IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #27

[foxbluff]

We know the girls didn't ride there.

But if I were a worried grandmother, trying to imagine where on earth my young granddaughters were... I think one of the possibilities that would go through my mind would be that they set off to see their mama/auntie who was working not so very far away.

I think I would come up with all sorts of scenarios, many of them unrealistic because I wouldn't want to think of darker possibilities.

BBM - and w/all due respect to you and Gma, IMHO, I believe I would have simply picked up my telephone to find the answer to that question... that's just my guess only, of course...

 

[otto]

Catching up, and was hoping Otto posted a map... we were at the corner of Tuscon and 270th street, so the looking somewhat northeast to take the picture. The tree is on the west edge of the park, and my understanding is that the bodies were found to the right of the entrance, which is toward the end of the road.

To the right of the crosses is a Dead End sign. I had it in the pic, but edited it out, as I thought that would be Esther insensitive!!

When the snow is gone, I will get more pictures. Heck, maybe even do a video. Unless Cinder or Chelsea beats me to it!!

I'd be happy to post a map, but I must have missed the earlier post. Are you looking for a map of the park, or the 270 street, both?

 

[Bootsctr]

http://www.missingin.org/article_read.php?idLink=1038645
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


In this article, note... :websleuther:
"bodies"..not bones.
"People" who are responsible
They have details on "cause" of death as well as "other" details.

Very interesting my dear Watson!! The "bodies" have not been released. I think they have more than bones. "People", at least 2 perps. If COD was by gunshot, then we may have actual bullet casings or bullets for forensic testing. I think these "people" will be caught. Thank you chelsea!

 

[chelsea6]

Very interesting my dear Watson!! The "bodies" have not been released. I think they have more than bones. "People", at least 2 perps. If COD was by gunshot, then we may have actual bullet casings or bullets for forensic testing. I think these "people" will be caught. Thank you chelsea!

:thumb: :tyou: Bootsctr... I think they will get caught too!! :behindbar: :behindbar:

I know it's getting long for some of our Websleuthers, but soon all will be revealed. Until then............. :websleuther: :woot: On with our Websleuthing!!!

 

[threecrazykids]

BBM - and w/all due respect to you and Gma, IMHO, I believe I would have simply picked up my telephone to find the answer to that question... that's just my guess only, of course...

The other thing I find odd (as far as a first reaction to the girls "missing" status goes) - there is no mention of checking/calling friends houses, or even checking at the homes of neighbors Elizabeth is known to play with etc.

The first action Wylma mentioned is getting in the car and driving around to parks. The parks make complete sense if they would be close to the Collin's home since the girls apparently stayed within a couple block radius. But to check Elk Run, Meyer's Lake, etc.? She did say they checked "all over Evansdale" so maybe she'd already made calls to homes they would have gone to...or maybe they have a rule of no going inside homes without asking or something along those lines.

But as a mother, my first action would be to call or go to neighbor kids houses, then maybe even call the friends who live further away to see if they were there...THEN maybe consider driving around to see if I saw their bikes in a friend's or neighbor's front yard. I just can't wrap my head around the getting in the car and heading for Elk Run first (if the order of her events in the interview are actually in the order of where she checked).

 

[chelsea6]

I just can't wrap my head around the getting in the car and heading for Elk Run first (if the order of her events in the interview are actually in the order of where she checked).

That IS odd! :waitasec:

 

[carbuff]

Criminal profiling is 100% perfect in hindsight, but doesn't it fail miserably when used to attempt to identify the identity of the perp?

Dunno. As I said, I wasn't trying to do profiling, I was using it as an example of the kind of alibi that makes me suspicious. It might be -- probably is -- a perfectly valid alibi.

 

[Marilynilpa]

The other thing I find odd (as far as a first reaction to the girls "missing" status goes) - there is no mention of checking/calling friends houses, or even checking at the homes of neighbors Elizabeth is known to play with etc.

The first action Wylma mentioned is getting in the car and driving around to parks. The parks make complete sense if they would be close to the Collin's home since the girls apparently stayed within a couple block radius. But to check Elk Run, Meyer's Lake, etc.? She did say they checked "all over Evansdale" so maybe she'd already made calls to homes they would have gone to...or maybe they have a rule of no going inside homes without asking or something along those lines.

