IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #25

[Ms Pragmatic]

Yeah i think there has been so many issues across the world with white vans and the fact there was one close to that time not far away, they are just covering all their bases. I think they are on to something thats why there really isnt alot of articles in the last couple weeks. I dont think they need the community help. I think they are waiting for all tests and watching he/she/them. They just are going to get their ducks in a row and Cross their t's and dot their i's. Hopefully somethn breaks soon

And they may not have to make an arrest quickly if the perp(s) are either being closely monitored OR are already cooling their heels in jail for something else. I hope you are right! Fingers crossed!!

 

[georger]

So in the earliest reports Grandma gave the time she last saw them as 11:30 and last night I finally figured out she said that because that is when they left. That is the time she last SPOKE to them. I imagine Wylma keeping an eye out the window seeing the girls ride by every few minutes while she's getting her stuff ready to go, getting the kids lunches made and dishes tidied up.

If the girls were just riding through the parking lots and circling around I'd imagine they'd been by the house every five minutes or so, when she noticed she hadn't seen them in 15-20 minutes she probably started getting concerned.

I wonder if there was one of those digital clocks in the parking lots by the post office that they would use to keep track of how much time they had left?

I still don't think the girls rode their bikes down to the lake. Grandma was alerted to them not riding by within 15 minutes. These girls were reliable, they weren't known to ride off for long periods of time.

IF and a big IF they rode to the lake, I can only see them doing it if a close, trusted family member stopped them in the parking lot and told them to.

I still think the most likely scenario is them being abducted at 12:12 on Brovan. Killer loads girls and bikes into vehicle and drives to the lake, arrives at 12:18 and dumps bikes/purse is gone by 12:25. Drives to seven bridges, kills the girls and is back to town by 2:00.

Sorry, but I cant see someone who has juist abducted anyone then
driving to a public place with the girls, then off loading the bikes and one
girl's purse, all in public, with the girls doing what inside the (van?) ...
its just too many risks ... the perp is compounding his risk many times!

 

[SapphireSteel]

You guys all have offered some food for thought today. I hadn't considered the truck thing, but that makes perfect sense. I don't know why I was thinking van or large SUV, but a truck would be perfect. Great sleuthing day here IMO. And all great posts! That is why I try to keep my mind open because we all have different experiences that shape our lines of thinking. Major thanks to everyone!

The problem with the truck/icecream van theory, has always been -

Nobody saw or heard a thing.

This crime was almost perfect. Two little girls who completely vanish in the middle of the day.

Extras like ice cream vans, noisy trucks, paddle boats, nefarious neighbours who stop halfway through the crime to (somehow, unseen, and why bother) arrange their bikes just so at a Lake some distance away...all possible, but to my mind, very unlikely.

The only thing that really makes sense at all is the girls getting to/very near the lake, and being thrown in a car boot. Or jumping in the car voluntarily.

There is just not time for any other scenario if you are going to take Mr G's sighting of the bikes seriously, as I do.

:cow:

 

[iamnotagolem]

How true! The perp lets slip during an interview that the girls were strangled and is asked how he knows this bit of info. The perp says "I must've read it somewhere". Boom. There's your guy because the police know that info was never released or published anywhere.

Eh, I'm not sold on COD being the ace in the hole for LE. All the perp would have to say is, I assumed they were strangled since no one reported hearing gun shots nearby. I really don't think police are holding out on COD to nail the perp.

Anyone who guesses cause of death and method doesn't make them the killer, I could state as fact that the girls were shot execution style at seven bridges. Doesn't mean I'm the killer, just means that using deductive reasoning I came to that conclusion. Same scenario for any COD unless it was a very unique COD.

 

[hollyblue]

Good point!

I think the fact that the bicycles were not found for an hour (more or less) after the police had been notified indicates that searchers were spread out all over town. If LE had instantly concentrated on Meyer's Lake, the bicycles would have been found within 10 minutes.

What puzzles me with that is LE was surely told by Tammy about the supposed sighting. So why not clear the trail and the park immediately...which I think the family could have done from the get go. She stated LE even drove the cars upon the trail. That would have taken less than a minute to be sure the girls weren't on it. imo

 

[threecrazykids]

According to this article, they didn't seek him out because he drove a white van, they didn't seek him out as a witness. They sought him out as someone who might have information on the abduction. Per this article (I'd quote the parts but my device isn't letting me.)

