IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #24

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Relevance with so few facts in the case is very subjective.

Some folks find Dan's ongoing criminal issues irelevant. Others find it very relevant.

Some folks find the wording of an obituary relevant. Others find it not.

Some folks feel a need to discuss a possible drug debt as motives. Others find that theory without merit.

Some folks feel the abduction was sexually motivated. (ETA and feel driven to discuss area RSOs)

With no facts to go on we are all just feeling our way around a dark room IMO
 
He is on a site called meet me. His post go back 3 weeks. He talks of the girls being found and says one of the girls was his cousin. The court records have a cellular charge and wireless charge. Both closed on 12/19/2012, same day he was charged. I imagine his cell phone was taken & checked? 8 days later he's arrested for 3rd degree sexual assault. hmm

He's also very lonely and wants to get married or at least date.
 
He is on a site called meet me. His post go back 3 weeks. He talks of the girls being found and says one of the girls was his cousin. The court records have a cellular charge and wireless charge. Both closed on 12/19/2012, same day he was charged. I imagine his cell phone was taken & checked? 8 days later he's arrested for 3rd degree sexual assault. hmm

He's also very lonely and wants to get married or at least date.

What's the bet LE found inappropriate communications between him and a younger girl.

I wonder what the difference in Iowa is, between first, second and third degree sexual assault?

:cow:
 
Possibly inapropriate pornographic images sent to a minor.

We honestly cant know why Drew decided to comment on this person.

Perhaps he knows the victim or the family in this matter.

We may know ij the course of time. We may never know.

*shrug*
 
Hello all. Longtime lurker, blue-moon poster here. Not an expert by any means but I will earn my BA in Criminal Justice this Spring. My studies have primarily focused on sex crimes, sexual predators, the psychology of sexual violence, forensic investigation/entomology and victimology. I hope to someday work with the FBI or local state police in finding missing persons and those responsible for the ones not found alive.

I totally agree with the idea that staging the bikes and purse in this way would make it appear as if they had drowned, because that is exactly what everyone first thought. This bought the offender(s) a lot of time by keeping resources focused in what I think is a "red herring" area, an area in the opposite direction from where they were eventually found.

I've also given the location and position of the bodies a lot of thought. First, I'm going to work off of the assumption that they were alive and walking upon entering the area where they were found. I am tempted to discard the idea that they were carried in because they obviously still had their shoes with them if the shoes assisted in identification. Flip flops would fall off too easily en route if she was being carried (don't know which one was supposed to be wearing flip flops), unless they were wrapped in something; however, we have no indication that the bodies were in any way covered, or wrapped. 5 months is long enough for complete skeletalization but not long enough to fully erode the most common coverings of plastic, fabric, or carpet. So, for this reason, I'm thinking they were walked into the area on foot.

Now as to the position of the bodies, from the aerial photos we do know they weren't exactly right next to each other, but instead were more than 20-50ft apart at least (guesstimates based on google maps distance legend, please correct if someone knows exact distance). (Graphic content warning #1): While it is true that vertebrate scavengers can sometimes move bodies, that's usually much larger carnivorous animals like very large mountain lions, but even then most still wouldn't. But smaller animals like coyotes are more likely to tear away and snatch a single limb than move an entire body. So I am thinking they were initially separated on purpose, not separated by scavengers. So, what does this say to you in terms of the number of offenders? (Graphic content warning #2): To me it says there were two, one for each offender to have all for himself. If one person had both girls, he (or she, whatever) would have had to keep them close to him to remain in control, by threat of weapon or by threat of hurting the other girl. Further, what motive would he have for dealing with them separately, many yards apart? To take two girls, the psychopathy is likely such that a single predator would treat them as a pair to remain together. He would have no reason to dispose (sorry for the term) of one and then move to a second location to dispose of the other (even if very close by). My thought is that they were separated because (Graphic content warning #3) they were being assaulted separately so as to afford some semblance of privacy for each offender. If this is the case and there are two offenders, then I think we can eliminate a husband/wife or bf/gf scenario because that type of relationship is usually the type where one partner (usually male) is dominating the female and controls her to participate. In this instance the opposite gender pair acts the same as a single predator because the submissive is only acting as an assistant to the main offender. So the distance between the bodies, IMO, instead points to offenders of the same general status and gender, with one not overtly controlled by the other.

