IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #29

[Marilynilpa]

My thoughts on the possible perp:
Born and raised in the Evansdale area and still has family there.
In his mid-thirties.
A definite loner and incapable of sustaining a relationship with a woman who is around his age.
A transient now who passes through the Evansdale area maybe a couple times a year for a short visit with his family.
Sustains himself with day jobs during his ramblins so he doesn't have a documented work history. Kind of off the radar.
Possibly has an older van which he uses for transportation and as a place to sleep.
Could have been at Meyers Lake to use the bathroom facilities and saw the girls and took them.
Familiar with 7 Bridges because he went there when he was younger. Might also camp there when he is around Evansdale area.
Don't think this is his first crime of this nature--not necessarily killed before, just assault. Don't think he has been caught by LE before so he is not in any database due to his rambling.
His family does not suspect him because he really doesn't spend that much time around them for them to really know much about him. Maybe immediate family is deceased and other family members don't know him that well.
Think he may be familiar with one of Lyric or Elizabeth's family members.
I think he will do it again but maybe not in the Evansdale area.

Thanks for your post - you bring up some good points, IMO. Especially about his family not really knowing much about him. But I feel his immediate family may still be alive, but there is some estrangement between them. Maybe because of his past behavior, or just because he rambles around and never stays in touch.:waitasec:

I also think he may be familiar with one or more of the girls' family members. I don't know if he's a close friend, or just part of their social/church circle, but there's some type of relationship there. JMO.

 

[otto]

I've been re-reading transcripts and looking for little bits of info I've overlooked. I found this statement from Wylma that I found interesting:

And so it was at 11:30, they asked me if they could go for a short bike ride, and I said yes. And they've done this millions of times. And they've never, never went that far. I could go outside and yell their names, and they would eventually hear me.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1207/17/ng.01.html

BBM

The word "eventually" caught my attention. If the girls were always riding so close to home, it seems they would hear Grandma calling pretty quickly. They wouldn't "eventually" hear her, in others words.

But if Grandma yells their names and the girls "eventually" hear her, IMO it could mean the girls routinely biked outside of their approved area. If they were several blocks away biking towards Lizzie's house, it might take two or three of Grandma's name yellings before they "eventually" heard her.

I'm probably reading too much into one word, but at least it gives me something different to think about.

ETA: Of course, it's always possible the girls just ignored the first couple of calls from Grandma in an effort to stay out a couple of minutes longer. It's been known to happen!!

I think you make a good point. The girls went out at 11:30, Wylma last saw them cycling towards the shopping center and she went out to look for them at about 12:30. Given police statements, I am inclined to believe that they cycled to the lake. Given Mr Carpenter's statements, I'm inclined to believe that Elizabeth often cycled to Lake Avenue.

I also wonder if there was some reluctance to publicly admit that the children cycled up to a mile away often ... as some people may be judgmental ... but it was a small, safe town ... so two children cycling to the lake and back on a warm summer day was probably viewed as perfectly normal.

 

[sreshowtime]

I am still fixated I guess you could say, on the thought of someone in a home near the park having 'lured' the girls to come with them to their home.

And maybe they still live there.
After all the girls took bike rides around 'millions of times'
I don't know that it was planned to the nth degree, but it was thought of and then it was able to happen.
It just bothers me , the thought that a sicko could still be around there.

 

[cindersoot]

If it were not for Mr. Carpenters statement that he witnessed the girls riding their bikes past his house on many occasions, I would think it to be odd that they rode that far after what grandma said. But really, after riding that neighborhood and area myself it really isn't that far.

 

[cindersoot]

At first I also thought it could be someone who lives at the lake. But I feel confident that LE has entertained that thought themselves and have investigated the homes around the area well.

 

[sreshowtime]

But did LE go in those homes, or a cursory knock at the door? What about homes that no one was home? It was a Friday afternoon, what if someone 'left' for a weekend getaway or vacation?
It may have been mentioned before, but do those homes have basements? Or storm cellars?

 

[pearl]

Dogs followed the scent trail to the water's edge if I remember correctly. If LE used dogs in the neighborhood canvass of the lake homes, could the dogs have alerted if they found the girls' scent at a house? This doesn't mean followed the scent trail from the lake to a house but pick up the scent if the girls had been in one of the houses?

 

[threecrazykids]

I also have been re-reading transcripts and it's all the little things that seem to be popping out at me now, as well.

I noticed a comment in this interview that kind of made me wonder if Tammy did know about the girls going to the lake (since she was the one who immediately said "take me to Meyer's Lake".)

