IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #27

[Tennlyn]

I remember hearing that, but I remember it being something one of the crime reporters said, not something LE stated.

Yea, I think some 'reporter' said it on JVM. Wasn't it was the same guy that suggested the girls might have been in a freezer? Seemed like total sensationalism to me. :moo:

 

[carbuff]

Yea, I think some 'reporter' said it on JVM. Wasn't it was the same guy that suggested the girls might have been in a freezer? Seemed like total sensationalism to me. :moo:

Yes, I think you're right. I am *not* about to go back and listen to *that* again!

 

[georger]

The biker was never confirmed. The runner/jogger was mentioned by FBI spokeswoman, Sandra Breault:

“There was a gentleman who regularly runs around the lake. He didn’t see either one of the girls ... but he did see their bikes and he was able to pinpoint the time of the day that he saw the bikes. Small details like this are really important to the investigation,” she said.


http://wcfcourier.com/news/evansdal...cle_507d9bca-d2b1-11e1-8f0b-0019bb2963f4.html

I think someone in the family or close to the family took the girls.

May even have walked them right out of the park to a car further away,
in plain sight - with the girl's bikes dropped where the person caught up to and
encountered the girls at the park, and maybe gave them hell for being there. Its
a sure fact nobody at the park noticed anything "anyone" was particularly doing
[people are dense that way in today's world] !

My evidence? None. Its just a hunch based on no better answer and statistics
and odds in cases like this.

I don't see LE has the faintest idea who or what happened. I'm not even
convinced LE took this seriously until later in the afternoon perhaps, and maybe
not even then! Maybe not even now!! LE may be waiting for someone in the family
to crack, or Dan going to trial then to jail, et cetera. I don't see any evidence at all
LE is even investigating this affair!

In a world of ambiguity you get 'ambiguity'. The idea of LE not releasing information
to the public for some legal reason is ridiculous - they aren't releasing what does not
exist in the first place just as months passed before the bodies were found by someone
in the public - LE is still "waiting" because it hit a wall early in this case.

 

[Dr. Know?]

I understand your frustrations Georger. I've followed many cases that to this day have no resolution or information provided. The missing child still isn't found. Some are stuck in a suspicion mode of the parents/stepparents/neighbors etc... with no proof for an arrest. I use to cuss Putnam Co., Fl., for not revealing more in Haleigh Cummings case as Caylee's case was so open and documents were released by the hundreds. Not in Haleigh's though. So they put the 5 people in jail for what was a set up drug bust. Florida has a tough drug law with high minimums and maximums, mandatory if convicted too.They couldn't get any of them to talk so that's what happened. Not shabby sentences either unless appeals are granted. Not seeing that either. 25 years for Misty who won't talk and was supposedly the caregiver that night Haleigh disappeared. Ron, Tommy, Hope & Donna all got 15, iirc. Misty was a juvie when Haleigh went missing. She could have gotten less time if she was tried for murder of Haleigh so guess we should be grateful but the burning question is what, who, when, where & how did Haleigh disappear? Where is she?

Druggies off drugs take a long time to reason what they forgot and I'm feeling that might be what we have here. Not that LE is clueless but they aren't dealing with full decks in questionings. This is not directed at family btw, it's directed more at the possible people who could answer the questions of who, what, where, when & how. They are in their own drugged out world possibly? jmo

There are many good people I've read on fb who truely care and have done so much to keep the girl's name in the spotlight, sadly, they aren't posting anymore. Each town has their good and bad. Mine does. That was my view of the bad in Haleigh's case as an example of what LE/Prosecution are dealing with possibly with the girl's case or heck let's hope they are building a case and waiting on some fiber analysist to match up or something? I hope so. I see very high bond amounts for every meth bust in Black Hawk right now. jmo

 

[georger]

I understand your frustrations Georger. I've followed many cases that to this day have no resolution or information provided. The missing child still isn't found. Some are stuck in a suspicion mode of the parents/stepparents/neighbors etc... with no proof for an arrest. I use to cuss Putnam Co., Fl., for not revealing more in Haleigh Cummings case as Caylee's case was so open and documents were released by the hundreds. Not in Haleigh's though. So they put the 5 people in jail for what was a set up drug bust. Florida has a tough drug law with high minimums and maximums, mandatory if convicted too.They couldn't get any of them to talk so that's what happened. Not shabby sentences either unless appeals are granted. Not seeing that either. 25 years for Misty who won't talk and was supposedly the caregiver that night Haleigh disappeared. Ron, Tommy, Hope & Donna all got 15, iirc. Misty was a juvie when Haleigh went missing. She could have gotten less time if she was tried for murder of Haleigh so guess we should be grateful but the burning question is what, who, when, where & how did Haleigh disappear? Where is she?