But as a mother, my first action would be to call or go to neighbor kids houses, then maybe even call the friends who live further away to see if they were there...THEN maybe consider driving around to see if I saw their bikes in a friend's or neighbor's front yard. I just can't wrap my head around the getting in the car and heading for Elk Run first (if the order of her events in the interview are actually in the order of where she checked).

Is it possible Wylma didn't know the phone numbers of Lizzie's friends, or where they lived?

 

[Tennlyn]

We don't have any, but hopefully investigators do. I'm simply a bit confused why there is discussion about known criminals in the area. What evidence is there that these murders were committed by a criminal whose name is published on the internet?

I'm not interested in him because he's a criminal whose name is published on the internet. Sadly, there are millions of those!

However this particular RSO has a specific criminal background and residential history that got my attention.
:moo::moo::moo:

 

[carbuff]

The other thing I find odd (as far as a first reaction to the girls "missing" status goes) - there is no mention of checking/calling friends houses, or even checking at the homes of neighbors Elizabeth is known to play with etc.

The first action Wylma mentioned is getting in the car and driving around to parks. The parks make complete sense if they would be close to the Collin's home since the girls apparently stayed within a couple block radius. But to check Elk Run, Meyer's Lake, etc.? She did say they checked "all over Evansdale" so maybe she'd already made calls to homes they would have gone to...or maybe they have a rule of no going inside homes without asking or something along those lines.

But as a mother, my first action would be to call or go to neighbor kids houses, then maybe even call the friends who live further away to see if they were there...THEN maybe consider driving around to see if I saw their bikes in a friend's or neighbor's front yard. I just can't wrap my head around the getting in the car and heading for Elk Run first (if the order of her events in the interview are actually in the order of where she checked).

My brother and sister-in-law work at a Christie's-type establishment that shall go unnamed -- they aren't allowed to have their cell phones in their possession while they're working, and there's no way to receive a personal call. This became a serious issue while our dad was in the hospital this summer because we couldn't get hold of him a couple of times when we needed to. Even keeping the phones in the car and checking for messages while they were on their cigarette breaks nearly got them fired.

If the place Misty worked had a similar rule, they may have had no choice but to drive over to see if she had heard from the girls.

Unless there was another destination in Elk Run? Another relative's house?

 

[Marilynilpa]

We don't have any, but hopefully investigators do. I'm simply a bit confused why there is discussion about known criminals in the area. What evidence is there that these murders were committed by a criminal whose name is published on the internet?

Hi, otto, I've missed your input.

I believe there were a few coincidences that made a certain person seem suspicious. There's no evidence the murders were committed by him.

 

[threecrazykids]

Is it possible Wylma didn't know the phone numbers of Lizzie's friends, or where they lived?

Oh I'm sure it's possible. Very likely actually since she didn't live there. I just think its so strange to drive to Elk Run when they are confident the girls never went as far as even Meyer's Lake which was a mile closer to home.:banghead:

I just can't grasp why they would think to drive all the way to Elk Run.

 

[Marilynilpa]

Oh I'm sure it's possible. Very likely actually since she didn't live there. I just think its so strange to drive to Elk Run when they are confident the girls never went as far as even Meyer's Lake which was a mile closer to home.:banghead:

I just can't grasp why they would think to drive all the way to Elk Run.

Just add that to the list of things that make no sense in this case.:what:

 

[Squeeze]

I'd be happy to post a map, but I must have missed the earlier post. Are you looking for a map of the park, or the 270 street, both?

Both, plus where the bodies were located and also the white birch tree, if you know where that is.

 

[threecrazykids]

My brother and sister-in-law work at a Christie's-type establishment that shall go unnamed -- they aren't allowed to have their cell phones in their possession while they're working, and there's no way to receive a personal call. This became a serious issue while our dad was in the hospital this summer because we couldn't get hold of him a couple of times when we needed to. Even keeping the phones in the car and checking for messages while they were on their cigarette breaks nearly got them fired.

