IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #28

[otto]

Most of the area is government land but the small "corner" where the girls were found is part of a private property that abuts the edge.

It is quite a spooky out of the way place.

The man who took the reporter out there said that only people known to the family are allowed to hunt there, but he went into quite a lot of detail about the public land, apparently it used to be very popular with picnic benches everywhere, all removed now for some reason.

The children were found at Seven Bridges County Park, which is government land. They were not found on private property.

 

[NWLady]

It's almost as though the girls were put inside some type of container at the water's edge and driven out of Maiden Lane. Remember Ollipop saw some sort of tread (I think on Maiden Lane). :twocents:

Speaking of that, what happened to Ollipop? Sure do miss Ollipop's posts. Hope everything is okay :waitasec:

 

[palaminodee]

If not for sexual purposes, what was the killer's motive?

(Taking drugs out of the scenario).

other possibilities:
pure psychopath murderer; girls being in the wrong place at the wrong time
revenge against a non-drug involved family member

 

[threecrazykids]

other possibilities:
pure psychopath murderer; girls being in the wrong place at the wrong time
revenge against a non-drug involved family member

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...morrissey-elizabeth-collins-article-1.1118627


"We're looking at everybody, not just one set of parents over the other. Not just because one family may have a criminal background. Everything has to be considered," Abben said.

 

[otto]

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...morrissey-elizabeth-collins-article-1.1118627


"We're looking at everybody, not just one set of parents over the other. Not just because one family may have a criminal background. Everything has to be considered," Abben said.

That makes sense. On July 20 (date of article), a week after the children were abducted, police were still in the process of ruling out the family ... at the same time as looking at sexual predators and so on.

 

[threecrazykids]

That makes sense. On July 20 (date of article), a week after the children were abducted, police were still in the process of ruling out the family ... at the same time as looking at sexual predators and so on.

Yep...I think they were looking at everyone at that point.

Maybe it's just me being pessimistic (I know...shocker...:blushing but I can't overlook the comments made by LE in this article:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/...ok-killer-missing-iowa-cousins_n_2257742.html

After nearly five months of chasing tips and theories about the girls' whereabouts, Thompson said police "finally have something credible. We finally have something we can sink our teeth into" in the high-profile case.

Maybe I'm just reading into his words, but the way I read this, it sounds like TT is blatantly admitting they really didn't have anything credible until they found the bodies. That is so heartbreaking.

Maybe he's making a less-than-factual comment, or maybe he's being 100% truthful...maybe, even with ALL the tips they had, they still had nothing credible that gave them any solid leads.

I really hope that LE was able to find SOMETHING at the scene to help lead to an arrest. I just don't want to believe that someone could honestly do this to two little girls and get away with it. lease:

 

[24Roses]

The children were found at Seven Bridges County Park, which is government land. They were not found on private property.

I think maybe the man in the video meant that the field he was walking in was private property, not the park itself?

 

[Fukiyama]

So wait...Dan had a plea deal set up, then reneged the day before the girls went missing, changed his plea to Not Guilty, then went to trial and pleaded Guilty?

WTF?

So he had 5 years or so set up, rejected it, then put his hands up to everything anyway and is going to get 200 years now????

That doesn't even make sense, why on earth would someone do that?

It seems that his freedom from July to now (8 months) has literally cost him 195 years of his life:??? Am I missing something?

Dan going back on his plea deal and pleading not guilty the day before has been known since day one. It is the primary reason I have never discounted a possible drug angle in the whole thing. It's just too weird to be a coincidence.

 

[otto]

Yep...I think they were looking at everyone at that point.

Maybe it's just me being pessimistic (I know...shocker...:blushing but I can't overlook the comments made by LE in this article:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/...ok-killer-missing-iowa-cousins_n_2257742.html

After nearly five months of chasing tips and theories about the girls' whereabouts, Thompson said police "finally have something credible. We finally have something we can sink our teeth into" in the high-profile case.

Maybe I'm just reading into his words, but the way I read this, it sounds like TT is blatantly admitting they really didn't have anything credible until they found the bodies. That is so heartbreaking.

Maybe he's making a less-than-factual comment, or maybe he's being 100% truthful...maybe, even with ALL the tips they had, they still had nothing credible that gave them any solid leads.

I really hope that LE was able to find SOMETHING at the scene to help lead to an arrest. I just don't want to believe that someone could honestly do this to two little girls and get away with it. lease:

On December 7, the date of that statement, police would have been hopeful that they could find some evidence on the children's bodies or at the Seven Bridges County Park crime scene. I think we all know that police had nothing prior to the discovery of the bodies except some information about the timeline of the children prior to the abduction. I don't think they're any further ahead today.