Druggies off drugs take a long time to reason what they forgot and I'm feeling that might be what we have here. Not that LE is clueless but they aren't dealing with full decks in questionings. This is not directed at family btw, it's directed more at the possible people who could answer the questions of who, what, where, when & how. They are in their own drugged out world possibly? jmo

There are many good people I've read on fb who truely care and have done so much to keep the girl's name in the spotlight, sadly, they aren't posting anymore. Each town has their good and bad. Mine does. That was my view of the bad in Haleigh's case as an example of what LE/Prosecution are dealing with possibly with the girl's case or heck let's hope they are building a case and waiting on some fiber analysist to match up or something? I hope so. I see very high bond amounts for every meth bust in Black Hawk right now. jmo

Thanks Dr Know. I hope this will turn around -

 

[Dr. Know?]

Me too Georger. Me too.

 

[threecrazykids]

I think someone in the family or close to the family took the girls.

May even have walked them right out of the park to a car further away,
in plain sight - with the girl's bikes dropped where the person caught up to and
encountered the girls at the park, and maybe gave them hell for being there. Its
a sure fact nobody at the park noticed anything "anyone" was particularly doing
[people are dense that way in today's world] !

My evidence? None. Its just a hunch based on no better answer and statistics
and odds in cases like this.

I don't see LE has the faintest idea who or what happened. I'm not even
convinced LE took this seriously until later in the afternoon perhaps, and maybe
not even then! Maybe not even now!! LE may be waiting for someone in the family
to crack, or Dan going to trial then to jail, et cetera. I don't see any evidence at all
LE is even investigating this affair!

In a world of ambiguity you get 'ambiguity'. The idea of LE not releasing information
to the public for some legal reason is ridiculous - they aren't releasing what does not
exist in the first place just as months passed before the bodies were found by someone
in the public - LE is still "waiting" because it hit a wall early in this case.

I couldn't agree more. Very sad to say...but I'm with you 100%. There's a fine line between "keeping it to the vest" and "we've got nothing TO release or plead the public to assist".

I do believe LE wants to solve the crime, however I think not only the family's dynamics have gotten in the way, but also some family members criminal backgrounds have muddied the waters as far as being able to determine exactly what has happened to these poor girls.

They are victims of circumstance whether you believe the family is involved, someone known to the family, or even a random perp.

Maybe LE has an idea but just can't prove it. But I'm failing to see it.

The ONLY thing that makes my hinky meter go off, is there doesn't seem to be this urgency to "find this monster"...like their was in the Jessica Ridgeway case. I can't say enough about LE in that investigation. They made it clear they weren't messing around and were on a manhunt. They used the public, got the info out there, and released whatever was necessary to make their arrest.

IMO, I think Iowa LE suffer in their attempt to be the sole heroes in almost all high profile cases. They keep things TOO close to the vest.

Does the lack of urgency to find this killer mean they don't feel this person is a threat to kill again? That these girls WERE their target and there is no threat to the general public?

I just don't feel the urgency from LE that I felt in the JR case.

 

[cindersoot]

In the beginning of the investigation LE was asking around if anyone saw two girls on bikes. Perhaps they should of also asked if anyone noticed two girls walking. As one time they were off their bikes.

 

[cindersoot]

I'm starting to think the reason LE is releasing nothing to the public is because they have their suspect in sight, and waiting for further evidence. I watched a show last night where a 12 yr. old girl went missing in Missouri a few years back. She simply vanished while walking home from a friends house. Small town like Evansdale. Noone saw anything, they said it was like she vanished in thin air. "Sound familiar"? LE had a few suspects, a RSO in the area, a kinky wierdo down the street. But, nobody added up. Finally they went back to their first suspect, the girl that went missings friends stepfather. He was absent the day she went missing, they interviewed him and he said he went fishing that day. Meanwhile, someone discovered the girls body in the woods. Forensics found some evidence on her clothing that 6 months later caused the arrest of the first suspect. The murdered girls friends stepdad. The one that said he was out fishing the day the girl went missing.