As for motive, the distance between the bodies supports my theory that sexual assault was the primary motivation for the abduction. Had the girls simply been executed for drug debt or snitches' payback, why separate them to execute them? Turn them around and shoot them at the same time and get out of there, leaving as little evidence behind as possible.

As for age of the offenders (if in fact there was a pair), then I'm venturing an educated guess that they are younger males (>16 but <25), perhaps a local pair of brothers or best friends, with hunting or fishing experience and a lack of supervision or strict schedules during the summer months. I think older males would have concealed the bikes rather than leave them and risk leaving prints or DNA. Younger males wouldn't have a place all their own to commit the assaults/murders nor to conceal the bodies or the bikes.

Again, just my opinion.

:thumb: Good Job.

If it is two younger perps, I wouldn't give them credit for staging the bikes. I think they grabbed the girls and just took off.
 
What's the bet LE found inappropriate communications between him and a younger girl.

I wonder what the difference in Iowa is, between first, second and third degree sexual assault?

:cow:

In the link I and others provided upthread about Third Degree Sexual Assault, if you scroll up in the article it discusses First, Second and Third Degree Sexual Assault.
 
He is on a site called meet me. His post go back 3 weeks. He talks of the girls being found and says one of the girls was his cousin. The court records have a cellular charge and wireless charge. Both closed on 12/19/2012, same day he was charged. I imagine his cell phone was taken & checked? 8 days later he's arrested for 3rd degree sexual assault. hmm

He's also very lonely and wants to get married or at least date.



Strangely coincidental :waitasec: His DOB is same day girls were found...
and he is also on some juggaloo site (found by googling) and last date of post there was June 26, 2012.
 
I don't think it's him. It sounds like a girl has accused him of sexual assault. jmo
 
Strangely coincidental :waitasec: His DOB is same day girls were found...
and he is also on some juggaloo site (found by googling) and last date of post there was June 26, 2012.

Doesn't it seems a bit odd that someone would go on a dating site and discuss an abduction and murder ... maybe it's just me, but how would that improve dating options?
 
Possibly inapropriate pornographic images sent to a minor.

We honestly cant know why Drew decided to comment on this person.

Perhaps he knows the victim or the family in this matter.

We may know ij the course of time. We may never know.

*shrug*

He may have commented because he has come to the conclusion that his daughter was kidnapped, sexually assaulted and murdered ... and he has strong feelings towards all sex offenders.

It sounds like it's someone in the extended family ... so you're right, perhaps he did know the victim or family.
 
Strangely coincidental :waitasec: His DOB is same day girls were found...
and he is also on some juggaloo site (found by googling) and last date of post there was June 26, 2012.

With Misty having so many siblings, I suppose it's possible that a cousin had some business on Brovan between 11:30 and 12:30 when the children were cycling ... perhaps that person lured them to the lake. It's equally possible that a stranger told them that there were free boatrides at the other side of the lake.
 
Agreed, but to suggest that scrutiny is a result of some forensic result relating to the bikes is speculation and speculation alone. It is not supported by anything factual. and that was the point I was trying to make. It is a leap that has no basis in fact. MOO

It is far more likely IMO that the scrutiny was the result of the criminal history and not as a direct result of forensic findings (if any) on the bikes.

As pointed out, Heather and Drew had minor criminal history but Misty and Dan's goes beyond minor infractions into some pretty serious charges. THAT difference alone explains for me the different treatment each couple received in terms of police scrutiny after the abduction. Not some maybe/possible speculated upon forensics from bikes.

Also, Drew and Heather never reported on how they were treated. It's possible that they were treated just as harshly as Misty and Dan in the early days of the investigation but simply did not complain about it.

It is also possible that Dan and Misty are more sensitised to LE behaviour because of their pasts. People who have addiction problems usually have coping problems. If they had good coping skills, they would not be turning to drug abuse in lieu of dealing with their emotional responses on their own. So being under pressure by LE (which is what usually happens in every child abduction case) would be much more difficult for Misty and Dan to deal with than it would be for mentally stable people.

