IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #24

[SapphireSteel]

True. Sad but so true. Is it possible to somehow clean up the video to make it more clear? Could FBI enhance it using new techniques?

Abben was speaking as an onlooker to the proceedings, so I imagine the FBI just took it all over and let him know only what they needed him to know, just like the rest of us.

The technology the FBI can apply to things like this is simply unbelievable.

If Joe Average knew how much of his life is now recorded electronically somewhere, be it his phone pings, cctvs, receipts from shops, internet key strokes - he would be horrified.

Once the FBI is involved they can analyse the carp out of things in all sorts of ways, including running virtual ongoing and retrospective surveillance and rebuilding a blurred picture into recognisable images.

Whatever technology there is, they can and will use.

I would hate to be the perp right now.

 

[SapphireSteel]

Respectfully, none of that confirms it was a singular event. It only confirms that the video is grainy.

It's enough for me.

The FBI have said many times that the last sighting was by cctv at 12.15, IIRC it is also on their Missing poster.

We know the girls had only just left the house per gramma's times.

Sounds like there was only time for it to be a singular recording, as well as Abben referring to one "zoom, gone" that he couldn't make much of at all.

:dunno:

None of it affects my theory one way or the other anyway...just a detail.

 

[peeples]

this makes me sad for lyric.. posted in one of my facebook groups

I am asking for last minute donations of flowers or baked goods to help with Lyrics memorial service on Saturday. Please set your opinions aside and remember this was the beautiful life of a little girl who isnt spending christmas with her family this year and a family wgo is suffering without her and we want to make her going home celebration as beautiful as Elizabeths for its what she deserves!

 

[GrainneDhu]

has there been any sort of DNA on the bikes

If there was DNA on the bicycles (other than the girls' DNA), LE has not revealed it.

The fact that LE has not done high numbers of DNA swabs suggests to me that they do not have any DNA from an unknown subject.

 

[SapphireSteel]

this makes me sad for lyric.. posted in one of my facebook groups

I am asking for last minute donations of flowers or baked goods to help with Lyrics memorial service on Saturday. Please set your opinions aside and remember this was the beautiful life of a little girl who isnt spending christmas with her family this year and a family wgo is suffering without her and we want to make her going home celebration as beautiful as Elizabeths for its what she deserves!

Woah what does that mean? :what:

I'm sure this wonderful community will pull together and give her the celebration she deserves.

Where is her father in all this? And his family, while Misty's is so shattered?

 

[SapphireSteel]

Trying to catch up (again)....

What you said above Steel made me think of a conversation I had 10 -- 15 years ago with a retired Chief of Police in Raleigh, NC (pop. ~400K). We were talking about a murder case that had occurred several years prior, and then I asked him something like, "How is it that you are able to solve some cases where there is so little evidence?" And he gave me a two-word answer that I have never forgotten. He simply said, "People talk."

That gave me the chills.

He's right. They do. It's almost irresistable. Even a psychopath feels the need to boast.

Also in this case, we have actual confirmation that they are talking. "there are people that they are looking at,” to quote Heather.

This is LE speak for "we know who you are and we're coming to get you", especially if they have informed the family.

I bet there is a nervous person or three or six around town at the moment. Look for folks looking paler than usual and skipping work - if they have a job in the first place that is.

:cow:

 

[borndem]

Also, they eliminated the family straightaway.

They knew by the nature of the evidence that the rarest of all crimes had occurred, a random child abduction by a stranger.

Statistically Jessica had more chance of being hit by lightening than what happened to her. I would argue ARS is a freak of nature too.

bbm (1) - And since there was only one victim in JR's case, it at least cut by half the possible family-related possibilities. It really must be tuff to have two victims, even tho they do have some relatives in common. Were they both the object of attention (or whatever it was), or was it just one & the other little girl was "unlucky"? (please forgive wording) Oh my, what a horrible thought.

bbm (2) He's a freak all right, Steel; good call. He needs to be studied, IMO. Mmpppfff. An aberration, IMHO. And let us hope he's one-of-a-kind.

 

[SapphireSteel]

bbm (1) - And since there was only one victim in JR's case, it at least cut by half the possible family-related possibilities. It really must be tuff to have two victims, even tho they do have some relatives in common. Were they both the object of attention (or whatever it was), or was it just one & the other little girl was "unlucky"? (please forgive wording) Oh my, what a horrible thought.

bbm (2) He's a freak, all right, Steel; good call. He needs to be studied, IMO. Mmpppfff. An aberration, IMHO. And let us hope he's one-of-a-kind.

