IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #24

[GrainneDhu]

BBM

Heather and Drew talked about how Lizzie and Lyric would fuss and fight with each other all day long, but when it was time for Lyric to go home, the girls wanted Lyric to sleep over. They appeared to have a sisterly relationship which, IMO, would include competitive behavior (I can ride faster than you, no you can't, yes I can, well then prove it).

I'm not saying this is what happened, but I certainly wouldn't rule it out based on what Drew and Heather have said of the girls' relationship.

I don't have the link at hand, but I posted it earlier - it was the Ron Steele interview.

Even if Lyric was so much faster on a bicycle that Elizabeth didn't stand a chance, kids that age love to figure out handicapping so that a contest is equal. They were both at that age where figuring out the rules for play can be equally as engrossing as the actual games.

It's really fun to watch quietly from the sidelines as a bunch of 7-10 year olds engage in really complicated negotiations over making up rules, sometimes to the point where they hardly have any time to actually play the game.

Of course, developmentally, the point isn't the game itself, the point is in learning how to negotiate with others. That's one of the drawbacks to organised sports for children in that developmental period; even though they get more actual game playing time in organised sports, they are losing out on learning how to negotiate with their peers.

That's also the same point to a lot of the bickering siblings and close friends of that age engage in. It's not really so much about the issue in contention, it's about figuring out how to get what one wants without pushing it so far that the other party walks off.

It can drive the adults nuts listening to the squabbling but it is an important developmental stage. The important thing is that the children engaged have to be more or less equals, so that one child doesn't start bullying the other.

Fussing and bickering all day followed by requests to stay overnight is a good indicator that they had a strong, healthy, perfectly normal relationship for their age bracket.

 

[roseofsharon]

I think that police believe the perp will be found in one of those groups: friends, family, sexual predators. Drug addicts, meth addicts, meth dealers and drug arrests are not mentioned in that list ... not when the girls were abducted, and not now after the girls were found. That tells me that police are not looking for a drug connection to the abduction.

Add to that (above) the low probability of two-girls being abducted,
presumably together at the same time. Without being seen or heard?

Two girls being abducted has to be on the low side of abduction stats?
One person alone abducting two girls falls where, in the known stats.

All in a relatively short space of time - just gone without any trace or sighting except for the one camera.

It almost sounds as if they pulled into a building or something with their bikes, then if the garage door is lowered behind them, they are trapped.
The perp can deal with two of them one at a time. Apparently all behind
earshot of neighbors and the public.

On the streets on minute - vanished into think air the next. Bikes left the
lake (how does that fit in without anyone or a vehicle being seen?). Is
there a maintenance building at the lake?

just brainstorming this -[/quote]

That's what I am thinking too georger. With this tight time frame, imo the abduction occurred right on Lafayette and with the possibility of two perps, one could have watched the girls while the other quickly took the bikes to the lake.

The perp may have watched the girls on previous occasions while riding their bikes on Brovan and then waited until the opportunity for an abduction seemed safe to do so.

There may have been two perps, but my feeling is that there is only one. Someone whom has a stellar reputation in the Evansdale community, someone no one would ever imagine commiting any kind of crime.

All just imo. (? the previous post)

 

[Mjskit]

I think that one of our local posters, perhaps Ollipop, said that he was not aware of Maiden Lane until this happened, but I think that Wylma did know about it. That suggests to me that some people that have lived in the area for a long time are familiar with the now overgrown road that leads to the drainage pipe area. 7 Bridges Park was once a popular spot with community organized recreational activites for children and adults. After the 270 street bridge collapsed, access was limited, and the park was more or less abandoned by the community.

That looks to me like two locations that were once popular, but are now abandoned ... yet both locations are associated with this abduction/murder. Wouldn't that point to someone local? Local could be Waterloo, Evansdale, Readlyn and surrounding rural areas.

To me it could also point to an older local person.

 

[Mjskit]

BBM

But were they carefully and deliberately staged? Why not keep Lizzie's bike and purse together, if your purpose was to make it appear she and Lyric were just exploring? Why put the bike on one side of the fence and the purse on the other side?