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/ar...case-Van-driver-speaks-authorities-TV-station

A few things from this:

1. LE has more video tapes than just the CCTV one of the girls (hundreds of hours it sounded like).
2. There is something about this person that drew their attention. Breault says it has nothing to do with the white van. They also state they don't think he's a witness. So what does that leave him? :waitasec:
3. Does LE assume the girls went down River Forest and that is why they are questioning him?? Based on what...just the fact that they were riding "away" from the lake on the snipit of video that was all of 2 seconds long? I pray not...lease: I hope they are looking down every possible route between the Collin's home and that damn lake.

 

[iamnotagolem]

Sporry, but I cants ee someone who has juist abducted anyone then
driving to a public place with the girls, then off loading the bikes and one
girl's purse, all in public, with the girls doing what inside the (van?) ...
its just too many risks ... the perp is compounding his risk many times!

The perp had time to kill the girls then come back and stage the bikes (if we leave out the TG sighting).

How risky would staging the bikes really be? If the girls DID ride to the lake, yet no one saw them along the way or at the lake, then why isn't it possible that someone drove there and dumped the bikes? How long would it really take to dump off a couple of bikes?

The risk of being caught at the lake, the risk of being seen at seven bridges keeps getting mentioned, yet the perp did get away with it.

 

[georger]

http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/serial_killers/weird/kids2/index_1.html

this is just an article about "Kids killing kids"

I tend to lean this way in my thinking. It seems to me the girls set their stuff down to play. I know when I was that age I was NOT worried about my purse like I would be now as an adult. Now I know the girls were found far enough away that a 14 year old boy most likely didn't drag them there, but maybe lure??? (although w/ no sightings from the bikes to the place of bodies that is unlikely) Or a child old enough to have access to atv, etc. Just my thoughts

I hope LE has some good ideas and this comes to an end soon!

Just brainstorming: cold the perp(s) have a young companion to lure
young victims ?

 

[Ms Pragmatic]

Eh, I'm not sold on COD being the ace in the hole for LE. All the perp would have to say is, I assumed they were strangled since no one reported hearing gun shots nearby. I really don't think police are holding out on COD to nail the perp.

Anyone who guesses cause of death and method doesn't make them the killer, I could state as fact that the girls were shot execution style at seven bridges. Doesn't mean I'm the killer, just means that using deductive reasoning I came to that conclusion. Same scenario for any COD unless it was a very unique COD.

I see your point, but its one more thing tying them to the crime. And if there is no DNA, every bit of circumstantial evidence helps. And as GrainneDhu stated, it has worked before. I know if I'm questioned by the police, I am not offering up any theories as to how the girls were murdered.

 

[SapphireSteel]

Staging the bikes has never made sense to me, either, simply because of the proximity to 380/20. I've driven by Meyers Lake many times and it catches my attention every time (even before the abduction). This highway is long, straight, flat and mostly dull. When you see a nice looking lake with some attractive housing, it's hard not to take note. Especially considering road construction last summer (which I don't remember, but I believe those who've said that to be true), traffic was likely moving slower than normal. Where the bikes were found is SO close to the highway - just down an embankment. Motorists could have easily seen the staging occur. I think it would have been far too risky for the perp.

Someone mentioned some of the trees have been cleared out of this area, so maybe this theory wouldn't have been true last July. But each time I've driven by Meyers Lake since the girls went missing, I thought to myself "how could anyone commit a crime in this location without being seen?"

This was discussed in the early days and locals said the location the girls disappeared from is not visible from the highway.

:waitasec:

 

[iamnotagolem]

A few things from this:

1. LE has more video tapes than just the CCTV one of the girls (hundreds of hours it sounded like).
2. There is something about this person that drew their attention. Breault says it has nothing to do with the white van. They also state they don't think he's a witness. So what does that leave him? :waitasec:
3. Does LE assume the girls went down River Forest and that is why they are questioning him?? Based on what...just the fact that they were riding "away" from the lake on the snipit of video that was all of 2 seconds long? I pray not...lease: I hope they are looking down every possible route between the Collin's home and that damn lake.

2. He was originally called a "person of interest" yet that terminology was changed later

3. He was at caseys at 2:00 the girls were last seen on Brovan around 12:15, unless he was walking the van alongside his pet turtle, he couldn't have possibly been on forest river rd while the girls were biking through.

 

[georger]

This scenario popped into my head.

