IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #27

[iamnotagolem]

It has been discussed a few times that if the girls were targeted that Elizabeth might have been the primary target since the abduction took place in her town near her home. After reading the comments on topix, it made me realize we haven't really looked into connections of Drew and Heather, most of the focus has been Dan and Misty's associates.

I'm not suggesting looking at the family, but at people who they are associated with, people in their neighborhood, in their church, etc.

It seems like there are so many questionable people surrounding this case, not only peripherally but even more directly connected. MOO but this was not random.

 

[threecrazykids]

I agree.

I strongly feel that I would want to know as many details of who/what/when/where/why, if for no other reason, to have a better idea of how to go about protecting my living children. IMO.

Exactly...if these girls were targets there is no reason the rest of their siblings aren't in danger.

The fact that LE isn't continually reminding the rest of the world "we have a killer on the lose, everyone needs to be extremely cautious in protecting your children" indicates this very well could have been "purpose" driven.

 

[Bootsctr]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/19/misty-daniel-morrissey-criminal-records-meth_n_1688083.html

Not sleuthing the family, just thinking the above case certainly might have been the first thing that popped into the family's head and made them think the girls were abducted.

- thankyou Bootsctr!!!!

I modified the original response (which i really enjoyed) to be a shorter post but left the attached article because it brings me back to Elizabeth again at the end of the article. Cindersoot has also posted above about the clothing, purse etc. If it was Waterloo, yes, i would be more inclined to think it was a drug related abduction that ended so tragically. I dont think they were pawns in an attempt to silence anyone. I think it more likely that you would be gunned down on a suburban street & left there if that was the reason. This is has been carefully planned for maximum impact/enjoyment of the perp. I think this person likes pain & suffering. It's got me thinking about looking for links with other disappearances now.[/QUOTE]

You're welcome. I liked the Huffington post article for the same reason.

 

[Bootsctr]

If I were I local and really interested in snooping, I'd probably start attending the same church as the Collins family. :blushing:

(FYI: We had an RSO attending my church for awhile.)

I agree. Knew a couple that went to a church I used to attend. Always thought they were a little "different." They were young. After a while it become public knowledge she could not have kids and they became foster parents. The woman eventually did have a child, a boy. The man was eventually accused of molestation by one of the foster children, a girl. Then another came forward and another and another. This man molested many children over many years under the guise of a foster parent. His son was involved too. He was flown home from Iraq and arrested as soon as the plane landed. Ugh! Disgusting!! I think this man was "helped" because he was a church member and people thought "they go to church" and they seem nice enough. I remember thinking those people are weird.

 

[SapphireSteel]

I know this has been discussed before so I went snooping and found this, I've reposted it because it contains a direct quote from CARP (the FBI's Child Abduction Response Plan).

09-02-2012, 03:25 PM

Per CARP -

From a motivation perspective, nonfamily abductions can be divided into six broadcategories:
•Sexual: Children abducted primarily for the sexual gratification of the offender.
•Killing: Children abducted to be killed by the offender. For some individuals, theact of killing itself may bring arousal and/or gratification
•Nontraditional: Usually very young children abducted predominately by women to fill a perceived void in the offender’s life.
•Ransom:Children abducted to obtain financial benefit from the victim’s family.These are usually solved because the abductor must make some contact with the family
•Profit:Children abducted to obtain financial benefit from a third party. Most for-profit trafficking in children involves buying (not abducting) children from parents or legal guardians. Cases involving some kind of deception (e.g., telling mother her baby died at birth) are less rare.

Summed up nicely for me, thank you FBI.

Under my theory you can rule out sexual, killing, non traditional, and ransom, so what are you left with?

Profit.

Who would, or could, gain from these two particular children going missing? Theremay be a combination of pay offs or "profits" to the offender/s. It may not be necessarily financial gain either, but a benefit in some other way. You could put leverage in this category, for example revenge.:

Of course all my opinion, then as now, but nothing we've found out since had caused me to rethink it. :dunno:
:cow:

 

[Squeeze]

Yes indeed, IMHO, Drama is the perfect word! Makes me wish we could have some of that over here every once in awhile... JK

Well personally, I'm glad this kind of crap isn't posted here. I honestly don't think the the Bertches and Buzz run in the same circles. The Bertches are good people. They do not "Own" the casino. They sold the land that the casino is on, they've had a waterpark for over a decade that they built, and now they're building a campground. I'm sure they arr NOT involved in any pedo ring. That's just disgusting.

And Buzz inherited money and owns a lot of real estate. Rental housing by Hawkeye community college as well as a ton of farmland south of highway 20. In fact, he sold land to the Waterloo schools to build a new school. Its my personal opionion that he offered to donate the land, if they would name the school after his parents. JMO though. He got $600,000 for it, but he certainly doesn't need the money, nor does he have any heirs. I'm not certain what Anderson Enterprises does. I think just manages his rental properties.

 

[Bootsctr]

I had read Elizabeth had a new puppy. I'd like to know where she got the puppy. Did the parents purchase the puppy or did someone give her the puppy?