The purse being on the other side of the fence from Lizzie's bike is one reason I believe the bikes were not staged. JMO

It could have been staged to make it look like they drowned. Bikes on path, purse by lake... LE suspected drowning first remember?

 

[Emi]

has there been any sort of DNA on the bikes

 

[Mjskit]

If they did, I think we would've seen them on cctv having another race right back again (you cheated! Do it again! etc).

They appeared to be going one way, in some sort of a hurry.

Like I said, I was a bike kid. I would've had 20 races by 12 pm. I don't think they were playing, is what I mean. They were headed somewhere definite, and apparently, briskly.

:cow:

LE only released a snippet of video which was the last sighting on camera. That does not mean they were not seen many times by that camera or any other.

 

[TxLady2]

Is there even evidence there was a murder? Since no COD has been
issued.

Don't you mean manner of death? There are 3 possibilities: homicide, accident, or natural causes.

It would be unlikely that they died of natural causes that far from home, so the only other alternative is accident. Could it be someone hit them with a vehicle, panicked and then dumped the bodies there?? Possibly, but I doubt it because their bikes were found apparently unharmed.

Am I mistaken or hasn't LE already said that the manner of death was homicide? I thought for sure that was what they said in the presser when they announced they had been found.

 

[Just Pat 22]

I just can't imagine anyone abducting two little girls cousins that would do anything for each other .My own thoughts say to me the perp was parked hiding unnoticed and may have been doing Drugs when the girls showed up at the wrong place at the wrong time and he grabbed them maybe threatening them with a gun .I never felt the Bikes were staged why would a killer bother taking the time? . Grabbed the girls and used them for whatever his purpose quickly killed them and hid them by the Seven Bridge Place . Doe's any one know what cause the 270 one to collapsed why did it collapse ? did the perp weaken it to stop so much traffic in the area ? I think they will get DNA and God willing catch that sick perp and get him off the streets for good .This case has hurt the hearts of many . Makes my heart bleed for what they went through . I was a victim when a child I was lucky I got away .

 

[SapphireSteel]

LE only released a snippet of video which was the last sighting on camera. That does not mean they were not seen many times by that camera or any other.

We know they were only seen once on that camera, because Mr Pahl confirmed it.

As far as other cameras, I wasn't talking about those.

I was talking specifically about the camera directly across the road from Elizabeths home.

 

[JaimeInLA]

Every time I try to figure out where this happened, I come back to the area around the Collin's home.

I've read varying times that the girls first went for a bike ride, so it was somewhere between 11:30 and 12. We know that the girls remained close to home unti 12:15, per the video camera. There are apparently two other sightings that may or may not be valid. One is on Brovan Blvd (in front of the house) at 12:23 and the other is at Gilbert and Elmer between 12:30 and 1 PM.

If the girls were riding bikes near the house for at least 15 minutes, doing exactly what they were allowed to do, why would they suddenly - shortly before they were expected to go home, decide to ride to Meyers Lake, park their bikes at a drainage gate, go through the gate, leave the purse on the ground, and disappear? That just doesn't add up for me. First, if they wanted to take off to the lake, why didn't they do it right away when they started their bike ride - why wait at least 15-23 minutes? Secondly, if they wanted to go to the lake, why were they riding towards River Forest Road when several other roads are safer and faster? Third, if they decided to take off on their bikes knowing that Wylma had to leave for an appointment soon, why would they park their bikes, go through the gate, put down the purse and do anything ... that is, a quick ride to the park and back is one thing, but the bikes/purse give the impression that they were dawdling, exploring, passing the time without concern for the consequences.

Because of the above points, I am inclined to think that they were taken at the corner of Brovan Blvd and River Forest Road and that someone carefully and deliberately staged the bikes and purse based on the assumption that the girls would not be missed for some time ... that when the bikes and purse were found, everyone would assume they were on an afternoon bike ride and happened to stop at that location to explore the area.

Respectfully, I think you have grandma' sighting confused with the video camera. There was no other sighting on Brovan Blvd (that we know of). Grandma last saw the girls at 12:15. The video camera captured them at 12:23. (It was initially reported as 12:15, but then changed when the owner said the time stamp was off.)