I have to wonder if part of the problem in the investigation is the contradictory statements from the family. I am reminded of Natalie Holloway, who vanished in Aruba. Her family seemed to want to protect her reputation, and as a result she was described as pretty much perfect - religious, honor student, never drank, never did anything that wasn't perfect. Eventually it came out that she was drinking all day during the four days that she was in Aruba, that she was a risk taker while impaired, that she was making poor choices, and that her judgment would have been seriously impaired when she left the bar with Joran van der Sloot. The point of whether she was sober and had her wits about her, or whether she was completely out of her mind on alcohol, became important in terms of understanding her actions on the night she vanished. Alcohol was not to blame, she was not to blame, but her actions prior to her disappearance were an important clue in understanding how it happened.

In terms of this case, we have heard that the children regularly cycled to the lake, but at least on parent has said that this would never happen. Elizabeth, in particular, has been described as a religious, perfect child that kept no secrets from her mother (they shared secrets at evening ice cream time), and who always did the right thing. It has been said that she carried her purse everywhere because she was a girly girl. What if there's more to this. What if she carried her purse because she and Lyric liked to cycle to the lake and stop at one of the stores to buy candy. What if Elizabeth did regularly cycle to Lake Avenue, but for some reason the family doesn't want it known that she was often unsupervised at the age of 8.

The question of whether the girls were often unsupervised and whether they often ventured to the lake on bikes is critically important in their disappearance, yet it is one of the points where the family cannot agree. I am wondering if they cannot agree because at least one parent wants to give the impression of perfect children and perfect parenting where no child is ever unsupervised.

I'm on a tangent from your post ... but your post has me wondering about this.

 

[otto]

I think maybe the man in the video meant that the field he was walking in was private property, not the park itself?

The local that made the video went to an area that does not match the crime scene photos.

 

[cindersoot]

The family says they have never biked that far before.

Even if they had been there before, how was he to know that was their destination this time? They could just have easily have been going to a friends house, yet he still took the risk of driving ahead of them and waiting at the lake on the offchance that was their destination that day under the "stalker" theory.

He took a very big risk for a very uncertain result if he didn't already know they were going to be at the lake, I believe.

I honestly believe the girls died on 13 July, the same day they were taken.

A sexual predator with 2 little girls would most likely keep them for longer than one afternoon, and have somewhere to take them and keep them a bit less public than 7 bridges. Even rock spiders have friends who own houses and like to share.

By the way I found a youtube clip of the area they were found, it is very gloomy and out of the way. It is also on private land, has a house within easy walking distance, and is completely accessible by ordinary car because it is kept mowed right up to where the woods begin so someone could easily have driven right up then walked the girls in or possibly even carried them although this seems unlikely as the undergrowth in the wooded area was very high at the time.

The parents said the girls never bike that far, yet Mr. Carpenter stated that he saw them ride past his house on many occasions. Remember when you were a kid, did you ever go against your parents rules? Besides, the lake really isn't that far from Collins house.

 

[Squeeze]

Well apparently they started the construction of the park (clearing the island) last week, assuming before we got a foot of snow! Sounds like progress is being made, and the family is very pleased. Ill drive by today and take some pictures.

 

[cindersoot]

7-Bridges is on private land? That's news to me. I thought this was a wildlife refuge or a county park. I agree it was easily accessible, but never knew it was private land.

It isn't private land. Where the heck did that come from??:waitasec:

 

[otto]

The parents said the girls never bike that far, yet Mr. Carpenter stated that he saw them ride past his house on many occasions. Remember when you were a kid, did you ever go against your parents rules? Besides, the lake really isn't that far from Collins house.

Initially, I was inclined to believe that the parents knew exactly what their children were doing when the parents were busy, but today, I'm inclined to believe that the children, in particular Elizabeth, did ride their bikes to the Meyers Lake area often. The lawn watering man said that he regularly saw Elizabeth and that he often spoke with her. We know that Elizabeth had cycled to the lake with friends, and it's quite possible that Elizabeth wanted to take Lyric there too.

Since police have included the 12:30-1:00 time, where the children were at Elmer/Gilbert/Arbutus, I assume that police have verified (by interviewing others in the area) that Elizabeth was a frequent visitor to the area.

I think it's possible that the parents that claimed that the children never cycled to the lake were, in part, wanting to prevent any speculation that the children were often unsupervised and doing things without the parent's knowledge.