 

[SapphireSteel]

Well personally, I'm glad this kind of crap isn't posted here. I honestly don't think the the Bertches and Buzz run in the same circles. The Bertches are good people. They do not "Own" the casino. They sold the land that the casino is on, they've had a waterpark for over a decade that they built, and now they're building a campground. I'm sure they arr NOT involved in any pedo ring. That's just disgusting.

And Buzz inherited money and owns a lot of real estate. Rental housing by Hawkeye community college as well as a ton of farmland south of highway 20. In fact, he sold land to the Waterloo schools to build a new school. Its my personal opionion that he offered to donate the land, if they would name the school after his parents. JMO though. He got $600,000 for it, but he (certainly doesn't need the money, nor does he have any heirs. I'm not certain what Anderson Enterprises does. I think just manages his rental properties.

I'm not saying any of these people are anything other than salt of the earth, especially in this case where I think a lot of innocent people are being muddied) BUT -

people always say XYZ was a really good guy, until he up and kills his family or something equally horrific.

You just can't tell who's a genuine good guy, and who's a psycho playing a game. Sometimes even their spouses have no idea of their other side.

:cow:

 

[Bootsctr]

Right now, I think nobody got a "get out of jail free" pass. If that certain nobody was set up because somebody wanted him in jail, that might have worked. He might have gotten a "go to jail, directly to jail, do not pass go, do not collect $200" for the next 40 years.

Here's what I think is odd:
1) This chick's death sentence may be commuted to life: http://www.kcrg.com/news/local/Jury-to-Mull-Womans-Fate-Death-or-Life-in-Prison--187170071.html This was publicized one week before the girls went missing and weeks prior.
2) The day before the girls went missing, this guy (level 3 RSO) started testifying: http://www.icrimewatch.net/offenderdetails.php?OfndrID=1128455&AgencyID= Ironically (sort of to me anyway), this guy supposedly could not have done the murder because he was "fishing" with his brother and friend.
3) The day the girls went missing, this dude:

was the first inmate to successfully break out of the current Black Hawk County Jail.

Ironically enough, the Black Hawk County Jail is currently undergoing some security upgrades. Part of the work exposed access to a fire door, and that's how Mask left the building.

SBM

Mask slipped out undetected through a fire door. Access to the door was open, as contractors were using it to move materials through the building in order to install additional security cameras. Twelve minutes passed before deputies discovered mask was gone--during a scheduled, routine head count. http://www.kwwl.com/story/19014507/black-hawk-county-sheriff-searching-for-a

Could contractors working on the jail have gone into Evansdale? We know what kind of vehicles contractors normally use.

Okay. Take all that and roll it in a Yahtzee cup and see what comes out...

Was someone following the cases of #1 and #2 and concoct a scenario for taking the girls?

 

[threecrazykids]

Right now, I think nobody got a "get out of jail free" pass. If that certain nobody was set up because somebody wanted him in jail, that might have worked. He might have gotten a "go to jail, directly to jail, do not pass go, do not collect $200" for the next 40 years.

Here's what I think is odd:
1) This chick's death sentence may be commuted to life: http://www.kcrg.com/news/local/Jury-to-Mull-Womans-Fate-Death-or-Life-in-Prison--187170071.html This was publicized one week before the girls went missing and weeks prior.
2) The day before the girls went missing, this guy (level 3 RSO) started testifying: http://www.icrimewatch.net/offenderdetails.php?OfndrID=1128455&AgencyID= Ironically (sort of to me anyway), this guy supposedly could not have done the murder because he was "fishing" with his brother and friend.
3) The day the girls went missing, this dude:

SBM


Could contractors working on the jail have gone into Evansdale? We know what kind of vehicles contractors normally use.

Okay. Take all that and roll it in a Yahtzee cup and see what comes out...

Was someone following the cases of #1 and #2 and concoct a scenario for taking the girls?

I think at this point any scenario is possible. LE hopefully knows more than we do, but I've watched enough crime shows to know that just when you think you have an idea of what happened, something gets thrown into the mix that throws it all to the wind.

People's motives aren't always obvious. It can be completely off the wall. If it's completely random I don't think we'll ever find out.

 

[Bootsctr]

I don't think LE is going to jeopardize their investigation into the girls' deaths of when and how by telling these families anything. We have heard how "they" talked to JVM and Nancy Grace and how much is shared by FB. It's probably in everyone's best interest that the Collins say "they don't want to know" right now. If there is a trial, we will know how the girls died and when. If someone tells a jailhouse snitch, we will know. Maybe that is what we are waiting on now.... that and more forensic evidence.

Details of when and how the cousins were killed will remain confidential as the investigation into their deaths continues, Evansdale Police Chief Kent Smock said Wednesday.

“Part of that is, the only people that are going to know this information are the people who are responsible,” Smock said. “At least until somebody is arrested and we’re comfortable with that, that’s information we’ll keep confidential.”
http://www.desmoinesregister.com/ar...-deaths-will-be-kept-confidential?odyssey=tab

 

[threecrazykids]

It has been discussed a few times that if the girls were targeted that Elizabeth might have been the primary target since the abduction took place in her town near her home. After reading the comments on topix, it made me realize we haven't really looked into connections of Drew and Heather, most of the focus has been Dan and Misty's associates.

