IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #24

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Gary Ridgeway, the Green River Killer, doesn't exactly look like a genius either, IMO, but he certainly was capable of planning and executing his crimes, and avoided apprehension for a great many years.

That doesn't mean I think this guy on FB is connected to Lyric and Lizzie in any way.

I don't remember where I read it but I think it may have been in Ann Rule's book Green River Running Red. Gary Ridgways's IQ had been measured at various times in his life and he always scored in the low 80s, which is a couple standard deviations below normal. Not quite at the legal standard for mental retardation (IQ of 70) but close.

One of his jailers during the time he was helping LE find his body dump sites described him as "the idiot savant of serial killing." He also managed to beat two different polygraphs.

I think what helped Gary Ridgway beat the system for so long was that he had no close friends and didn't really seem to want any. He was married and most of the time he was married, he refrained from killing. But when he was alone, he didn't have any real buddies.

So there was no risk of his running his mouth and no one to think "waitaminit, this guy I call my friend is telling me some disturbing stuff, I should call LE."

I will note that this is very different from most meth addicts. If there is anything that meth addicts have in common, it is that meth makes their mouths run.
 
I agree Marilyn.. just thought it was odd out of all the sex abuse cases posted there.. this one he comments on..... honestly first thing that came to mind.. wasn't Lyric and Elizabeth.. but one of their cousins who was being "groomed" by an older guy... do you guys remember that???

Here on WS, we get lots of posts from lurkers who are posting for the first time. It could be that Drew has finally felt familiar enough and comfortable enough on with that FB page to start commenting publicly and this guy just happened to coincide with that.
 
Hello all. Longtime lurker, blue-moon poster here. Not an expert by any means but I will earn my BA in Criminal Justice this Spring. My studies have primarily focused on sex crimes, sexual predators, the psychology of sexual violence, forensic investigation/entomology and victimology. I hope to someday work with the FBI or local state police in finding missing persons and those responsible for the ones not found alive.

I totally agree with the idea that staging the bikes and purse in this way would make it appear as if they had drowned, because that is exactly what everyone first thought. This bought the offender(s) a lot of time by keeping resources focused in what I think is a "red herring" area, an area in the opposite direction from where they were eventually found.

I've also given the location and position of the bodies a lot of thought. First, I'm going to work off of the assumption that they were alive and walking upon entering the area where they were found. I am tempted to discard the idea that they were carried in because they obviously still had their shoes with them if the shoes assisted in identification. Flip flops would fall off too easily en route if she was being carried (don't know which one was supposed to be wearing flip flops), unless they were wrapped in something; however, we have no indication that the bodies were in any way covered, or wrapped. 5 months is long enough for complete skeletalization but not long enough to fully erode the most common coverings of plastic, fabric, or carpet. So, for this reason, I'm thinking they were walked into the area on foot.

Now as to the position of the bodies, from the aerial photos we do know they weren't exactly right next to each other, but instead were more than 20-50ft apart at least (guesstimates based on google maps distance legend, please correct if someone knows exact distance). (Graphic content warning #1): While it is true that vertebrate scavengers can sometimes move bodies, that's usually much larger carnivorous animals like very large mountain lions, but even then most still wouldn't. But smaller animals like coyotes are more likely to tear away and snatch a single limb than move an entire body. So I am thinking they were initially separated on purpose, not separated by scavengers. So, what does this say to you in terms of the number of offenders? (Graphic content warning #2): To me it says there were two, one for each offender to have all for himself. If one person had both girls, he (or she, whatever) would have had to keep them close to him to remain in control, by threat of weapon or by threat of hurting the other girl. Further, what motive would he have for dealing with them separately, many yards apart? To take two girls, the psychopathy is likely such that a single predator would treat them as a pair to remain together. He would have no reason to dispose (sorry for the term) of one and then move to a second location to dispose of the other (even if very close by). My thought is that they were separated because (Graphic content warning #3) they were being assaulted separately so as to afford some semblance of privacy for each offender. If this is the case and there are two offenders, then I think we can eliminate a husband/wife or bf/gf scenario because that type of relationship is usually the type where one partner (usually male) is dominating the female and controls her to participate. In this instance the opposite gender pair acts the same as a single predator because the submissive is only acting as an assistant to the main offender. So the distance between the bodies, IMO, instead points to offenders of the same general status and gender, with one not overtly controlled by the other.

As for motive, the distance between the bodies supports my theory that sexual assault was the primary motivation for the abduction. Had the girls simply been executed for drug debt or snitches' payback, why separate them to execute them? Turn them around and shoot them at the same time and get out of there, leaving as little evidence behind as possible.

As for age of the offenders (if in fact there was a pair), then I'm venturing an educated guess that they are younger males (>16 but <25), perhaps a local pair of brothers or best friends, with hunting or fishing experience and a lack of supervision or strict schedules during the summer months. I think older males would have concealed the bikes rather than leave them and risk leaving prints or DNA. Younger males wouldn't have a place all their own to commit the assaults/murders nor to conceal the bodies or the bikes.

Again, just my opinion.

Great post and I totally agree. Particularly about the age of the perp(s).
 
Doesn't it seems a bit odd that someone would go on a dating site and discuss an abduction and murder ... maybe it's just me, but how would that improve dating options?