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1207/16/acd.01.html

MORRISSEY: From my understanding, they do not know the area. Maybe Elizabeth and some friends had ridden down there at one time --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: One time.

Aunt Tammy is the "unidentified female" in this interview.

Misty comments that maybe ELIZABETH and friends had ridden down there at one time.
I found it kind of odd Tammy confirms with saying "one time".


Then she seems to almost backtrack and 3 times in a row comment that "they'd never go that far".

I just don't comprehend why this family immediately took off in their search all the way to Elk Run, and even Meyer's Lake (which isn't that far, really...)if the girls didn't go further than a couple blocks.

It just surprises me they would look that far out, and be searching for an hour and not cross paths with the girls. But, if they took the nature trail, they wouldn't be on the roads for Grandma to see either, I guess. :waitasec:

I just can't fathom how the timing of all of this fell so perfectly into place for these 2 little girls. It's almost SO coincidental it's unbelievable.

 

[SpringThyme]

I, too, think about this case every day. I only wish I had more to add to the discussion. I think it seems personal in a way for a couple of reasons. First my 6 year old is not much younger than th girls. Second, at age 14, a man tried to grab me and force me to go with him on a bike path near a creek. He just suddenly came out of a treed area. In my panic, I made a huge fuss and he left. It was not a particularly isolated spot but not crowded either. My 14 year friend who had gotten separated from me, would have been just as helpless and terrified if we had been together. I am so fortunate, but I did not come away unscathed. I have had to battle huge anxiety about getting lost in new locations. I did not tell my parents (though they would not have been alarmed in that era to know I was on the bike path.) Was he lurking and waiting for a victim or did he just see an opportunity and act impulsively? I have no idea. It can all happen in a blink of an eye though.

 

[threecrazykids]

http://www.kcrg.com/news/local/Chil...d-in-Memory-of-Black-Hawk-County-Cousins.html

 

[jenandemmie]

It could have been both "planned" and "random" at the same time. The person(s) could have planned what they would do if they randomly found a victim, or in this case, two victims. I think most non-familial child abductions are a result of chance encounters. The method, means and dump site could be chosen ahead of time and then they just waited for an opportunity. Fantasy and planning are textbook traits of the sadistic child predator. That's what they do. That's why they are so...elusive and terrifying.

 

[NWLady]

Here in Iowa braces go in your mouth. I said suspenders, that hold up your pants.

:floorlaugh::great::woohoo::laugh::yourock::floorlaugh::rocker:

 

[SpringThyme]

It could have been both "planned" and "random" at the same time. The person(s) could have planned what they would do if they randomly found a victim, or in this case, two victims. I think most non-familial child abductions are a result of chance encounters. The method, means and dump site could be chosen ahead of time and then they just waited for an opportunity. Fantasy and planning are textbook traits of the sadistic child predator. That's what they do. That's why they are so...elusive and terrifying.

Yes, I totally agree. I think there is also some reason the perp would have the confidence to take 2 girls. Extensive fantasizing, experience controlling children, a weapon, highly familiar with the area, trusted by the girls are all possibilities, IMO.

 

[alliemay]

http://www.dps.state.ia.us/mpic/bulletin/2012/Aug12Bulletin.pdf
Wish this was in alphabetical order.

 

[Marilynilpa]

http://www.dps.state.ia.us/mpic/bulletin/2012/Aug12Bulletin.pdf
Wish this was in alphabetical order.

Thanks for that bulletin.

Here's an article from September of last year listing the children who are missing from Black Hawk County:

http://cedarfalls.patch.com/articles/cedar-falls-and-black-hawk-county-s-missing-kids#photo-11204091

I noticed there are two sisters on this list who went missing on June 9, 2012:

Karina Duran, age 13. Reported missing to the Black Hawk Co. Communication Center (319-291-2587), in Waterloo on June 9, 2012. She may be with her sister Brenda. Weight: 110 lbs., Height: 5'03", Race: White, Hair: Black, Eyes: Brown, Sex: Female.

Brenda A. Duran, 15. Reported missing to the Black Hawk Co. Communication Center (319-291-2587), in Waterloo on June 9, 2012. She may be with her sister Karina. Weight: 195 lbs., Height: 5'07", Race: White, Hair: Black, Eyes: Brown, Sex: Female.

I guess it is assumed the girls ran away together. However, on the January 2013 Missing Persons Bulletin, only the 13 year old girl is still listed as missing.

http://www.dps.state.ia.us/mpic/bulletin/2013/Jan13Bulletin.pdf

Do any of you locals recall hearing about these girls?

 

[otto]

I also have been re-reading transcripts and it's all the little things that seem to be popping out at me now, as well.