 

[cindersoot]

I think maybe the man in the video meant that the field he was walking in was private property, not the park itself?

He was walking on the end row. A part of the field that belongs to the farm he pointed out. The end row butts up to the park. The end row is private property, the park is not.:twocents:

 

[otto]

Well apparently they started the construction of the park (clearing the island) last week, assuming before we got a foot of snow! Sounds like progress is being made, and the family is very pleased. Ill drive by today and take some pictures.

I look forward to seeing photos!

I'm really curious about what is happening there. Are there any publically available plans that were drawn up for this public park renovation, or has the city simply handed the park over to the family to do with as they please. I'm wondering because I've never heard of a public park renovation that was not first presented with plans and that went through a public response process where people that would be impacted (those that have property at the lake) could offer feedback. It seems so rushed.

I'm also wondering about the wisdom of memorializing the most horrifying day in the children's lives. It's not like the park was a favorite spot for the children. From what we've heard, they weren't supposed to be there. When the family went to a lake, they went to a different lake. Although I had a different opinion last time this was discussed, I now view this more along the lines of setting up a memorial in a rather unusual location.

If the gazebo is being built on the Island, it is completely inaccessible except by boat. I recall reading that a road would be built to the Island ... why not a pedestrian bridge? A road would result in still water where all sorts of unpleasant things would grow.

 

[cindersoot]

Initially, I was inclined to believe that the parents knew exactly what their children were doing when the parents were busy, but today, I'm inclined to believe that the children, in particular Elizabeth, did ride their bikes to the Meyers Lake area often. The lawn watering man said that he regularly saw Elizabeth and that he often spoke with her. We know that Elizabeth had cycled to the lake with friends, and it's quite possible that Elizabeth wanted to take Lyric there too.

Since police have included the 12:30-1:00 time, where the children were at Elmer/Gilbert/Arbutus, I assume that police have verified (by interviewing others in the area) that Elizabeth was a frequent visitor to the area.

I think it's possible that the parents that claimed that the children never cycled to the lake were, in part, wanting to prevent any speculation that the children were often unsupervised and doing things without the parent's knowledge.

I agree, I think the parents didn't want to look like they let the kids wander off too far.

 

[cindersoot]

I look forward to seeing photos!

I'm really curious about what is happening there. Are there any publically available plans that were drawn up for this public park renovation, or has the city simply handed the park over to the family to do with as they please. I'm wondering because I've never heard of a public park renovation that was not first presented with plans and that went through a public response process where people that would be impacted (those that have property at the lake) could offer feedback. It seems so rushed.

I'm also wondering about the wisdom of memorializing the most horrifying day in the children's lives. It's not like the park was a favorite spot for the children. From what we've heard, they weren't supposed to be there. When the family went to a lake, they went to a different lake. Although I had a different opinion last time this was discussed, I now view this more along the lines of setting up a memorial in a rather unusual location.

If the gazebo is being built on the Island, it is completely inaccessible except by boat. I recall reading that a road would be built to the Island ... why not a pedestrian bridge? A road would result in still water where all sorts of unpleasant things would grow.

I can kinda understand that the community is putting their pain and frustration into something good like the gazebo. But what I can't understand is the fast pace to get it up. I mean it's winter for crying out loud.

 

[otto]

I agree, I think the parents didn't want to look like they let the kids wander off too far.

I think so too, but omitting information - like denying the fact that Elizabeth often cycled to Lake Avenue and Meyers Lake, creates major problems for police when trying to understand the activities of the children on the day they were abducted.

 

[otto]

I can kinda understand that the community is putting their pain and frustration into something good like the gazebo. But what I can't understand is the fast pace to get it up. I mean it's winter for crying out loud.

It reminds me of a huge boulder that's crashing down a mountain side. I get the impression that the whole process is rushed, but there's no need to rush anything and, in fact, a methodical approach would be much better.

I wonder if the parents have all had counselling to help deal with their grief. Running full steam ahead in building a gazebo on an Island that is inaccessible by foot makes no sense ... if they want to build a bridge, or a road, why not build that first, if only to make it much easier to get the building materials to the Island. Nothing about this seems methodical, logical or sensible ... to me ... which is in part why I'm wondering whether city council is in charge, or if they've simply handed the park to a grieving family and said that they can do whatever they want.

The park renovation strikes me as re-acting rather than acting. Where are the plans? Where is the budget? Where is the schedule? Where is the opportunity for public feedback on the proposed changes? I searched the Evansdale city council planning minutes and parks minutes ... all I see are approvals on renaming the park.