I'm not suggesting looking at the family, but at people who they are associated with, people in their neighborhood, in their church, etc.

It seems like there are so many questionable people surrounding this case, not only peripherally but even more directly connected. MOO but this was not random.

And oh how convenient for this person who committed this crime for everyone to look into the past of Dan and Misty and get everyone fired up with the drug connection. LE would naturally look into a possible link.

This heinous act happened on Drew and Heather's home turf, not Dan and Misty's. I am certainly not dismissing the fact that Heather and Drew could have the connection.:banghead:

 

[foxbluff]

Off Topic Update – but IMHO, very interesting none the less…

http://cedarfalls.patch.com/article...ls-daily-news-links?ncid=newsltuspatc00000001

Man Found Dead in Car Convicted of Sex Trafficking
Alison GowansJanuary 29, 2013
Daron Jungers, 42, the man found dead in a car in Cedar Falls last week, had been convicted of commercial sex trafficking, the Waterloo-Cedar Falls Courier reported. He had been scheduled to appear in court the following day for a detention hearing. <snipped>

 

[JaimeInLA]

I'm not saying any of these people are anything other than salt of the earth, especially in this case where I think a lot of innocent people are being muddied) BUT -

people always say XYZ was a really good guy, until he up and kills his family or something equally horrific.

You just can't tell who's a genuine good guy, and who's a psycho playing a game. Sometimes even their spouses have no idea of their other side.

:cow:

And THIS is why I have given up on dating.

 

[threecrazykids]

And THIS is why I have given up on dating.

:floorlaugh:

 

[Bootsctr]

And THIS is why I have given up on dating.

:floorlaugh: so true :floorlaugh:

 

[24Roses]

I had read Elizabeth had a new puppy. I'd like to know where she got the puppy. Did the parents purchase the puppy or did someone give her the puppy?

IIRC Heather said in an interview that they purchased the puppy in Kansas & Elizabeth was all excited that they would go all the way down there to get the puppy.

 

[Bootsctr]

Off Topic Update – but IMHO, very interesting none the less…

http://cedarfalls.patch.com/article...ls-daily-news-links?ncid=newsltuspatc00000001

Man Found Dead in Car Convicted of Sex Trafficking
Alison GowansJanuary 29, 2013
Daron Jungers, 42, the man found dead in a car in Cedar Falls last week, had been convicted of commercial sex trafficking, the Waterloo-Cedar Falls Courier reported. He had been scheduled to appear in court the following day for a detention hearing. <snipped>

Thank you. Very, very interesting. Do you have a link with the other 2 names? I thought I saw a link the other day with a different name too.

 

[tlcya]

I agree.

I strongly feel that I would want to know as many details of who/what/when/where/why, if for no other reason, to have a better idea of how to go about protecting my living children. IMO.

Not bashing here, but it is very unusual for parents to request no details...in fact, I don't think I've ever heard of it before? :waitasec:

Most mothers (especially) feel a very strong need to know how their children suffered, so they can "suffer" with the child. It is a way to still care for them and stand by them. This is why families most often go to the trials and sit through horrific testimony...they wish to be there for the victim, even though the victim is no longer alive.

I would rather know, I think. The imagination would create more horror than knowing the truth.

I wonder if Heather and Drew have suspicions of their own, which is why they've asked to be kept uninformed. Maybe they are just struggling to not pick up a gun and even the score.

So incredibly tragic. The entire town must be reeling and suspicious.

:cow:

ETA: I've just checked out some of the comments on topix, OMG....:what:

Still, I'm not surprised. Personally, my hinky meter has been in overdrive since 13 July 2012.

Exactly...if these girls were targets there is no reason the rest of their siblings aren't in danger.

The fact that LE isn't continually reminding the rest of the world "we have a killer on the lose, everyone needs to be extremely cautious in protecting your children" indicates this very well could have been "purpose" driven.

I always find these "if I were in their shoes" kind of lines of thought difficult.

If I were in the Collins' shoes I would want to know EVERYTHING.


But that is because I am a websleuth. My evenings are spent sleuthing supects, POIs, MODs and CODs. s

That is how my mind works. So it follows that I would want to know literally every detail, bit evidence, forensics, etc.

But I am not them. I am a Websleuth, with a keen interest in the behind the scenes of crime scene analysis, investigative process, justice system, etc.

I can never put myself in the victim parents shoes because I know far too much, am far too familiar with crime, particularly those against children, to ever be able to put the blinders back on.

That said, I can't say what I would do if the above were not the case.

 

[Squeeze]

I had read Elizabeth had a new puppy. I'd like to know where she got the puppy. Did the parents purchase the puppy or did someone give her the puppy?

They drove hours to Missouri, I believe. I think it was in one of the video interviews that Heather and Drew did early on in their living room. The one where they referred to their house as a zoo.

Ot Kansas? Just saw 24roses post.