IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #27

[threecrazykids]

The last time she saw the girls was at 12:15 pm and she became worried by 12:25 pm, so she may have figured they hadn't had time to pedal all that way.

As far as I know, she never did actually drive over there. My impression was that she was describing the sorts of ideas that were going through her mind when she became worried about where the girls were.

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/Vi...wa-girls-Lyric-Cook-Morrissey-s-grandma-talks

Per this video she states she got in the car and drove to Elk Run. She doesn't mention where they checked, but did state she drove to Elk Run.

 

[threecrazykids]

TY... I see what you're saying. It could, IMO, well be that Gma didn't know how to reach Lizzie's friends.

And, it could be that Drew (who Gma has stated in the press was home by now) didn't know how to contact Lizzie's friends either.

So, let's say she decided to jump in the car to take a quick drive around the couple/several blocks in which she might have had reason to believe that the girls would be found riding around on their bikes.

Having not found them on their bikes in that vicinity, why not then call Heather to find out how to contact Lizzie's friends?

BTW, have we heard whether or not Heather had a cell phone?

Again, per this video Wylma states Heather had just come home and she told her that the girls weren't back (at 12:30) and that "the dad was home" so they got in the car (Wylma and her grandson)and drove around searching for an hour.
Heather I have to assume was driving around too (I don't have a link for her statement - if there is one - of what she did before reporting the girls missing to the police.)

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/Vi...wa-girls-Lyric-Cook-Morrissey-s-grandma-talks

 

[Tucarra]

redruM.

Oh please, no....that dang movie still freaks me out after seeing it 30 years ago...:nerves:

 

[Marilynilpa]

TY... I see what you're saying. It could, IMO, well be that Gma didn't know how to reach Lizzie's friends.

And, it could be that Drew (who Gma has stated in the press was home by now) didn't know how to contact Lizzie's friends either.

So, let's say she decided to jump in the car to take a quick drive around the couple/several blocks in which she might have had reason to believe that the girls would be found riding around on their bikes.

Having not found them on their bikes in that vicinity, why not then call Heather to find out how to contact Lizzie's friends?

Maybe she didn't want to concern Heather while she was at her doctor's appointment? I really have no idea why things were done the way they were - fortunately I've never been in that situation so I don't know how clear-thinking I would be. It sounds like Wylma drove all over looking for the girls, so perhaps Drew was making phone calls to Lizzie's friends.

It's confusing to me, as always.

 

[Marilynilpa]

Again, per this video Wylma states Heather had just come home and she told her that the girls weren't back (at 12:30) and that "the dad was home" so they got in the car (Wylma and her grandson)and drove around searching for an hour.
Heather I have to assume was driving around too (I don't have a link for her statement - if there is one - of what she did before reporting the girls missing to the police.)

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/Vi...wa-girls-Lyric-Cook-Morrissey-s-grandma-talks

I don't have a statement from Heather, but here's what Misty said about it:

I left for work. At 2:00 o`clock, my mother, their grandmother, called and said she couldn`t find them. They`d been on a bike ride, and you know, to come directly to Heather`s home. I only work just up the street. I came directly there.

My mom had been driving around looking for them. We stood in the yard and talked for a few minutes. Heather pulled up, had not been able to find them. It was about 2:20, 2:30 PM. And so Heather said, I`m going to the police station. And that`s when she went to the Evansdale PD to involve them.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1207/17/ng.01.html

BBM

 

[otto]

Both, plus where the bodies were located and also the white birch tree, if you know where that is.

These are a few of the maps I put together when the children were found.

This is the park in relation to Evansdale. The bottom two red dots are home and the bikes, and the top red dot is bodies.

I think that someone else created the images with the red circle around the tree and I estimated where I thought the photographer was standing

This shows where the girls were found in the park

This is the entire park with marked roads, and the end of 270 until the other side of the river, where it starts again.

I went over this photo to outline where the crime scene tape is, and it looks like the crooked tree in the first photo may be the same one that the tape is wrapped around on the left

 

[foxbluff]

Again, per this video Wylma states Heather had just come home and she told her that the girls weren't back (at 12:30) and that "the dad was home" so they got in the car (Wylma and her grandson)and drove around searching for an hour.
Heather I have to assume was driving around too (I don't have a link for her statement - if there is one - of what she did before reporting the girls missing to the police.)

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/Vi...wa-girls-Lyric-Cook-Morrissey-s-grandma-talks

Sorry, I can't play the video. My memory it was Drew who had arrived home when Gma jumped in the car with Lizzie's brother and drove out to look for the girls. To the best of my memory, Heather hadn't arrived home at the point Gma and Lizzie's brother left to search.

