IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #28

[Squeeze]

I can't even imagine (thank God) being the family of these girls...but I truly believe in my heart I would be much more vocal and public than anyone in this family is being.

I just can't fathom falling into the background, staying silent and "letting LE do what they do best". Not a chance in hell.

I would be in constant contact, being the most annoying mother on the face of the planet until they damn near got a restraining order to keep me away.

I am a Christian. I go to church. However - I don't think I could leave it in God's hands as this entire family has appeared to do. HELL NO.

I'd want answers. I'd want updates. I'd make sure that LE knew that I wasn't going away until they found out who did this to my child.

I can tell you with 100% certainty I wouldn't be as quiet as this family is. I wouldn't be thankful or feel blessed that my child was with God. I would be PISSED, vengeful, and no way would I be rejoicing her return home in heaven. I am entirely too selfish to even attempt to find the good in it...even if there is nothing I could do to change it.

I would be a furious mother who would NOT stop until her killer was found, and THAT I can say with 100% certainty.

I am not even these girls parents and I want answers! :furious:

But we don't know that that isn't happening. They might be giving the family more Info than they're releasing publicly. The Collins are good friends with Kent Smock.

 

[otto]

The objective is for LE to review all of the evidence they have, which is I'm sure 1000 times more than they've released, and maybe just release SOMETHING that would not jeapordize the case, but given a little more clarity to the timeline, route they took, who the girls talked to, etc. We've heard rumors that they asked directions at Fareway, that their friends say them at some point, etc., etc. Upthread a dew posts, someone mentioned that someone may have been walking their dog, weeding their garden. Well, if those people are not as diligent asa we are about every detail, they may think, oh those girls rode up River Forest Road, so that couldn't have been them that I saw ride past on Dolmen and Central....." So a simple detail like confirming a siting at a certain location might spur someones memory. I cant believe that there isn't some detail that they release. There are 100,000 people in Evansdale, Waterloo, Cedar Falls that would love to help solve this case.

Unless I'm misunderstanding, basically the objective is to have police release more information. They've released a statement that more information will not be released because it may compromise the intergrity of the investigation. Shouldn't we accept that?

 

[SapphireSteel]

But we don't know that that isn't happening. They might be giving the family more I to than they're releasing publicly. The Collins are good friends with Kent Smock.

They are?????? :what:

Let me guess...same church?

That's actually thrown me a bit. I imagined Smock to be totally impartial and only involved on a professional level.

 

[SapphireSteel]

Unless I'm misunderstanding, basically the objective is to have police release more information. They've released a statement that more information will not be released because it may compromise the intergrity of the investigation. Shouldn't we accept that?

I'm not quite sure where this has come from, no one has suggested LE compromise their investigation by releasing one word of sensitive information. :waitasec:

The fact that locals have posted on the fb page and been ignored is what I'm talking about. The total silence.

Apart from keeping locals involved and in the loop, which seems a smart investigative move, the publicity blackout is also disrespectful to Lizzie and Lyric, their memory, and what happened to them.

I believe the local public has a right to know the investigation is still active and viable, especially when they ask directly. The public has had its' fill of shonky and ill-run police investigations, churches, schools, hospitals, all of whom hid behind a wall of silence in the past. I'm not saying for one second this is the case here, but publicly sponsored organisations in general need to be far more open, approachable and transparent, not less.

A lot of people actually fear and dislike LE, and they will not be likely to try to give information a second time, if their first contact is ignored.

It has only been a few short months since our girls disappeared and now they've been found, and we have not one single acknowledgement this year that the investigation is still viable, or even that they need more information, help, tips...just stony silence, for weeks now.

I'm not psychic and I don't think LE are either, and as there has been no arrests it is only natural to assume they may still need public help and information to bring justice for the girls...especially from locals.

Silence and ignoring questions from the those locals is not professional, reassuring, pro-active, a smart investigative move, or respectful to the victims, especially in the relatively early days of such a horrific and unheard-of crime occuring.

I used to be a public servant working with confidential information, and all staff from the engineers down, were obligated to respond to any enquiry within 24 hours, much like a bank or telco.

We were NOT obligated to provide information, but we were obligated to acknowledge and address the enquiry in a formal manner, even if all we could say is "sorry I cannot divulge that information".

We still had to respond to the enquirer in a professional, timely manner, and the goal of this obligation was mainly to acknowledge the enquirer that someone is actually listening, and has received their query/complaint/opinion.

It's called Accountability and should be an intrinsic part of all organisations that serve the public and use tax payer dollars to pay themselves wages.

This would cost nothing and absorb zero police hours. You can guarantee there is already some civilian female sitting there responding to letters and emails from "important people".