The girls are approached by somebody in the parking lot and asks for directions to Meyers lake. The girls say they don't know but can find out. They happen to see employees of a store and decide to ask them. They tell them. The girls rush back to the area and pass the camera at 12:15. Tell the person waiting. He (or they?) ask if the girls can show them how to get there. They do and they are gone forever.

That is all it would take.

I am still very troubled by this rumored Safeway story ... if the girls
themselves arent sure how to get to the lake how can they help someone
asking for directions following ? I am assuming the girls knew how to get to the lake and the
Safeway story, if true, has been distorted somehow - its already just rumor ?

 

[SapphireSteel]

Just brainstorming: cold the perp(s) have a young companion to lure
young victims ?

I have always wondered if there were 2 younger accomplices involved, who rode the bikes to the lake, dumped them, and strolled away.

 

[chelsea6]

Ok another scenario. See these semis? This garage parking lot may have been the turnaround if the girls had to stay closer to home because of time limitations some days instead of permission to go around the loop like they had to on this day. Lets say they were getting groomed by guys hanging around the garage. The groomer ( child molester) thought they would only molest the girls, but the driver of the truck was a murderer unbeknownst to the molester. The truck driver used the molester as a pawn to get the girls in to take a look at the inside of his truck. the doors were slammed shut and off they all went. I don't know if the molester stayed with the perp, or he was dropped off at park with bikes and the killer took the girls to 7 bridges to kill alone. Curious if there are semi tire trucks at the scene, but they could have switched to car at anytime.

 

[iamnotagolem]

Ok another scenario. See these semis? This garage parking lot may have been the turnaround if they had to stay closer to home because of time limitations some days instead of permission to go around the loop. lets say they were getting groomed by guys hanging around the garage. The groomed thought they would only molest the girls but the driver of the truck was a murderer. he used the monsters as pawns to get the girls in to take a look at the inside of his truck. the doors were slammed shut and off they all went. i don't know if the molester stayed with the perp or he dropped the off at park with bikes and went to 7 bridges to kill alone.

Is there room for a semi to negotiate a parking spot near the lake to drop the bikes? What about at seven bridges? Is there room for a semi to turn around?

 

[Ms Pragmatic]

2. He was originally called a "person of interest" yet that terminology was changed later

3. He was at caseys at 2:00 the girls were last seen on Brovan around 12:15, unless he was walking the van alongside his pet turtle, he couldn't have possibly been on forest river rd while the girls were biking through.

Still doesn't make sense why they chose this man. Why? What would ever lead them to believe he had information to give? It was puzzling then and it still is. Iirc, it was the only time LE asked anyone specific to step forward. What is the connection here? There must be a reason.

 

[threecrazykids]

2. He was originally called a "person of interest" yet that terminology was changed later

3. He was at caseys at 2:00 the girls were last seen on Brovan around 12:15, unless he was walking the van alongside his pet turtle, he couldn't have possibly been on forest river rd while the girls were biking through.

:floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

 

[Just Pat 22]

This is from September 13, 2012

“Today marks two months since the disappearance of 11-year-old Lyric Cook and 9-year-old Elizabeth Collins,” Rick Abben, chief deputy at the Black Hawk County Sheriff’s Office, said in a statement Thursday. “Both girls were last seen on July 13 at 12:15 p.m. riding their bicycles away from the Collins residence in Evansdale. We have information that the girls were seen approximately 12:23 p.m. on Brovan Blvd. and between 12:30 and 1:00 p.m. on Gilbert DR. in the area of Meyers Lake in Evansdale.”

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlin...-missing-2-months-authorities-plead-for-help/

Did you read the article that the Demoines Reg. said they may have a vidio of the vechele used in the abduction of the girls?

 

[iamnotagolem]

Still doesn't make sense why they chose this man. Why? What would ever lead them to believe he had information to give? It was puzzling then and it still is. Iirc, it was the only time LE asked anyone specific to step forward. What is the connection here? There must be a reason.

Maybe he bought something for his kids and it got LEs attention. I believe that is the same Casey's they pulled receipts from. Maybe they wanted to match a purchase to a person? Say he bought two candy bars and two sprites....totally perfect for the girls, or innocently for his two kids.

I assume he has kids for the purpose of this post. Lol

 

[GrainneDhu]

For those who are hoping that DNA will solve this crime, here's a relevant factoid: nationally there are over 400,000 rape kits that have not yet been processed. They are just sitting around in forensic labs.