Unfortunately, the more violent society is getting, the more the right conditions will occur for these freaks to be born and/or bred, so we will see an increase in this sort of nasty, violent, inexplicable crime, by younger and younger people.

I am suspicious of both his parent's drug use, perhaps even before he was born. Damaged DNA comes from somewhere, just as likely to be dear old dad's cocaine habit back in the day, or mum's champagne, as a simple fluke.

Now with meth taking over large parts of America, there will be a whole new generation of "damaged" kids born. It's going to get even scarier, because meth is even scarier.

:cow:

 

[Just Pat 22]

Unfortunately, the more violent society is getting, the more the right conditions will occur for these freaks to be born and/or bred, so we will see an increase in this sort of nasty, violent, inexplicable crime, by younger and younger people.

I am suspicious of both his parent's drug use, perhaps even before he was born. Damaged DNA comes from somewhere, just as likely to be dear old dad's cocaine habit back in the day, or mum's champagne, as a simple fluke.

Now with meth taking over large parts of America, there will be a whole new generation of "damaged" kids born. It's going to get even scarier, because meth is even scarier.

:cow:

You said it as it is and getting worse all the time this should't have happened to these beautiful girl's (our Girls ) W/S he is going to get caught .

 

[Emi]

this case reminds me of Mickey Shunick's similar case, how her bike was staged further away from her body.

 

[borndem]

Unfortunately, the more violent society is getting, the more the right conditions will occur for these freaks to be born and/or bred, so we will see an increase in this sort of nasty, violent, inexplicable crime, by younger and younger people.

I am suspicious of both his parent's drug use, perhaps even before he was born. Damaged DNA comes from somewhere, just as likely to be dear old dad's cocaine habit back in the day, or mum's champagne, as a simple fluke.

Now with meth taking over large parts of America, there will be a whole new generation of "damaged" kids born. It's going to get even scarier, because meth is even scarier.

:cow:

bbm Oh, my, Steel -- talk about chills... Yes, indeed... and think about it, all those hours meth freaks share awake, awake, awake. With nothing to do but listen to music, talk thru their chattering teeth and so forth (or whatevah you wanna call it).... Those poor babies -- what a way to start life. And Mommy doesn't care, and Daddy doesn't care, and I'm not even gonna think about breast-feeding -- and that would be too time-consuming anyway. Even if those babies are intercepted by LE or Children's advocates, etc., right after birth -- and yes, as you say, Steel,what of their little bodies and brains?

We are a fine bucket of fish, aren't we? ("We" being the human race.)

End of mini-rant. :rant:

 

[georger]

There has been no cause of death released yet.

However, logic alone tells me that two young girls in normal health don't just disappear from one town and then their bodies appear 25 miles away without some type of criminal behaviour involved.

I guess I should have been more specific.. sorry. I said: "is there even
evidence of murder?" I mean, could the deaths have been from some
other cause? Accident, drowned in lake, ... something someone involved
might want to hide.

Has LE officially listed this as a multiple homicide?

 

[georger]

Every time I try to figure out where this happened, I come back to the area around the Collin's home.

I've read varying times that the girls first went for a bike ride, so it was somewhere between 11:30 and 12. We know that the girls remained close to home unti 12:15, per the video camera. There are apparently two other sightings that may or may not be valid. One is on Brovan Blvd (in front of the house) at 12:23 and the other is at Gilbert and Elmer between 12:30 and 1 PM.

If the girls were riding bikes near the house for at least 15 minutes, doing exactly what they were allowed to do, why would they suddenly - shortly before they were expected to go home, decide to ride to Meyers Lake, park their bikes at a drainage gate, go through the gate, leave the purse on the ground, and disappear? That just doesn't add up for me. First, if they wanted to take off to the lake, why didn't they do it right away when they started their bike ride - why wait at least 15-23 minutes? Secondly, if they wanted to go to the lake, why were they riding towards River Forest Road when several other roads are safer and faster? Third, if they decided to take off on their bikes knowing that Wylma had to leave for an appointment soon, why would they park their bikes, go through the gate, put down the purse and do anything ... that is, a quick ride to the park and back is one thing, but the bikes/purse give the impression that they were dawdling, exploring, passing the time without concern for the consequences.

