IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #24

[GrainneDhu]

Madam, I am so old, I actually remember when there were gas lights
onthe wall in my Quakertown, a horse drawn cart brought ice down the
alleys to folks with no refrigerators, and drugs and heroine were
something you heard about in a government film shown to every 6th
grade class, and "joint" was something my in elbows and legs!

They told me when I got here to university I was the greenest thing
they'de ever seen!

I sometimes feel I came from Mars.

LOL!

Well, things have changed so much just in my lifetime and I think, overall, for the better. When my parents married, it was actually illegal for them to marry in many states due to miscegenation laws.

A computer was something that took up a whole building. And now, I can use my laptop to communicate with people from all over the world!

 

[GrainneDhu]

But with people having home surveillance cameras, how could a perp know whether or not he had spotted every camera? And some cameras are not obviously located, it would take pretty close scrutiny, IMO, to spot all of them.

And what if he had scoped out his route to avoid cameras, only to find his route was closed due to an accident, or the traffic was backed up due to a stalled car?

I think the perp was seen on camera, but his presence raised no red flags to investigators as he had a logical reason for being in the area - school, work, home, church, etc. JMO

I agree with you. I think there were probably hundreds of vehicles throughout Evansdale that day (it's a suburb of Waterloo, after al) and the perp's car just blended right in.

The logical approach would be to check surveillance tapes for a period of days before and after 13 July and we've had hints that LE did so. But if this guy had a legitimate reason to be in Evansdale frequently, he would be hiding in plain sight.

ETA: this is why I think LE has yet to find any DNA linked to the perpetrator. If they had, they would be swabbing Evansdale residents and noting down whoever refused.

 

[otto]

If we include all of the sighting times, do they fit into a scenario?

 

[otto]

When I use the word "staging", I mean the placement of the bikes at Meyers Lake by anyone other than Lyric and Lizzie.

If the bikes were staged, it was to direct the focus of LE to the lake as opposed to any other location.

I agree. If the girls were abducted a block from their home, and the bikes were staged at Meyers Lake, then it was done for one of three reasons: the perp intended to abduct one child that afternoon and take her to the Maiden Lane area near Meyers Lake (where she may not be noticed for a few weeks - especially if there are no bikes), or he got two and still went to the drainage pipe gate at Meyers Lake, near Maiden Lane, but changed the plan. Instead of murdering one child, he ditched the bikes on the bike path near Maiden Lane (where they were perhaps seen by the cyclist), moving them after seeing the cyclist swerve, and taking the girls to 7 Bridges County Park. He would have had to subdue them quickly. The third possible reason is that he had this figured out to the point of "how to evade detection".

If the girls were abducted at the lake, then I'm shocked that they would ride up and down the street from roughly 11:30/40??? until 12:15, then head towards River Forest Road and South to the park entrance at Elmer and Gilbert - where they then cycled to the other side of the lake, parked their bikes, went through the unlocked gate at the leech infested drainage pipe of the lake, perched on the rocks and vanished. Were these children so oblivious of time that they didn't realize this would be a problem? Were they the sort of children that didn't care what their absence did to their parents? Does Elizabeth sound like the type of child that could be convinced to leave her purse behind? It doesn't make sense to me.

 

[otto]

Some definitions may be helpful here.

To me, "staging" is anything the perp does that is an attempt to send a message or direct LE in one way or another.

So, as I use it, the above scenario would be staging, since it was an attempt to divert LE away from some other site.

I think it would help to get everyone else's definition of staging as well; want to give it a go?

Dumped bikes, staged bikes ... it amounts to the same thing. If the bikes were "staged", then they were placed in a specific location for a specific reason. If they were "dumped", it should be random (like something that is thrown out the window). The fact that the bikes were found leaning against a fence suggests that either the girls placed them there, or they were staged in that position. It's unlikely that they were "dumped" in that position.

Do we know that the bikes were leaning against the fence? No. We do know that they were found in a different location than where the cyclist claims to have swerved around two bikes at 12:23. Abben reported that when he saw the bikes, they were leaning against the fence. We do know that the bikes were at the drainage pipe gate ... next to the leech infested water. Did they really race away from home just before they were expected to stay home so they could sit by the leech infested lake more than a mile away?

 

[Dr. Know?]