The 12 yr. old was visiting her friend, and while walking home accepted a ride with her friends stepdad, he tryed to rape her and ended up killing her and dumping her body in the woods. The reason it seemed she vanished into thin air is because she knew her abducter, trusted him and went quietly with him.

 

[threecrazykids]

I'm starting to think the reason LE is releasing nothing to the public is because they have their suspect in sight, and waiting for further evidence. I watched a show last night where a 12 yr. old girl went missing in Missouri a few years back. She simply vanished while walking home from a friends house. Small town like Evansdale. Noone saw anything, they said it was like she vanished in thin air. "Sound familiar"? LE had a few suspects, a RSO in the area, a kinky wierdo down the street. But, nobody added up. Finally they went back to their first suspect, the girl that went missings friends stepfather. He was absent the day she went missing, they interviewed him and he said he went fishing that day. Meanwhile, someone discovered the girls body in the woods. Forensics found some evidence on her clothing that 6 months later caused the arrest of the first suspect. The murdered girls friends stepdad. The one that said he was out fishing the day the girl went missing.

The 12 yr. old was visiting her friend, and while walking home accepted a ride with her friends stepdad, he tryed to rape her and ended up killing her and dumping her body in the woods. The reason it seemed she vanished into thin air is because she knew her abducter, trusted him and went quietly with him.

Cinder - I really really hope you're right. I want so bad for justice to be served for these two girls. I know I need to be patient, I know.:blushing:

I just really have this gut feeling that these girls went with their killer willingly. Whether or not they BOTH knew this person/people or if only 1 did, and the other went along as well.

I know that there are plenty of cases where 1 perp has controlled 2 people, but I still hold strong that these girls are street smart. I just can't see them BOTH going along and not screaming or fighting etc. if one person tried to take one of them.

But maybe they did?! :furious:

From what we've heard from LE it doesn't sound like there was anyone at all at the lake (from what we've heard) during the actual time they were taken - so for all we know these girls kicked, screamed, bit, hit, etc. and no one was there to save them.:banghead:

 

[Reverie]

I'm starting to think the reason LE is releasing nothing to the public is because they have their suspect in sight, and waiting for further evidence. I watched a show last night where a 12 yr. old girl went missing in Missouri a few years back. She simply vanished while walking home from a friends house. Small town like Evansdale. Noone saw anything, they said it was like she vanished in thin air. "Sound familiar"? LE had a few suspects, a RSO in the area, a kinky wierdo down the street. But, nobody added up. Finally they went back to their first suspect, the girl that went missings friends stepfather. He was absent the day she went missing, they interviewed him and he said he went fishing that day. Meanwhile, someone discovered the girls body in the woods. Forensics found some evidence on her clothing that 6 months later caused the arrest of the first suspect. The murdered girls friends stepdad. The one that said he was out fishing the day the girl went missing.

The 12 yr. old was visiting her friend, and while walking home accepted a ride with her friends stepdad, he tryed to rape her and ended up killing her and dumping her body in the woods. The reason it seemed she vanished into thin air is because she knew her abducter, trusted him and went quietly with him.

Cindersoot, do you recall how much time had passed by the time they found her body? Just curious.

 

[threecrazykids]

Things I just noticed in this transcript (BBM):

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1207/18/ijvm.01.html

VELEZ-MITCHELL: What was his -- what`s his relationship with Lyric? I mean, that`s the key. Because he seems like a very loving father as we hear him. And to his credit, he`s been talking on camera. And police say he`s cooperating.

BROUSSEAU: Absolutely. Dan`s cooperating 100 percent. His relationship with Lyric was a good relationship.

You know, as far as a meth addict goes, I mean, Lyric was aware that her dad was a drug user. So was she allowed to go and hang out with him? And no. Grandma has temporary custody of Dillon and Lyric. And so Lyric was living with Grandma, you know. We wouldn`t allow Lyric to be around that situation.

But Lyric was fully aware of what was going on. Not happy with her dad, no. No child would be. But Dan is cooperating 100 percent.

So does this indicate that Lyric had no visitation whatsoever with Dan? That again makes me question why Misty called Dan when the girls were missing the week before.