The higher you rank in LE, the more of an administrative position you have. Police chiefs write and answer letters all day, every day. They have secretaries. All they do is scan the responses and sign at the bottom. I know first hand because for a few months every letter our Chief Commissioner of Police sent out was composed and written by myself.

"Dear x,

I acknowledge receipt of your letter/email dated y.

Unfortunately your enquiry comes under the Privacy Act and I am unable to divulge the details you request, however your concern has been noted and you can be assured we are working hard to resolve this issue.

Yours faithfully
The Commissioner"

My old boss was a highly decorated and prominent long-serving policeman who oversaw the entire state and is even now (retired), familiar to everyone from pressers and major crimes. He (I) would send out around 20-40 of these letters a week, on a slow week. Often they were responses to people complaining about tennis balls ending up in their driveway or dogs weeing on their nature strip...they still got a response from the big guy, even if it was written by me.

I think folks would feel differently if it was someone they knew who was murdered. Imagine asking LE if they knew who killed your friend/coworker/neighbour yet and you got absolutely no response?

It would be deeply upsetting, I would imagine. You would feel that your loved one was being forgotten, and fearful of it happening to someone else.

:cow:

 

[otto]

I believe the local public has a right to know the investigation is still active and viable, especially when they ask directly. The public has had its' fill of shonky and ill-run police investigations, churches, schools, hospitals, all of whom hid behind a wall of silence in the past. I'm not saying for one second this is the case here, but publicly sponsored organisations in general need to be far more open, approachable and transparent, not less.

<respectfully snipped>

BBM

The investigation is still active.
The general public knows this.

 

[SapphireSteel]

<respectfully snipped>

BBM

The investigation is still active.
The general public knows this.

Just like they knew Boulder PD had the Ramsey case.

ullhair:

 

[chelsea6]

I'm curious ... what is the objective? Do you want Abben to change his mind and answer questions? We know that's not going to happen. Do you want Abben to summarize the information that is already available to the public, or provide information about how the public can access media releases? Do you want him to confirm that police are still working on the case?

I sincerely appreciate that you can provide a local perspective, but aren't you concerned that police may visit you at home or work and investigate your interest in the case?

I sincerely appreciate that you can provide a local perspective, but aren't you concerned that police may visit you at home or work and investigate your interest in the case?
Heck no, they can visit me anytime they want to. I don't have an arrest record, not even a speeding ticket. Why are you even asking this question? Would this make YOU concerned (afraid maybe?), as if you have something to hide?
And why are you so adamant when it comes to this subject? If we FEEL this way, we FEEL this way. I for one do not appreciate being analyzed, poked and prodded by you when expressing my opinion. oke:

Do you want Abben to change his mind and answer questions? We know that's not going to happen.
You can't speak for Captain Abben, or all of us here at Websleuths, either. You have no idea if he would or would not change his mind in the future about answering questions. You aren't him. There might be even ONE question he is able to answer that hasn't been asked yet that won't jeapordize the case, and if asked, he may just reply with an answer. You can't say "We know that's not going to happen".

Do you want Abben to summarize the information that is already available to the public, or provide information about how the public can access media releases? Do you want him to confirm that police are still working on the case? Well, of course this would be a kindness to the locals here. :yes:

 

[tlcya]

yikes. round and round. still chasing our tails and now the lack of anything new to discuss has many of us rubbing one another the wrong way.

Popped in to check for updates, tiptoeing back out now. Nothing to be gained here at the moment but hard feelings. MOO.

 

[threecrazykids]

But we don't know that that isn't happening. They might be giving the family more I to than they're releasing publicly. The Collins are good friends with Kent Smock.

You could be right...however Heather and Drew in many interviews say they don't want details and they are leaving the whole thing in God's hands...that Elizabeth is in a better place. That has been their battle cry since day 1 (that whatever happens is God's will). Dan and Misty have also been silent as far as the media goes.

But that is the family's choice...I'm not degrading how they decide to mourn their child and whether or not they decide to be an integral part of the search for their killers...I'm simply stating I wouldn't behave the way they are. Neither is wrong...just different. Hope that makes sense.

If anyone could point me to a recent statement, article, etc. where the family is continuing to plead with the public to keep the girls in the spotlight I would be thrilled!:great:

 

[Whisperer]

Didn't you say you were single? Maybe it's time to visit Evansdale and join my Date-A-Cop program. The date would be more of an interrogation so for our purposes we'd like you to record the conversation. :floorlaugh:

:lol:

 

[otto]

I sincerely appreciate that you can provide a local perspective, but aren't you concerned that police may visit you at home or work and investigate your interest in the case?
Heck no, they can visit me anytime they want to. I don't have an arrest record, not even a speeding ticket. Why are you even asking this question? Would this make YOU concerned (afraid maybe?), as if you have something to hide?
And why are you so adamant when it comes to this subject? If we FEEL this way, we FEEL this way. I for one do not appreciate being analyzed, poked and prodded by you when expressing my opinion. oke:

Do you want Abben to change his mind and answer questions? We know that's not going to happen.
You can't speak for Captain Abben, or all of us here at Websleuths, either. You have no idea if he would or would not change his mind in the future about answering questions. You aren't him. There might be even ONE question he is able to answer that hasn't been asked yet that won't jeapordize the case, and if asked, he may just reply with an answer. You can't say "We know that's not going to happen".