Blown margins have stopped me from posting here. I know the subject was addressed earlier but not sure what bugs I need to work out to fix this. Missed that part...darn

 

[georger]

I agree with you. I think there were probably hundreds of vehicles throughout Evansdale that day (it's a suburb of Waterloo, after al) and the perp's car just blended right in.

The logical approach would be to check surveillance tapes for a period of days before and after 13 July and we've had hints that LE did so. But if this guy had a legitimate reason to be in Evansdale frequently, he would be hiding in plain sight.

ETA: this is why I think LE has yet to find any DNA linked to the perpetrator. If they had, they would be swabbing Evansdale residents and noting down whoever refused.

Something occurred to me - probably too late. If they had taken two or
three tracking dogs and given them fresh scent from the girls clothes,
then simply walked the dogs around town, up and down all possible
routes, streets, sidewalks, down alleys and along the fronts and backs of
businesses, to doorways, to vehicles around all sides, etc etc ..
I wonder what the dogs would have found?

Given all the possible iterations for how and where the girls could have
dissappared, maybe a random search response covering as many places
and options as possible with the best tracking tool possible, as quickly as
possible, would have turned up a match? A general sweep using the scent
dogs. Then repeated again a day or two later.

 

[otto]

Thanks, I'll have to read the rules closely as I only skimmed over them. This whole ordeal is almost surreal to us. It's hard to see what Drew, Heather, and the kids (along with other family members and friends) have had to endure over these last five months. I've come to know Drew and his family over the last years after first meeting him when we needed a tree taken down. I was impressed at the quality of work he and his crew did. Then by a chance we both share a love for the same sport and ran into each other one night and have become friends since that time. I'd just be happy if they are able to find and convict whomever is responsible and have justice served. When you see things like this in the media you always say "wow, that's so sad" or something along those lines. We had it happen right here in our own metro area and it's devastating. On a brighter note it's been heartwarming to see how many people have rallied to support the families of both girls. In a way it doesn't surprise me... that's how we are here in Iowa.

Thanks
This is different because it's children, it's random, it's deadly and it's most likely going to happen again if this person is not identified. Some stories in the news are "that's so sad", but this is different.

 

[otto]

Blown margins have stopped me from posting here. I know the subject was addressed earlier but not sure what bugs I need to work out to fix this. Missed that part...darn

Am I blowing margins? If so, I can reduce the image size ... let me know.

I edited the size of the map on the last page ... page 18 ... is it better?

 

[otto]

Something occurred to me - probably too late. If they had taken two or
three tracking dogs and given them fresh scent from the girls clothes,
then simply walked the dogs around town, up and down all possible
routes, streets, sidewalks, down alleys and along the fronts and backs of
businesses, to doorways, to vehicles around all sides, etc etc ..
I wonder what the dogs would have found?

Given all the possible iterations for how and where the girls could have
dissappared, maybe a random search response covering as many places
and options as possible with the best tracking tool possible, as quickly as
possible, would have turned up a match? A general sweep using the scent
dogs. Then repeated again a day or two later.

I wondered why the dogs didn't track from the house, but I suppose that would look a bit like a Family Circus cartoon with the dogs tracking through the shopping center and getting stuck in the neighborhood loop ... I think the dogs would have been barking in circles.

 

[GrainneDhu]

Something occurred to me - probably too late. If they had taken two or
three tracking dogs and given them fresh scent from the girls clothes,
then simply walked the dogs around town, up and down all possible
routes, streets, sidewalks, down alleys and along the fronts and backs of
businesses, to doorways, to vehicles around all sides, etc etc ..
I wonder what the dogs would have found?

Given all the possible iterations for how and where the girls could have
dissappared, maybe a random search response covering as many places
and options as possible with the best tracking tool possible, as quickly as
possible, would have turned up a match? A general sweep using the scent
dogs. Then repeated again a day or two later.

We don't know that this was not done. We do know that the dog tracking was not covered by any news photographers because there weren't any pictures of it; that may well indicate that LE managed to evade the media that morning.

As to searching an entire town randomly, I can see a few problems with it. For one thing, dogs are animals and not machines. Casting for scent is hard work and, particularly in hot humid weather conditions, can cause a tracking dog to overheat. General practice is to take the dog or dogs to the victim's last known location and start from there so that the dog doesn't have to cover any unnecessary ground.