 

[otto]

To me it could also point to an older local person.

That's what I've been wondering too. If the Meyers Lake area lost it's popularity because of the highway in the 1980s ... add 30 years ... it might well be someone in their late 40s.

 

[Mjskit]

We know they were only seen once on that camera, because Mr Pahl confirmed it.

As far as other cameras, I wasn't talking about those.

I was talking specifically about the camera directly across the road from Elizabeths home.

BBM I am showing my age then. LOL Could you please link me up?

 

[SapphireSteel]

BBM I am showing my age then. LOL Could you please link me up?

--- A surveillance video showing two bicyclists may be the last glimpse of missing cousins Lyric Cook-Morrissey, 10, and Elizabeth Collins, 8.
The blurry clip, which lasts only a few seconds, shows the figures riding by on Brovan Street away from Meyers Lake.“It looked kind of grainy to me, I mean just zoom they were by the thing and so it’s very hard to really make much out on the thing,” Black Hawk County Chief Deputy Rick Abben said.
They were less than a block from the Collins’ house, where grandmother Wylma Cook was reportedly watching the girls while one of their mothers had an appointment.
“They were the only two people to go by on bikes that day to my knowledge,” said Joe Pahl, who alerted police about the video July 16. “I’ve watched it.”
Pahl is the manager of Cornbelt Auctions, 3520 Lafayette Road, where a 24-hour camera captured the footage from its position behind the building. The time and date stamp — 12:11 p.m. July 13 — fits the police timeline of the case.


http://wcfcourier.com/news/evansdal...cle_c7394e3c-d6a6-11e1-a4f3-0019bb2963f4.html

 

[Sere-nity]

BBM I am showing my age then. LOL Could you please link me up?

“They were the only two people to go by on bikes that day to my knowledge,” said Joe Pahl, who alerted police about the video July 16. “I’ve watched it.”

http://wcfcourier.com/news/evansdale_search/surveillance-video-may-be-last-known-sighting-of-missing-girls/article_c7394e3c-d6a6-11e1-a4f3-0019bb2963f4.html

Now, I don't know anything anyone else does, but one could interpret that two ways.

1. They only were seen on that camera once.

or

2. Bicyclists were captured multiple times and it has been determined that they were the girls each time.

IMO what is also missing from any statement is how many people the camera caught walking, or the number of cars that passed by/stopped.

 

[borndem]

Ha! I think the opposite - that they've got a line up of local methheads trying to tell them their methhead "theories".

I've been working in Fraud Investigations for a damn long time and trust me, a substantial amount of money is enough to make 99.99999% of people blab, whether they know something relevant or not.

It's like a big piece of cheese tempting all the rats. Of course they are going to have a nibble.

It's probably very time consuming for LE because they have to also now figure out whose information is a dead end, and whose has potential...and some of those babblings will have a kernal of something important.

They have been able to do this, according to Sherrif Thomspon. He specifically mentions "some people we've already talked to".

That's a veiled threat, right there. He's directly telling the perp they are on his trail. Yet more confirmation this was the act of a local.

:cow:

Trying to catch up (again)....

What you said above Steel made me think of a conversation I had 10 -- 15 years ago with a retired Chief of Police in Raleigh, NC (pop. ~400K). We were talking about a murder case that had occurred several years prior, and then I asked him something like, "How is it that you are able to solve some cases where there is so little evidence?" And he gave me a two-word answer that I have never forgotten. He simply said, "People talk."

 

[SapphireSteel]

None of it really matters to me now we know where the girls have gone, and that they likely died the same day.

If there was anything very helpful on the tapes, chances are there'd be an arrest by now.