Do you want Abben to summarize the information that is already available to the public, or provide information about how the public can access media releases? Do you want him to confirm that police are still working on the case? Well, of course this would be a kindness to the locals here. :yes:

I followed a case where there was a local woman that followed a case very closely. She was posting comments online from work and home. She attended specific local events so she could bump into an officer (an acquaintance) that was on the case because she wanted to get a little more information. She was always making inquiries and trying to get the inside scoop. She then posted that information on a forum.

Police did not appreciate the information that she was posting. They contacted the website owner, obtained the IP addresses of the person making the posts and then paid her a visit at work to discuss the situation with her employer. When her employer discovered what she was doing, and that some of what was posted occurred during work, that woman was fired.

I'm not suggesting that this is what is happening here, but I would not want to see a repeat of what I described above. It was a very unfortunate situation for months following the dismissal from work.

In the future, investigators may decide to release a statement, but it will not be a result of someone asking them to make a statement. If a statement is made, it will be because it is part of the investigative strategy. Solving the case is the priority, satisfying the curiosity of people unrelated to the case is not.

Let me ask the inverse ... does anyone actually believe that Evansdale police have decided that they have better things to do than solve the abduction and murder of two children?

 

[Whisperer]

This case is driving me to drink....just like the Holly Bobo case. I should not even read about these cases when LE is NOT going to say anything. I know where it is headed and I call it the "Circular File". Neither of these cases want the public's help. Okiedokiethen! Why can't I take a hint?

:drink:

 

[eileenhawkeye]

I followed a case where there was a local woman that followed a case very closely. She was posting comments online from work and home. She attended specific local events so she could bump into an officer (an acquaintance) that was on the case because she wanted to get a little more information. She was always making inquiries and trying to get the inside scoop. She then posted that information on a forum.

Police did not appreciate the information that she was posting. They contacted the website owner, obtained the IP addresses of the person making the posts and then paid her a visit at work to discuss the situation with her employer. When her employer discovered what she was doing, and that some of what was posted occurred during work, that woman was fired.

I'm not suggesting that this is what is happening here, but I would not want to see a repeat of what I described above. It was a very unfortunate situation for months following the dismissal from work.

In the future, investigators may decide to release a statement, but it will not be a result of someone asking them to make a statement. If a statement is made, it will be because it is part of the investigative strategy. Solving the case is the priority, satisfying the curiosity of people unrelated to the case is not.

Let me ask the inverse ... does anyone actually believe that Evansdale police have decided that they have better things to do than solve the abduction and murder of two children?

At the moment? No. I'm sure LE is still diligently working on the case. But a year from now? I would be shocked if there are more than two people working on the case (but assigned to other cases), and a very small amount of money being pumped into it. Unfortunately, there are thousands of cold cases involving children out there and I definitely don't believe that LE is using significant resources/effort to investigate 99% of them after the six-month mark.

 

[otto]

You could be right...however Heather and Drew in many interviews say they don't want details and they are leaving the whole thing in God's hands...that Elizabeth is in a better place. That has been their battle cry since day 1 (that whatever happens is God's will). Dan and Misty have also been silent as far as the media goes.

But that is the family's choice...I'm not degrading how they decide to mourn their child and whether or not they decide to be an integral part of the search for their killers...I'm simply stating I wouldn't behave the way they are. Neither is wrong...just different. Hope that makes sense.

If anyone could point me to a recent statement, article, etc. where the family is continuing to plead with the public to keep the girls in the spotlight I would be thrilled!:great:

I must be completely missing something. How could the family continue to be an integral part of the search for a murderer? They had to be front and centre when the children were missing to ensure police and public that the family were not involved in the disappearance. Now that the children have been found, I don't know of anything more that they can do except hope that there is an arrest, trial and conviction.

Heather is hosting a Valentine's event. That's an excellent way to keep the investigation in the news. Maybe the media could do a story on that event just to remind the public that the case is not yet solved.

 

[otto]

This case is driving me to drink....just like the Holly Bobo case. I should not even read about these cases when LE is NOT going to say anything. I know where it is headed and I call it the "Circular File". Neither of these cases want the public's help. Okiedokiethen! Why can't I take a hint?