Another problem is that gas vehicles and their exhaust are known for dulling a scent dog's sense of smell. That's why handlers get to a location and then take 15-30 minutes to walk the dog around (carefully avoiding any possible areas of scent) before starting. I don't know of any reputable dog handler who will claim that their dog(s) are 100% reliable on tracking a victim that has been transported by vehicle. There are some flimflam artists out there that make such claims but let's ignore them.

Finally, I think what would have happened had this been done is that the dogs would have given mild alerts all over town. Anywhere the girls went in the previous week or so would have been alerted on. The problem with that is that it wasn't a question of whether the girls had ever been there. The problem was: where were the girls after their last known position?

 

[Marilynilpa]

Here are comments by Heather and Drew regarding the death penalty in Iowa:

“We are going to fight and we are not going to give up,” said Heather Collins, the mother of Elizabeth Collins, one of two cousins presumed kidnapped and slain this summer.

Her husband, Drew Collins, remarked, “To me, it is criminal that we don’t protect our children. If we don’t protect our children, what are we as a society?”

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2012312180033

 

[IOWAFRIEND]

One request... keep Heather and all of the family in your thoughts and prayers for even another reason. I just saw her and this Friday will be her surgery to move the pacemaker/defibrillator. She's one incredibly strong woman to say the least and having her surgery go well will be all many of us want for Christmas. Besides having justice served.

 

[tlcya]

FBI asks for help identifying pedophile - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

OT and apologies but I wanted you guys opinions on this. The above link is a pedo the FBI have asked the public to help locate.

Thanks to this thread and following CVM FB page, I think I might have found their guy. If you get a sec, please compare the FBI video stills with the CVM FB photos at the linked thread and let me know if I am crazy.

I never would have seen this fella if I hadn't been following this case and followed the CVM FB page because of it.

 

[marie-chantal]

Ugh...and he lives in Waterloo.

Good find, tlcox!

 

[Marilynilpa]

FBI asks for help identifying pedophile - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

OT and apologies but I wanted you guys opinions on this. The above link is a pedo the FBI have asked the public to help locate.

Thanks to this thread and following CVM FB page, I think I might have found their guy. If you get a sec, please compare the FBI video stills with the CVM FB photos at the linked thread and let me know if I am crazy.

I never would have seen this fella if I hadn't been following this case and followed the CVM FB page because of it.

I do see a similarity. I'm glad you found this and called it in. Wouldn't it feel great to know you'd taken a pedophile off the street?

 

[Simp]

One request... keep Heather and all of the family in your thoughts and prayers for even another reason. I just saw her and this Friday will be her surgery to move the pacemaker/defibrillator. She's one incredibly strong woman to say the least and having her surgery go well will be all many of us want for Christmas. Besides having justice served.

Welcome to WS!!!! We are happy to have you. Please know that many, many of us here have fallen in love with these 2 precious girls. They have become "our girls". We will be praying for Heather on Friday that her surgery will go very well and that she will have a rapid recovery so that she can spend a nice Christmas with her family. Thank you again for joining us.

 

[tlcya]

big ole honkin :welcome5: to IOWAFRIEND!

Thank you for sharing with us. We are so blessed to have so very many local members/posters following this case with us. your perspective is appreciated.

Know that both these families are very much in my prayers but I will add special emphasis to mine for Heather as she goes through her procedure.

 

[Bootsctr]

FBI asks for help identifying pedophile - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

OT and apologies but I wanted you guys opinions on this. The above link is a pedo the FBI have asked the public to help locate.

Thanks to this thread and following CVM FB page, I think I might have found their guy. If you get a sec, please compare the FBI video stills with the CVM FB photos at the linked thread and let me know if I am crazy.

I never would have seen this fella if I hadn't been following this case and followed the CVM FB page because of it.

Thank you so much for bringing this to our attention. I was able to access his pic from the news article, but I don't FB. Thanks for being on top of this. Hope the FBI gets him ASAP! Yuck, just yuckity, yuck, yuck!

 

[cindersoot]

I agree with you. I think there were probably hundreds of vehicles throughout Evansdale that day (it's a suburb of Waterloo, after al) and the perp's car just blended right in.

The logical approach would be to check surveillance tapes for a period of days before and after 13 July and we've had hints that LE did so. But if this guy had a legitimate reason to be in Evansdale frequently, he would be hiding in plain sight.

ETA: this is why I think LE has yet to find any DNA linked to the perpetrator. If they had, they would be swabbing Evansdale residents and noting down whoever refused.

Lafayette st, is very busy, but the side residential areas are pretty quiet.