Well, that would definitely give a reason as to why he needed a dating site. i assume people on dating sites are presenting their best, most attractive selves and if that's the best he can do, I'd be hitting the "next" button.
 
I lived out in the country growing up, and we were the same way. Oh, and I always LOVED Gladys Kravitz!! :great:

For the younger ones on here: (Gladys Kravitz = Nosey neighbor...lol)
http://images.search.yahoo.com/imag...b=13rvbmko0&sigi=129qp0upi&.crumb=sWQnHNFotTF

Oh my, it didn't even occur to me that people wouldn't know who Gladys Kravitz was! I do feel old. <LOL>

Self policing, keeping an eye out, etc, is just a fact of rural life. Everyone knows you can't wait for a deputy to drive by because it could be that the deputies will never drive by (they don't regularly patrol our road). It doesn't feel frightening, though, it feels... safe. I know my neighbours have an eye out and they know I do, so we're all working together to keep our little part of the earth a good place to be.
 
Trying to play catchup here. When I first read that the media was not allowed at Lyric's Life Celebration I was a little disappointed because I was hoping to be able to watch her Love Life Celebration as I was able to watch Elizabeth's Love Life Celebration since I don't live around there and have been following this case. Then after thinking about it for a while it dawned on me that maybe LE wants things done differently this time to maybe get different results. When I heard they weren't going to have a Love Life Celebration together in the begin I felt a bit disheartened about the situation but then again maybe LE planned it this way. Either way I'm sure LE will have several cameras rolling, checking out the crowd, whether or not the cameras are in public view. I personally think the public rift between Heather and Misty is a hoax also. LE had to have an excuse to have two Love Life Celebrations and what better way to do it without people question as to why. I should have picked up on it right away beings I've spent several years in the field LE and/or associated with LE most of my life, but I didn't. My son, who is a deputy sheriff, looked at me and said, "Really Mom, it makes perfect sense if you think about it long enough, and LE has created a diversion to pull it off a second time for a second look." I think my son is right!

From what I've seen/heard being a friend of Drew and Heather this is certainly not true. There is not the close friendship you'd normally see with siblings, trust me it's no hoax. Drew and Heather have bent over backwards to try and help out through the years and the pattern just repeats itself.

I know there were FBI and DCI agents at Elizabeth's service. I'd also hope that the Cedar Falls Police which were very visible directing traffic before and after the service were somehow noting license plate numbers of every vehicle that came and went. I can't recall if there were any Iowa State Patrol officers helping but don't believe there were.
 
Oh my, it didn't even occur to me that people wouldn't know who Gladys Kravitz was! I do feel old. <LOL>

Self policing, keeping an eye out, etc, is just a fact of rural life. Everyone knows you can't wait for a deputy to drive by because it could be that the deputies will never drive by (they don't regularly patrol our road). It doesn't feel frightening, though, it feels... safe. I know my neighbours have an eye out and they know I do, so we're all working together to keep our little part of the earth a good place to be.

I am Gladys Kravitrz! I am the perpetual window watcher in that if anybody walks, bikes or drives down my street and lingers too long I am plastered to that window, lol
 
The gate was unlocked, but latched.

"The bicycles and a cellphone were the only items abandoned near an unlocked gate on a bike trail, according to Black Hawk County Sheriff’s Captain Rick Abben."

http://www.thedaily.com/article/2012/07/17/071712-news-missing-cousins/

Here are a couple of pictures of where the cyclist swerved around two bikes. Based on the description he gave at the time ... blind curve in the double fenced area, I'm pretty sure that he was to the East of the gate.

meyers_lake_cyclist_path.jpg


meyerslakecyclist.jpg


FYI. The curve there is not a blind curve.
 
I am Gladys Kravitrz! I am the perpetual window watcher in that if anybody walks, bikes or drives down my street and lingers too long I am plastered to that window, lol

I once attended a Neighborhood Watch meeting and was tickled when the policeman giving the presentation said the best crime fighter in any neighborhood is the nosy neighbor.

I, too, am Gladys Kravitz, although I like to think of myself as being curious rather than nosy!
 
Strangely coincidental :waitasec: His DOB is same day girls were found...
and he is also on some juggaloo site (found by googling) and last date of post there was June 26, 2012.

Random thought -- I wonder if he knows the other RSO we were looking at.

It's a very common police tactic to arrest someone on a minor charge when they suspect the person was involved in a major crime. That way they can make sure he doesn't get away while they finish getting test results back, solidifying leads, etc. Or they'll arrest somebody they think is a witness to get him to talk, or if he's covering for someone else, they'll agree to drop charges if he'll give up the alibi. So it wouldn't surprise me if this guy knows something -- but it won't surprise me if he doesn't, either.

I think the guilty party will turn out to be somebody very like this, though. No evidence, just the way the case feels to me. I don't think it had anything to do with the family or their situation.
 
Well, that would definitely give a reason as to why he needed a dating site. i assume people on dating sites are presenting their best, most attractive selves and if that's the best he can do, I'd be hitting the "next" button.


I doubt he'll get much if any jail time if he is found guilty of 3rd degree sexual assault, but what if he has something far more serious to hide?

If he does have any involvement in a crime more serious than 3rd degree sexual assault, he may be getting scared that police are getting close to charging him. Maybe he is anticipating what it would be like to be in prison and decided he needs to get married fast so he can have conjugal visits and someone to send him money for ciggs.

MOO
 
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