:drink:

You mean like the general public as private investigators?

 

[otto]

At the moment? No. I'm sure LE is still diligently working on the case. But a year from now? I would be shocked if there are more than two people working on the case (but assigned to other cases), and a very small amount of money being pumped into it. Unfortunately, there are thousands of cold cases involving children out there and I definitely don't believe that LE is using significant resources/effort to investigate 99% of them after the six-month mark.

It happened July 13. It's now February 2. That's almost 7 months. What it looks like to me is that a predator is living in the Evansdale area. In cases where two young girls are abducted and left murdered in a very isolated place, it's usually a bad sign ... like it might happen again ... to another young girl. If the perp is still unidentified in the summer of 2013, I don't think anyone is going to be relaxed.

Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems like a small, formerly safe place and until the perp is caught, it cannot be a safe place ... seems like police cannot let this one go.

 

[Marilynilpa]

I'm curious ... what is the objective? Do you want Abben to change his mind and answer questions? We know that's not going to happen. Do you want Abben to summarize the information that is already available to the public, or provide information about how the public can access media releases? Do you want him to confirm that police are still working on the case?

I sincerely appreciate that you can provide a local perspective, but aren't you concerned that police may visit you at home or work and investigate your interest in the case?

BBM

I think it's this concern that causes some folks to keep quiet about what they know. JMO

 

[threecrazykids]

SBM:

Let me ask the inverse ... does anyone actually believe that Evansdale police have decided that they have better things to do than solve the abduction and murder of two children?


I must be completely missing something. How could the family continue to be an integral part of the search for a murderer? They had to be front and centre when the children were missing to ensure police and public that the family were not involved in the disappearance. Now that the children have been found, I don't know of anything more that they can do except hope that there is an arrest, trial and conviction.

Heather is hosting a Valentine's event. That's an excellent way to keep the investigation in the news. Maybe the media could do a story on that event just to remind the public that the case is not yet solved.

As far as whether or not LE has anything better to do I think the answer is possibly yes. IF by chance there is a possible drug connection, LE could possibly be building a HUGE take down of some drug ring. Who knows. That could be something that is holding an arrest up...maybe they are going to make some sting that could show some pedo ring as well.

My other concern would be who all is working on the investigation. Are the feds still actively involved? Or does it all get handed back to Black Hawk County or Evansdale PD at a certain point? That I don't know. If it gets handed back at some point I am almost certain there won't ever be an arrest. Evansdale doesn't have this kind of crime. They can't possibly be experts in these types of cases...and neither would Black Hawk County. They just don't see it enough to be experts.

And I would hope that the media has been privy to the Valentine's event, I'd be surprised if they weren't notified. Anything that keeps these girls names out there is a great thing!

 

[otto]

BBM

I think it's this concern that causes some folks to keep quiet about what they know. JMO

If someone has a legitimate tip, I don't think that investigators will ignore it ... at least I hope not. However, what I'm saying is something different.

If someone were to drive down the street with the window rolled down, approaching potential witnesses (from shortly before the abduction) and questioning them on what they saw and remembered, that's the sort of thing that gets the wrong kind of attention ... it can appear to be interfering with a police investigation, tampering with witnesses ... I don't know enough about it, but I think it would give the wrong impression.

The legitimate police tip would be: stranger in neighborhood asking unusual questions about the disappearance

 

[otto]

As far as whether or not LE has anything better to do I think the answer is possibly yes. IF by chance there is a possible drug connection, LE could possibly be building a HUGE take down of some drug ring. Who knows. That could be something that is holding an arrest up...maybe they are going to make some sting that could show some pedo ring as well.

My other concern would be who all is working on the investigation. Are the feds still actively involved? Or does it all get handed back to Black Hawk County or Evansdale PD at a certain point? That I don't know. If it gets handed back at some point I am almost certain there won't ever be an arrest. Evansdale doesn't have this kind of crime. They can't possibly be experts in these types of cases...and neither would Black Hawk County. They just don't see it enough to be experts.

And I would hope that the media has been privy to the Valentine's event, I'd be surprised if they weren't notified. Anything that keeps these girls names out there is a great thing!

Let's suppose police are working on a big drug sting. Even drug manufacturers and dealers should object to the abduction and murder of two young girls. They're druggies, not child killers, although the child killer may be a druggie of some sort. Would pedophile rings keep the two girls together and leave them 20 miles out of town five months later? That doesn't sound like a very organized pedophile ring. An organized one would immediately separate the chidlren and send them far away.

It seems to me that if anyone knew who did this to these children, they would want to ensure that it doesn't happen again ... besides, Evansdale people don't seem all that bad, and there's only 100,000 of them. It doesn't strike me as a big crazy pedophile/drug ring sort of place ... but I've never been there.