SBM:
As a matter of fact, you know, as we were coming down here and came to the lake to look for the girls, he didn`t even know about it. He was at home with his 16-year-old son, Dillon. And the mother, Misty, his wife, she was at work here in Evansdale, Elk Run, which is -- they`re connected. And when Misty got down here to the lake with me and my mother -- Grandma, you know, Misty called Dan immediately. Dan doesn`t have a vehicle. Dan`s mother -- he called his mother. She got off work real quick, went and grabbed Dan and Dillon and brought them down here.

And they started right in on with the rest of us as soon as we were allowed to get to the area where the bicycles were found and the crime tape was released, we were allowed to go in there and just start our own hunt. And that`s what we did. Dan got his four-wheeler and his son, and they went in and just started doing what a dad would do.

How would Dan have gotten a 4 wheeler down there if he didn't have a vehicle? Maybe put it in the back of his mother's vehicle? Or why would he bring it to the lake to search? I have no idea how large the wooded area next to the lake actually is, but it doesn't appear to be large enough for a 4 wheeler to be necessary. There aren't trails back there that we've been made aware of. Wouldn't searching on foot be more efficient? I would think
you'd want to be on foot to ensure you'd be able to see any knocked down branches/weeds...and also be able to search the ground for anything left behind. I didn't realize he'd brought his 4 wheeler down into that area.

See...learn something new every day by going back and re-reading transcripts.:floorlaugh:

 

[Reverie]

Threecrazykids, I get what you're saying. However, I personally think that a 4-wheeler might come in handy, no?

 

[nursebeeme]

:nono:

no discussing or sleuthing the witness (eta: other than what is in media reports..).

 

[threecrazykids]

Threecrazykids, I get what you're saying. However, I personally think that a 4-wheeler might come in handy, no?

Oh I don't doubt it would come in handy depending on how large the area is. But we have 4 wheelers and they are NOT easy to get around in the foliage that we've seen from Ollipop's pictures. Unless there are trails back there, you really can't get through on a 4 wheeler. Unless you're going fairly fast to knock down the brush...which I wouldn't think they'd want to do. :waitasec:

I would think it would be much more efficient to be on foot scouring the covered ground for clues (cigarettes, gloves, ripped or torn shreds of clothing) etc.

The other thing that I must have missed...I thought they had the whole area taped off from the time the bikes were found until the following Monday when we saw TG speaking with the officers. Wasn't the wooded area behind the trail also off limits? I know in the same transcript Tammy states that they put the tape up and were investigating for "about 3 hours".

The scent dogs were brought in either the next day or the day following...and I wouldn't think they'd be letting people just wander back in that area until that area had been completely checked by LE. Let alone go ripping through there on a quad that's going to emit gas/fumes which could compromise a scent trail.:waitasec:

 

[threecrazykids]

So we know there were people confirmed to be at the lake that day. We don't know who or what time but Abben clarified in the presser.

http://wcfcourier.com/twitter-updat...tml_7502e29a-ce9a-11e1-80bf-0019bb2963f4.html

July 24th presser (you have to scroll way back on the twitter updates) it is confirmed that the "paddleboaters came forward after request for people on Meyer's Lake was made".

Abben also says: more people who were at Meyers Lake Friday are coming forward.

So, we know the paddleboaters were there. And if someone KNEW the paddleboaters were there, then there is at least 1 other person who was at the lake.

So, we have at least 2 people there...one of which could possibly be the jogger at the 2:00 sighting (since the FBI stated the jogger was there).

Maybe the jogger is who informed LE they saw the paddleboater?

Hopefully someone saw something...but who knows what time these people were even there in comparison to the girls. If the jogger saw the bikes at 2, that's about 1.75 hrs after they were last seen close to home.:banghead:

 

[carbuff]

For all we know, the owners of the two bikes TG saw are among those people who came forward. If the bikes were identified as belonging to somebody else, that might be why they seem to discount TG's account, which seems to be pretty reliable.

 

[JaimeInLA]

Things I just noticed in this transcript (BBM):

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1207/18/ijvm.01.html

VELEZ-MITCHELL: What was his -- what`s his relationship with Lyric? I mean, that`s the key. Because he seems like a very loving father as we hear him. And to his credit, he`s been talking on camera. And police say he`s cooperating.