Because of the above points, I am inclined to think that they were taken at the corner of Brovan Blvd and River Forest Road and that someone carefully and deliberately staged the bikes and purse based on the assumption that the girls would not be missed for some time ... that when the bikes and purse were found, everyone would assume they were on an afternoon bike ride and happened to stop at that location to explore the area.

Your timeline is valuable and makes sense -

 

[Reverie]

I just got the news about the girls' bodies being found. It is so sad. I had such high hopes for their safe return. ::tears::

I hope LE can solve this case easily. Praying for that and for the families.

Otto, this makes me want to re-ponder that interesting dream you shared.

 

[otto]

Your timeline is valuable and makes sense -

Thanks ... but ... someone pointed out that the 12:23 time may be the video time. I'm not sure if it is, as the time stamp on the video is different ... but ... the timestamp on the video is off by 11 minutes. Police have referred to the video time as 12:15. In any case, the children were near the house at 12:15 and perhaps as late as 12:23.

 

[otto]

I just got the news about the girls' bodies being found. It is so sad. I had such high hopes for their safe return. ::tears::

I hope LE can solve this case easily. Praying for that and for the families.

Otto, this makes me want to re-ponder that interesting dream you shared.

Thanks. I had completely forgotten about it. In my dream, the girls were no longer alive, but they were together. If there's a basketball connection to the perp, I will be very shocked.

 

[Reverie]

Thanks. I had completely forgotten about it. In my dream, the girls were no longer alive, but they were together. If there's a basketball connection to the perp, I will be very shocked.

I won't be.

 

[GrainneDhu]

I guess I should have been more specific.. sorry. I said: "is there even
evidence of murder?" I mean, could the deaths have been from some
other cause? Accident, drowned in lake, ... something someone involved
might want to hide.

Has LE officially listed this as a multiple homicide?

The girls' case hasn't been listed as a homicide yet, so far as I know.

One of the theories that has been kicked around ever since the girls disappeared is that they met with some sort of accident and someone panicked.

It's possible although it is hard to imagine a single accident that would kill both girls. Stranger things have certainly happened.

 

[Dr. Know?]

Every time I try to figure out where this happened, I come back to the area around the Collin's home.

I've read varying times that the girls first went for a bike ride, so it was somewhere between 11:30 and 12. We know that the girls remained close to home unti 12:15, per the video camera. There are apparently two other sightings that may or may not be valid. One is on Brovan Blvd (in front of the house) at 12:23 and the other is at Gilbert and Elmer between 12:30 and 1 PM.

If the girls were riding bikes near the house for at least 15 minutes, doing exactly what they were allowed to do, why would they suddenly - shortly before they were expected to go home, decide to ride to Meyers Lake, park their bikes at a drainage gate, go through the gate, leave the purse on the ground, and disappear? That just doesn't add up for me. First, if they wanted to take off to the lake, why didn't they do it right away when they started their bike ride - why wait at least 15-23 minutes? Secondly, if they wanted to go to the lake, why were they riding towards River Forest Road when several other roads are safer and faster? Third, if they decided to take off on their bikes knowing that Wylma had to leave for an appointment soon, why would they park their bikes, go through the gate, put down the purse and do anything ... that is, a quick ride to the park and back is one thing, but the bikes/purse give the impression that they were dawdling, exploring, passing the time without concern for the consequences.

Because of the above points, I am inclined to think that they were taken at the corner of Brovan Blvd and River Forest Road and that someone carefully and deliberately staged the bikes and purse based on the assumption that the girls would not be missed for some time ... that when the bikes and purse were found, everyone would assume they were on an afternoon bike ride and happened to stop at that location to explore the area.

That road bothers me a lot.

 

[chelsea6]

I just thought... they could have been abducted at the car wash! It's right THERE, on the other side of River Forest Road and a perfect place to abduct anyone as long as there are no vehicles in any of the bays. For 2 girls that simply "vanished", it would explain a lot. Sometimes the doors are shut, mostly open. It is VERY secluded behind it, just a dike and the back of a building on each side if I remember. I'll have to take some pictures next time I'm getting groceries again. ( Maybe the cameras at Pronto across the street from the car wash has cameras that saw something?) :waitasec:

http://linktown.king5.com/biz/clean-car-wash-evansdale/evansdale/ia/50707/2291915