When Gma didn't find the girls, I believe she called Misty to tell her to come to Heather's after work as "they needed to find their kids." IIRC, Gma then left for her own home. (IMO there was no "panic mode" at that point in time.)

I tried to find a link for what I think Gma said, but was unable to do so... probably because I've been on here entirely too long today.

Will be happy to look for link tomorrow if anybody requests it.

Goodnight all.

 

[SouthernMom]

Behavioural profiling (the usual kind) is about as useful as a psychic's predictions and relies very much on the same sort of ambiguities that allow at least part of the profile to seem accurate when the perp is caught.

Geographical profiling has a better track record but it is not 100% accurate either. It is most accurate with perps who commit crimes near their home areas. It is least accurate with travelling perps like Joseph Duncan.

It does seem to me that this case indicates a local perp because the two known crime scenes both appear to require local knowledge. On the other hand, in this day and age of search engines, mapping and aerial photography, it is not beyond belief that a travelling perp could have done some detailed research to find both locations. Once each location was identified, there was certainly plenty of information to be found online about it.

This is an insightful and well spoken post. IMO just because one scenario is more likely that does not make it the reality. We can't even rule out that the perp could be a woman. Melissa Huckaby's murder of Sandra Cantu changed the way I think about these cases.

 

[hollyblue]

But she didn't go to Casey's and ask Misty if she'd seen the girls. We know that because it's been explained via transcripts that 1 of 2 things happened...Misty came home from work to pick up Lyric and Grandma told her the girls weren't back yet. The other version is that Grandma called Misty at work and told her the girls were missing and she needed to come home.

So my assumption is that they drove to the Elk Run Heights park to check there. That is just an assumption of course...but we do know that they didn't talk to Misty while in Elk Run.

You know, that's an excellent point.

Misty was called and Heather was told when she got back from the Dr's appt.

 

[hollyblue]

I don't have a statement from Heather, but here's what Misty said about it:

I left for work. At 2:00 o`clock, my mother, their grandmother, called and said she couldn`t find them. They`d been on a bike ride, and you know, to come directly to Heather`s home. I only work just up the street. I came directly there.

My mom had been driving around looking for them. We stood in the yard and talked for a few minutes. Heather pulled up, had not been able to find them. It was about 2:20, 2:30 PM. And so Heather said, I`m going to the police station. And that`s when she went to the Evansdale PD to involve them.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1207/17/ng.01.html

BBM

So .....it looks like Heather had been driving around from 12:30 to 2:30 (2 hrs) before filing a report around 2:45. JMO, and not being negative on HC, but if it were me missing a daughter...about a 1/2 hr is all I could manage without going nuts and calling LE, especially if they were only to be within a two block area.

 

[hollyblue]

Otto, I think in your photo of the park, the roads and the river, the white birch would have been on the road/path farthest to the NW side of the park. Almost to the tip of where there is that "hook".

 

[hollyblue]

Sorry, I can't play the video. My memory it was Drew who had arrived home when Gma jumped in the car with Lizzie's brother and drove out to look for the girls. To the best of my memory, Heather hadn't arrived home at the point Gma and Lizzie's brother left to search.

When Gma didn't find the girls, I believe she called Misty to tell her to come to Heather's after work as "they needed to find their kids." IIRC, Gma then left for her own home. (IMO there was no "panic mode" at that point in time.)

I tried to find a link for what I think Gma said, but was unable to do so... probably because I've been on here entirely too long today.

Will be happy to look for link tomorrow if anybody requests it.

Goodnight all.

I had thought HC hadn't arrived yet either, but I found the "windy lake video interview of Gma" and she stated 12:30 was the time Heather pulled up and they both went out searching for the girls. I didn't listen to that video until after the girls were found. I couldn't hear because the crackling noise was just horrible and it gave me a headache...so after a minute of that I turned it off; but finally suffered thru it to listen.

 

[Marilynilpa]

So .....it looks like Heather had been driving around from 12:30 to 2:30 (2 hrs) before filing a report around 2:45. JMO, and not being negative on HC, but if it were me missing a daughter...about a 1/2 hr is all I could manage without going nuts and calling LE, especially if they were only to be within a two block area.

I don't believe Heather was looking for the girls as early as 12:30. I believe Drew came home at 12:30, so Wylma and Kelley went looking for the girls while Drew remained home to watch his other two daughters.

Various times were stated by different family members, so it isn't easy to piece it together. Wylma says one thing, Tammy says something else, and Misty says something different. It's unclear to me who did what when on July 13th.

 

[otto]

Otto, I think in your photo of the park, the roads and the river, the white birch would have been on the road/path farthest to the NW side of the park. Almost to the tip of where there is that "hook".

I have missed all the discussion about the birch tree. Can you bring me up to speed?