If the place Misty worked had a similar rule, they may have had no choice but to drive over to see if she had heard from the girls.

Unless there was another destination in Elk Run? Another relative's house?

But she didn't go to Casey's and ask Misty if she'd seen the girls. We know that because it's been explained via transcripts that 1 of 2 things happened...Misty came home from work to pick up Lyric and Grandma told her the girls weren't back yet. The other version is that Grandma called Misty at work and told her the girls were missing and she needed to come home.

So my assumption is that they drove to the Elk Run Heights park to check there. That is just an assumption of course...but we do know that they didn't talk to Misty while in Elk Run.

 

[GrainneDhu]

Criminal profiling is 100% perfect in hindsight, but doesn't it fail miserably when used to attempt to identify the identity of the perp?

Behavioural profiling (the usual kind) is about as useful as a psychic's predictions and relies very much on the same sort of ambiguities that allow at least part of the profile to seem accurate when the perp is caught.

Geographical profiling has a better track record but it is not 100% accurate either. It is most accurate with perps who commit crimes near their home areas. It is least accurate with travelling perps like Joseph Duncan.

It does seem to me that this case indicates a local perp because the two known crime scenes both appear to require local knowledge. On the other hand, in this day and age of search engines, mapping and aerial photography, it is not beyond belief that a travelling perp could have done some detailed research to find both locations. Once each location was identified, there was certainly plenty of information to be found online about it.

 

[carbuff]

But she didn't go to Casey's and ask Misty if she'd seen the girls. We know that because it's been explained via transcripts that 1 of 2 things happened...Misty came home from work to pick up Lyric and Grandma told her the girls weren't back yet. The other version is that Grandma called Misty at work and told her the girls were missing and she needed to come home.

So my assumption is that they drove to the Elk Run Heights park to check there. That is just an assumption of course...but we do know that they didn't talk to Misty while in Elk Run.

Okay, then that's a really odd thing to have said, and done.

 

[GrainneDhu]

BBM - and w/all due respect to you and Gma, IMHO, I believe I would have simply picked up my telephone to find the answer to that question... that's just my guess only, of course...

The last time she saw the girls was at 12:15 pm and she became worried by 12:25 pm, so she may have figured they hadn't had time to pedal all that way.

As far as I know, she never did actually drive over there. My impression was that she was describing the sorts of ideas that were going through her mind when she became worried about where the girls were.

 

[Squeeze]

The other thing I find odd (as far as a first reaction to the girls "missing" status goes) - there is no mention of checking/calling friends houses, or even checking at the homes of neighbors Elizabeth is known to play with etc.

The first action Wylma mentioned is getting in the car and driving around to parks. The parks make complete sense if they would be close to the Collin's home since the girls apparently stayed within a couple block radius. But to check Elk Run, Meyer's Lake, etc.? She did say they checked "all over Evansdale" so maybe she'd already made calls to homes they would have gone to...or maybe they have a rule of no going inside homes without asking or something along those lines.

But as a mother, my first action would be to call or go to neighbor kids houses, then maybe even call the friends who live further away to see if they were there...THEN maybe consider driving around to see if I saw their bikes in a friend's or neighbor's front yard. I just can't wrap my head around the getting in the car and heading for Elk Run first (if the order of her events in the interview are actually in the order of where she checked).

I've wondered that myself. I would have definitly checked the friends houses in the neighborhood fiirst. But, maybe she was driving around trying to find the bikes, and therefore the girls. Maybe she just kept expanding her search. You can cover pretty much most of Evansdale in the timeframe before the police were called in.

 

[foxbluff]

Is it possible Wylma didn't know the phone numbers of Lizzie's friends, or where they lived?

TY... I see what you're saying. It could, IMO, well be that Gma didn't know how to reach Lizzie's friends.

And, it could be that Drew (who Gma has stated in the press was home by now) didn't know how to contact Lizzie's friends either.

So, let's say she decided to jump in the car to take a quick drive around the couple/several blocks in which she might have had reason to believe that the girls would be found riding around on their bikes.

Having not found them on their bikes in that vicinity, why not then call Heather to find out how to contact Lizzie's friends?