BROUSSEAU: Absolutely. Dan`s cooperating 100 percent. His relationship with Lyric was a good relationship.

You know, as far as a meth addict goes, I mean, Lyric was aware that her dad was a drug user. So was she allowed to go and hang out with him? And no. Grandma has temporary custody of Dillon and Lyric. And so Lyric was living with Grandma, you know. We wouldn`t allow Lyric to be around that situation.

But Lyric was fully aware of what was going on. Not happy with her dad, no. No child would be. But Dan is cooperating 100 percent.

So does this indicate that Lyric had no visitation whatsoever with Dan? That again makes me question why Misty called Dan when the girls were missing the week before.

SBM:
As a matter of fact, you know, as we were coming down here and came to the lake to look for the girls, he didn`t even know about it. He was at home with his 16-year-old son, Dillon. And the mother, Misty, his wife, she was at work here in Evansdale, Elk Run, which is -- they`re connected. And when Misty got down here to the lake with me and my mother -- Grandma, you know, Misty called Dan immediately. Dan doesn`t have a vehicle. Dan`s mother -- he called his mother. She got off work real quick, went and grabbed Dan and Dillon and brought them down here.

And they started right in on with the rest of us as soon as we were allowed to get to the area where the bicycles were found and the crime tape was released, we were allowed to go in there and just start our own hunt. And that`s what we did. Dan got his four-wheeler and his son, and they went in and just started doing what a dad would do.

How would Dan have gotten a 4 wheeler down there if he didn't have a vehicle? Maybe put it in the back of his mother's vehicle? Or why would he bring it to the lake to search? I have no idea how large the wooded area next to the lake actually is, but it doesn't appear to be large enough for a 4 wheeler to be necessary. There aren't trails back there that we've been made aware of. Wouldn't searching on foot be more efficient? I would think
you'd want to be on foot to ensure you'd be able to see any knocked down branches/weeds...and also be able to search the ground for anything left behind. I didn't realize he'd brought his 4 wheeler down into that area.

See...learn something new every day by going back and re-reading transcripts.:floorlaugh:

I know the answer to your question, but I'm sure I will get in trouble if I tell you, because it is from Facebook. LOL! So, even though this came from the girlfriend herself, please consider it RUMOR -- Dan had access to his girlfriend's pickup truck. She left it with him every day while she was at work. Just because he doesn't have a license, doesn't mean he didn't drive -- he did.

 

[JaimeInLA]

Oh I don't doubt it would come in handy depending on how large the area is. But we have 4 wheelers and they are NOT easy to get around in the foliage that we've seen from Ollipop's pictures. Unless there are trails back there, you really can't get through on a 4 wheeler. Unless you're going fairly fast to knock down the brush...which I wouldn't think they'd want to do. :waitasec:

I would think it would be much more efficient to be on foot scouring the covered ground for clues (cigarettes, gloves, ripped or torn shreds of clothing) etc.

The other thing that I must have missed...I thought they had the whole area taped off from the time the bikes were found until the following Monday when we saw TG speaking with the officers. Wasn't the wooded area behind the trail also off limits? I know in the same transcript Tammy states that they put the tape up and were investigating for "about 3 hours".

The scent dogs were brought in either the next day or the day following...and I wouldn't think they'd be letting people just wander back in that area until that area had been completely checked by LE. Let alone go ripping through there on a quad that's going to emit gas/fumes which could compromise a scent trail.:waitasec:

It is obvious to me that the investigation was VERY sloppy that first day. They were clearly working under the assumption that the girls had wandered off or drowned in the lake. LE allowed the family to park their cars on the grassy area next to Maiden Lane (destroying any potential tire track evidence). The volunteer firefighters obviously picked up the bikes when they found them, and leaned them on the fence (they were down when TG saw them and up when Abben got there), tampering with the scene and potentially destroying fingerprint and/or touch DNA evidence. They allowed the family and volunteer searchers to wander all over the crime scene. They didn't do a thorough pick-up of the Maiden Lane area (Ollipop found lots of trash there a few days later). They let Aunt Tammy supervise the scent dogs.

I don't know if Dan took his quad down Maiden Lane -- but it wouldn't surprise me.

 

[cindersoot]

Cindersoot, do you recall how much time had passed by the time they found her body? Just curious.

Only 6 days.