 

[Marilynilpa]

I have missed all the discussion about the birch tree. Can you bring me up to speed?

otto, the birch tree conversation arose because of Squeeze's post:

View attachment 29164

Crosses left for Elizabeth & Lyric at the intersection of 270th Street and Tuscon Avenue (the road is 270th, looking east). Note the white tree in the background, the same one referenced by the man in the video

View attachment 29165

The gate at 270th street, the entrance to the park. The road was bad here, minimal maintenance.

View attachment 29166

"Address" for Seven Bridges, just so I could remember.

ETA: One poster called the tree eerie, one said it was beautiful, I believe someone said it was scary, and that's how the white birch tree conversation began.

 

[Mjskit]

I had thought HC hadn't arrived yet either, but I found the "windy lake video interview of Gma" and she stated 12:30 was the time Heather pulled up and they both went out searching for the girls. I didn't listen to that video until after the girls were found. I couldn't hear because the crackling noise was just horrible and it gave me a headache...so after a minute of that I turned it off; but finally suffered thru it to listen.

In that video of Grandma she says she drove "down here" (0:50) meaning Myers Lake? I assume that is what she means since the footage is recorded at Myers Lake.

 

[otto]

otto, the birch tree conversation arose because of Squeeze's post:



ETA: One poster called the tree eerie, one said it was beautiful, I believe someone said it was scary, and that's how the white birch tree conversation began.

Thanks! It looks like it's along the edge of the farmers field, in exactly the same location where the man in the video thought the bodies were found. I don't think that the birch tree has any connection with where the girls were found.

 

[Marilynilpa]

Thanks! It looks like it's along the edge of the farmers field, in exactly the same location where the man in the video thought the bodies were found. I don't think that the birch tree has any connection with where the girls were found.

I don't think it does, either.

But isn't is a beautiful tree, standing all alone.

 

[Dr. Know?]

It's a white tree. A brich, I know birches. To me it stands out and if the area I intended to go to that was rural, that tree might be my marker to know where to turn next on the numbered road or just as a landmark being the only one from that picture direction standing out. Good shot btw.

Oh, I just remembered it could have been nightime, that would help mark the right road possibly.

"It's the one past the birch tree"...

eta, or they drove straight in via Readlyn.

 

[jenandemmie]

O/T - here's the link to an interesting article about pedophilia from today's L.A. Times:

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-pedophiles-20130115,0,197689.story?track=lat-pick

Like many forms of sexual deviance, pedophilia once was thought to stem from psychological influences early in life. Now, many experts view it as a sexual orientation as immutable as heterosexuality or homosexuality. It is a deep-rooted predisposition — limited almost entirely to men — that becomes clear during puberty and does not change.
. . .

Not all pedophiles molest children. Nor are all child molesters pedophiles. Studies show that about half of all molesters are not sexually attracted to their victims. They often have personality disorders or violent streaks, and their victims are typically family members.

Great article. It made me go pull my "Sex Crimes" textbook from a few semesters ago to jog my memory for the term "mysoped". There is a certain type of pedophile called a mysoped. This type is listed as the worst of the worst. They are typically men, attracted to the 7-11 age group and their main interest is in hurting and causing extreme physical pain, along with a sex act, or with some other ritual taking the place of the sex act, up to and including dismemberment and necrophilia. Of the 5 main types of pedophiles, only one, the mysoped/sadistic offender, has any desire to hurt the child. If we assume for a moment that the crime was indeed sexually motivated (I feel it is, for reasons I've stated in other threads but would repeat if requested) then I think it's fair to assume we are dealing with a mysoped since the girls were murdered. And mysopeds are usually strangers who stalk and fantasize about their victims before they act, with very little or no prior contact with the child before the plan begins to form. Since they hadn't been doing this specific routine very long it's possible that someone, a mysoped, lives in the immediate area where they have been riding their bikes. They do covet what they see around them (stolen from Silence of the Lambs bc it is a great example of what I'm talking about, even if it is fiction). And 5 days is more than long enough to entice a serious predator into forming a detailed plan. And since it was a Friday, they may have thought this was their last chance to get them, not knowing if this was a special week/vacation arrangement that would end after that day.

More info on mysopeds here (scroll down halfway) --> http://www1.csbsju.edu/uspp/CrimPsych/CPSG-6.htm

Link to JVM transcript where Misty states that they have been riding bikes around the neighborhood together for the previous five days:

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1207/17/ng.01.html

"COOK-MORRISSEY: I just started -- I just started the job at Casey`s, so the last five days, Lyric and Elizabeth have been playing at Heather`s every day, taking bike rides, so as far as a pattern, yes, could somebody have been watching them there, and seeing that they play together, that hang out together, this last week. Yes, that could have happened."