I noticed a comment in this interview that kind of made me wonder if Tammy did know about the girls going to the lake (since she was the one who immediately said "take me to Meyer's Lake".)

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1207/16/acd.01.html

MORRISSEY: From my understanding, they do not know the area. Maybe Elizabeth and some friends had ridden down there at one time --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: One time.

Aunt Tammy is the "unidentified female" in this interview.

Misty comments that maybe ELIZABETH and friends had ridden down there at one time.
I found it kind of odd Tammy confirms with saying "one time".


Then she seems to almost backtrack and 3 times in a row comment that "they'd never go that far".

I just don't comprehend why this family immediately took off in their search all the way to Elk Run, and even Meyer's Lake (which isn't that far, really...)if the girls didn't go further than a couple blocks.

It just surprises me they would look that far out, and be searching for an hour and not cross paths with the girls. But, if they took the nature trail, they wouldn't be on the roads for Grandma to see either, I guess. :waitasec:

I just can't fathom how the timing of all of this fell so perfectly into place for these 2 little girls. It's almost SO coincidental it's unbelievable.

So ... Dan says that Elizabeth went to the lake with friends one time, Tammy points out that it only happened once, Msty also says that it only happened once ... no comment from Heather about her daughter cycling to the lake?

The "one time" remark again suggests to me that the family doesn't want anyone to get the idea that the children often cycled up to a mile away from home ... and there could be many reasons for that.

 

[Wondergirl]

Again, I am speaking of the abductor who "stalked" the girls. He would have no way of knowing they would head to the lake, they'd never been there before.

Two girls on a bike can arguably get places quicker than a car can at times, yet somehow he managed to not only predict in his head that that's where they were headed, he also managed to get there before them? Not likely.

A random perp could literally sit there for a month of Sundays and NEVER entrap a child. Most children these days are accompanied by parents. If he did sit there, he sat there for a while and took a massive risk of being observed.

So why didn't anyone see his car?

If he did trap the girls as it appears, why was there no sign of a struggle?

Then we go to the "he held a knife at someone's throat" explanation - this still doesn't address why his car was never seen.

The statistical likliehood of a predator waiting in some bushes in a public park used more often by adults, for a child victim for only a few minutes before two of them come along, is really out there.

The statistical likliehood of a random creeper waiting in a public park for a child victim and then abducting TWO of them without being seen or heard, is also extremely dim.

A one off, random abductor would take one child in my opinion.

He would be in a place where children are often alone, such as a playground, a school, a popular hang out.

Meyers Lake is none of these.

If he took them at Maiden Lane, it means he took the time to move and rearrange the bikes and purse. What was the point of doing this? A random would grab his prey and get out of Dodge. Staging implies that the crime is being portrayed as something other than what it was.

:cow: :seeya:

This is an outstanding post, thank-you.

 

[cindersoot]

KWWL reports today that an organization is giving out free child ID kits. The heading reads, ( Free child ID kits given in memory of the missing cousins). In my honest opinion it should say, " Free child ID kits given in memory of the MURDERED cousins." It's too sugar coated for my taste.

 

[rachaellouise]

Why why why hasn't any details on the deaths (aka COD) been released?!

 

[threecrazykids]

So ... Dan says that Elizabeth went to the lake with friends one time, Tammy points out that it only happened once, Msty also says that it only happened once ... no comment from Heather about her daughter cycling to the lake?

The "one time" remark again suggests to me that the family doesn't want anyone to get the idea that the children often cycled up to a mile away from home ... and there could be many reasons for that.

I should have clarified in the transcript...it's actually Misty and Tammy in the interview, they just didn't (on this one) call her by Cook-Morrissey. So, Dan isn't in this interview. No biggie, I just thought I should clarify.

However, I agree with you 100%. I think these girls ventured off a whole lot more than what the parents and caregivers ever knew (or want to admit, take your pick).

And to be honest, in reading a lot of the transcripts again, I noticed Misty saying "I don't know, I don't think so" A LOT in the interviews. I think because Wylma had Lyric so often, Misty truly didn't know what Lyric did when she was either working, at the treatment facility, etc...and that is to be expected. I'm not holding her at fault...it is what it is, she didn't have guardianship of her and wasn't responsible for her so she probably didn't know what Lyric did when she was with Grandma.

Heather nor Drew commented on anything at all it appears in the first few days. Does anyone have any links to interviews with them during those first days? I have easily been able to find interviews with Misty, Dan, Tammy, Wylma, and even Vicki (Dan's Mom) but can't find any with Heather and Drew.

But I do think they did a lot more adventuring than we and their parents are/were aware of.