legislation (I kid you not).

I am also well-aged, like a fine wine.:floorlaugh:

My freshman year in high school was the first year of desegregation, and I clearly recall race riots breaking out in the lunch room. And this was at a supposedly "good" school.

Weed was common, "peace" was our greeting of choice (accompanied, of course, by the two-fingered "V" :rocker, and we mistakenly thought we knew it all.

 

[SapphireSteel]

But with people having home surveillance cameras, how could a perp know whether or not he had spotted every camera? And some cameras are not obviously located, it would take pretty close scrutiny, IMO, to spot all of them.

And what if he had scoped out his route to avoid cameras, only to find his route was closed due to an accident, or the traffic was backed up due to a stalled car?

I think the perp was seen on camera, but his presence raised no red flags to investigators as he had a logical reason for being in the area - school, work, home, church, etc. JMO

I think the perp was seen on camera, almost inevitably, but could well be driving a white van with false plates and tinted windows.

If he went in, snatched, went out, no one would even register him, and if he is caught on cctv, it's brief and useless.

Maybe that's why he selected the Lake too...no cctvs.

 

[SapphireSteel]

I am also well-aged, like a fine wine.:floorlaugh:

My freshman year in high school was the first year of desegregation, and I clearly recall race riots breaking out in the lunch room. And this was at a supposedly "good" school.

Weed was common, "peace" was our greeting of choice (accompanied, of course, by the two-fingered "V" :rocker, and we mistakenly thought we knew it all.

Your generation may not have known it all, but you sure sorted a heck of a lot out for the rest of us.

Thank you to all baby boomers, love from Gen X.

 

[GrainneDhu]

Thanks. If you can believe this, the guy actually 'informed' everyone
shortly after he moved in that 'I am not allowed to have guns'. Im
standing there thinking, "Ok - what's this all about!". I wanted to reply:
"well Im not allowed to have a tank or a nuclear bomb either, and Im in
physics". The fellow continued to blather. It became obvious something
was "wrong". I dismissed myself saying I had something to do. Two weeks
later an old loud truck shows up, the guy gets out, and he unloads three
shotguns (quickly) from the bed of the truck and runs inside his building -
seen by all the neighbors. At length people called the police ... but he
was allowed to keep his guns.

Not an easy or welcome or friendly situation -

Life in the neighborhood! Wouldnt you be mine !!?

:banghead:

Before I moved out into the country, I lived in a university town, medium sized. The gangs from Chicago started moving in and they chose my street to do it. My solution was to co-opt them.

I had help. I had dogs and about a year after the gangstas started moving into more than one house, my oldest German Shepherd was dying of cancer and I knew she had only weeks, maybe even only days. We were sitting out on the front lawn when one of the gangsta boys came up the street and started to make a big deal out of crossing the road to avoid going by us.

That bothered me because my old girl was pure gold and had incredible power over human beings. People would wrap their arms around her and tell me they were terrified of dogs or terrified of German Shepherds while their faces were inches from her considerable teeth. So I hollered out "are you afraid of a 15 year old dog??!!!"

That put the boy on the spot because he couldn't admit to being afraid of an old dog. So he came strutting up and tried a little trash talking, which I ignored. I just started telling him that my dog was originally from Chicago and about her life.

Within 5 minutes, my girl had worked her mojo yet again and he was sitting on the lawn with us all wrapped around her. We had a nice visit.

The next week she died. I saw the same boy on the street and he asked me how she was doing. I told him she had died and he got tears in his eyes. Later that day, he brought me a card and all the guys he was living with had signed it.

And that was all the trouble I ever had with them. I'd invite them in to meet my dogs, give them things to drink and homemade food (it turns out none of those kids knew anything about cooking and they were living off of junk food! no wonder they looked like they were in bad moods). Other people in the neighbourhood were scared of them but I knew they were really just kids.

But see, that was easy because I had my girl and these boys weren't into meth. And they were really, really lonely.

Still, my usual advice for good neighbourly relations may apply: there's very little that cannot be improved by adding a plate full of homemade brownies to it. Seriously. Given without strings, with nothing more than the intention to share one of the better things in life, a plate of homemade brownies can work miracles.

And that man you describe, he is surely in need of a miracle.