I know I worry a heck of a lot more about Misty because she seems so fragile to me. And so alone.
 
Is that a deer head on the front of his shirt? I can't read what it says. Anyone able to make out what the shirt says? Deer hunting? Possibly a Ragbrai shirt? Looks like maybe a beer bottle in the antler...I can't make out what it says...it looks like there is a city, state reference on the last line. I've tried to blow up the picture but I can't make out what it says.

Back in July, I attempted to decipher that simply to satisfy my own curiosity
but to no avail. It is definitely referencing white tail deer hunting, but not sure where? I did discover that for the serious, hard core hunter, there are numerous high tech camps in the midwestern states.
 
Back in July, I attempted to decipher that simply to satisfy my own curiosity
but to no avail. It is definitely referencing white tail deer hunting, but not sure where? I did discover that for the serious, hard core hunter, there are numerous high tech camps in the midwestern states.

I even got my magnifying glass out... and still nothing!! lololol :websleuther:
 
I am wondering if anyone would even notice or pay attention to headlights/taillights. I live in the country off gravel and unless someone drew my attention to the vehicle by calling our house I certainly wouldn't notice a cars taillights 1/2 mile away. :dunno:

That farm house looks like it's quite a ways away from that road...and add 5-7 foot corn, summer foliage and I don't think you'd see anything that goes on at the park.

Our home's windows in our living room face out the back of our house as well as face a fairly busy highway...and honestly I've completely tuned out the headlights that turn off there onto the gravel onto our road and also the gravel road on the other side of the highway.

I know you said you live on gravel as well...do you think you would you notice a vehicle driving down a road mid day across a corn field...or even at night? I just don't think I would...:sick:

Especially when they KNOW it's a road to a park, and probably are used to seeing all sorts of vehicles out there in the summer I'm not sure anyone would pay close enough attention to remember a vehicle being out there...let alone identifying that vehicle 1/2 mile away (and through a corn field).

During the day, I wouldn't take notice of any vehicle so long as it was acting normally, which means travelling at a normal speed and not wobbling all over the road. I have called the sheriff when I saw a pickup fishtailing down the road during the day (drunk driver). There are only five houses on my 1.5 mile road and every single one now has small children or frequent visits by small children and none of us wants to be a participant in some drunk driver's tragedy.

At night, there is one little gravel road that dead ends that is about 0.5 miles from and parallel to my house. The bridge went out and hasn't been replaced, so for a while, local teens were using it as a party spot (there's a creek and a little patch of woods, it's really pretty down there). My office window faces that direction and when I saw lights going down that road, you bet I called the sheriff.

Teens got caught down there often enough in one summer that it has apparently been crossed off the local party list.

I know I probably sound like Gladys Kravitz but if that is what it takes to keep my little patch of earth peaceful and calm, so be it. I'm not calling the sheriff all the time; I think it's been less than 10 times in 8 years and it has almost always led to an arrest.

However, my house is situated on a little knob, so we're up higher than everything around us and we get the panoramic view. We do have more of a view than many houses.

I do know my neighbours are equally vigilant about keeping track of what happens in the area. We're all so different in many ways but we are all agreed that we want to live somewhere safe and peaceful, so we all keep a watch on what happens. The sheriff's deputy was laughing after the drunk driver incident because he said the sheriff's dispatcher got 5 calls within 2 minutes about that truck.

I don't think we're the only rural people who keep an eye on our surroundings (and gossip like crazy <LOL>).
 
Doesn't it seems a bit odd that someone would go on a dating site and discuss an abduction and murder ... maybe it's just me, but how would that improve dating options?

and this person is a supposed relative? (maybe I missread that in an earlier post)
wierd... red flag?
 