:cow:

 

[Mjskit]

--- A surveillance video showing two bicyclists may be the last glimpse of missing cousins Lyric Cook-Morrissey, 10, and Elizabeth Collins, 8.
The blurry clip, which lasts only a few seconds, shows the figures riding by on Brovan Street away from Meyers Lake.“It looked kind of grainy to me, I mean just zoom they were by the thing and so it’s very hard to really make much out on the thing,” Black Hawk County Chief Deputy Rick Abben said.
They were less than a block from the Collins’ house, where grandmother Wylma Cook was reportedly watching the girls while one of their mothers had an appointment.
“They were the only two people to go by on bikes that day to my knowledge,” said Joe Pahl, who alerted police about the video July 16. “I’ve watched it.”
Pahl is the manager of Cornbelt Auctions, 3520 Lafayette Road, where a 24-hour camera captured the footage from its position behind the building. The time and date stamp — 12:11 p.m. July 13 — fits the police timeline of the case.


http://wcfcourier.com/news/evansdal...cle_c7394e3c-d6a6-11e1-a4f3-0019bb2963f4.html

Thank you for posting the link. However, my age is not showing just yet. Mr. Pahl never said the girls were only seen once during all the hours of video he turned over. I realize the snippet of video was the last time they ere caught on camera. I just am not willing to gamble that it is the only time that day they were on that camera. I wonder how many circles they made around that building and if the 'shadowy figures' are seen conversing, walking, exiting from a vehicle, etc. before the girls were last caught on that camera.

In other words, I wonder what else was on the video. Since it is such poor quality LE may not be able to tell for sure. IMO

 

[Mjskit]

None of it really matters to me now we know where the girls have gone, and that they likely died the same day.

If there was anything very helpful on the tapes, chances are there'd be an arrest by now.

:cow:

True. Sad but so true. Is it possible to somehow clean up the video to make it more clear? Could FBI enhance it using new techniques?

 

[SapphireSteel]

Thank you for posting the link. However, my age is not showing just yet. Mr. Pahl never said the girls were only seen once during all the hours of video he turned over. I realize the snippet of video was the last time they ere caught on camera. I just am not willing to gamble that it is the only time that day they were on that camera. I wonder how many circles they made around that building and if the 'shadowy figures' are seen conversing, walking, exiting from a vehicle, etc. before the girls were last caught on that camera.

In other words, I wonder what else was on the video. Since it is such poor quality LE may not be able to tell for sure. IMO

No, Abben said it.

Quote -

The blurry clip, which lasts only a few seconds, shows the figures riding by on Brovan Street away from Meyers Lake.“It looked kind of grainy to me, I mean just zoom they were by the thing, and so it’s very hard to really make much out on the thing,” Black Hawk County Chief Deputy Rick Abben said.

We already know that they left the house immediately before they were caught on camera.

We know that they never returned to the house.

Abben speaks of a singular event, so quick you can barely see them.

There is only one sighting confirmed by LE on any cctv. The official timeline states the last sighting as being 12.15.

Pahl did not see the girls on it again either - he goes on to say "that's a long way for them to get in 8 minutes" in regards to the Lake. Which we know is the last place they were sighted, or at least their bikes were sighted so this implies they did not bike backwards or forwards, rather in one direction.

As far as other people driving/walking, the link goes on to explain that they analysed hours and hours worth of recordings.

:cow:

 

[Sere-nity]

No, Abben said it.

Quote -

The blurry clip, which lasts only a few seconds, shows the figures riding by on Brovan Street away from Meyers Lake.“It looked kind of grainy to me, I mean just zoom they were by the thing, and so it’s very hard to really make much out on the thing,” Black Hawk County Chief Deputy Rick Abben said.

We already know that they left the house immediately before they were caught on camera.

We know that they never returned to the house.

Abben speaks of a singular event, so quick you can barely see them.

There is only one sighting confirmed by LE on any cctv. The official timeline states the last sighting as being 12.15.

Pahl did not see the girls on it again either - he goes on to say "that's a long way for them to get in 8 minutes" in regards to the Lake. Which we know is the last place they were sighted, or at least their bikes were sighted so this implies they did not bike backwards or forwards, rather in one direction.

As far as other people driving/walking, the link goes on to explain that they analysed hours and hours worth of recordings.

:cow:

Respectfully, none of that confirms it was a singular event. It only confirms that the video is grainy.