Trying to play catchup here. When I first read that the media was not allowed at Lyric's Life Celebration I was a little disappointed because I was hoping to be able to watch her Love Life Celebration as I was able to watch Elizabeth's Love Life Celebration since I don't live around there and have been following this case. Then after thinking about it for a while it dawned on me that maybe LE wants things done differently this time to maybe get different results. When I heard they weren't going to have a Love Life Celebration together in the begin I felt a bit disheartened about the situation but then again maybe LE planned it this way. Either way I'm sure LE will have several cameras rolling, checking out the crowd, whether or not the cameras are in public view. I personally think the public rift between Heather and Misty is a hoax also. LE had to have an excuse to have two Love Life Celebrations and what better way to do it without people question as to why. I should have picked up on it right away beings I've spent several years in the field LE and/or associated with LE most of my life, but I didn't. My son, who is a deputy sheriff, looked at me and said, "Really Mom, it makes perfect sense if you think about it long enough, and LE has created a diversion to pull it off a second time for a second look." I think my son is right!
 
It seems to me that the man in the video believed that the children were found at the bend in the river near the corn field, so quite a bit to the West of where it appeared to be from studying the photos of the area. It seemed that the area where he took the ireporters was too far from the river.

I think that the X on the left is where the man took the ireporters, and the X on the right is where several people have matched the terrain based on the photos.

SBM

That makes sense to me. It seemed to me that they weren't in that little clearing right by the river.

I'm certain he knows where he hunted, just days before Elizabeth and Lyric were found. So he wasn't really anywhere near them.

He did say that he thought it was the area where they were found because that's where the helicopter was but it's very deceptive to figure out just where a helicopter is hovering from any distance away.

Did anyone notice the very typical Iowa brag he made? "My deer dropped right there." In hunting, the goal is to drop the deer right where it was shot. No need to puff up over it, just state the fact and everyone knows he did a good job. He's just a good man and I am glad that Iowa is full of people like him.
 
During the day, I wouldn't take notice of any vehicle so long as it was acting normally, which means travelling at a normal speed and not wobbling all over the road. I have called the sheriff when I saw a pickup fishtailing down the road during the day (drunk driver). There are only five houses on my 1.5 mile road and every single one now has small children or frequent visits by small children and none of us wants to be a participant in some drunk driver's tragedy.

At night, there is one little gravel road that dead ends that is about 0.5 miles from and parallel to my house. The bridge went out and hasn't been replaced, so for a while, local teens were using it as a party spot (there's a creek and a little patch of woods, it's really pretty down there). My office window faces that direction and when I saw lights going down that road, you bet I called the sheriff.

Teens got caught down there often enough in one summer that it has apparently been crossed off the local party list.

I know I probably sound like Gladys Kravitz but if that is what it takes to keep my little patch of earth peaceful and calm, so be it. I'm not calling the sheriff all the time; I think it's been less than 10 times in 8 years and it has almost always led to an arrest.

However, my house is situated on a little knob, so we're up higher than everything around us and we get the panoramic view. We do have more of a view than many houses.

I do know my neighbours are equally vigilant about keeping track of what happens in the area. We're all so different in many ways but we are all agreed that we want to live somewhere safe and peaceful, so we all keep a watch on what happens. The sheriff's deputy was laughing after the drunk driver incident because he said the sheriff's dispatcher got 5 calls within 2 minutes about that truck.

I don't think we're the only rural people who keep an eye on our surroundings (and gossip like crazy <LOL>).

I lived out in the country growing up, and we were the same way. Oh, and I always LOVED Gladys Kravitz!! :great:

For the younger ones on here: (Gladys Kravitz = Nosey neighbor...lol)
http://images.search.yahoo.com/imag...b=13rvbmko0&sigi=129qp0upi&.crumb=sWQnHNFotTF
 
I am not prepared to pick apart the obits looking for slights. The apparent divide between the sisters is very sad, but I don't really wish to dig too deeply into what is a personal family drama that (to our knowledge thus far) has nothing to do with the girls' case.

The obituary is whatever it is.

I agree.

The part that made tears come to my eyes was when it mentioned Lyric playing cards in the afternoon with her grandma. That was just a perfect snapshot moment of a happy, well loved little girl with her grandma.

And then I remembered Grandma Wylma saying that Lyric had her own bedroom but usually slept with her (Grandma). I suddenly realised, OMG what a graphic empty spot there is in that woman's life. I'm sure she would give anything just to have that girl in bed with her one more time.
 
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