IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #29

[tlcya]

I agree the wording in the IDentikit thing is somewhat "sugarcoated" but I can't be mad at em. You are wanting people to bring their kids and get this done. Mommies don't want to explain murder to their little ones and the grown ups all know the missing cousins were murdered.

OT note to Wondergirl, I notice your siggy line. Just wanted you to know that Kubina was finally sentenced. She was given 35 years. Riley we know, got 80. Rest in Peace Christian

 

[cindersoot]

Why why why hasn't any details on the deaths (aka COD) been released?!

Is that odd for them not to release that info? I mean do they usually in other cases? I find this case very strange because nothing is released, nothing.:what:

 

[roseofsharon]

Was it ever known if Lizzie's phone (games only) was still in her purse when it was found?

When various family members went to Meyer's Lake to look for the girls, why didn't a family member spot the bikes before the fireman found the bikes?

I thought HC reported the girls missing the in the later afternoon.

Were the girls reported missing after the family checked the lake?

Just wondering why the bikes were not spotted at that time.

IMO

 

[carbuff]

Is that odd for them not to release that info? I mean do they usually in other cases? I find this case very strange because nothing is released, nothing.:what:

No, not at all unusual. In fact, I'd say that probably the majority of cases I've paid attention to, the cause of death wasn't released until somebody was officially charged, or sometimes not until the trial. Likewise with other critical information.

 

[jenandemmie]

Was it ever known if Lizzie's phone (games only) was still in her purse when it was found?

When various family members went to Meyer's Lake to look for the girls, why didn't a family member spot the bikes before the fireman found the bikes?

I thought HC reported the girls missing the in the later afternoon.

Were the girls reported missing after the family checked the lake?

Just wondering why the bikes were not spotted at that time.

IMO

If I put myself in their shoes, at this time I might not have been thinking abduction. I would go to the lake, yell out, ask those around if they had seen them, and wait a little while for them to ride out from around the back of the lake. In other words, if I knew they were on bikes, I would think they would either ride back around any minute if they were on the other side, or, if off the bikes and stationary, say, playing in the dirt or looking at a weird bug, they would hear me calling. I don't think it would have occurred to me that I might find something/the bikes/purse/cell without the girls. And to be frank, Wilma is older and Tammy isn't in the best shape either so I might not expect them to go walking around the lake looking for girls who had transportation(bikes) and were, if there, within earshot of a loud momma-type kind of yell.

 

[cindersoot]

Was it ever known if Lizzie's phone (games only) was still in her purse when it was found?

When various family members went to Meyer's Lake to look for the girls, why didn't a family member spot the bikes before the fireman found the bikes?

I thought HC reported the girls missing the in the later afternoon.

Were the girls reported missing after the family checked the lake?

Just wondering why the bikes were not spotted at that time.

IMO

They might not of spotted the bikes because if your at the front, the parking lot and looking towards where the bikes were found you would not of seen them. They would of had to walk to that area.

 

[otto]

I should have clarified in the transcript...it's actually Misty and Tammy in the interview, they just didn't (on this one) call her by Cook-Morrissey. So, Dan isn't in this interview. No biggie, I just thought I should clarify.

However, I agree with you 100%. I think these girls ventured off a whole lot more than what the parents and caregivers ever knew (or want to admit, take your pick).

And to be honest, in reading a lot of the transcripts again, I noticed Misty saying "I don't know, I don't think so" A LOT in the interviews. I think because Wylma had Lyric so often, Misty truly didn't know what Lyric did when she was either working, at the treatment facility, etc...and that is to be expected. I'm not holding her at fault...it is what it is, she didn't have guardianship of her and wasn't responsible for her so she probably didn't know what Lyric did when she was with Grandma.

Heather nor Drew commented on anything at all it appears in the first few days. Does anyone have any links to interviews with them during those first days? I have easily been able to find interviews with Misty, Dan, Tammy, Wylma, and even Vicki (Dan's Mom) but can't find any with Heather and Drew.

But I do think they did a lot more adventuring than we and their parents are/were aware of.

Thanks. You make a good point about Tammy and Misty. They are both making claims about what the children normally did, but Wylma, Heather and Drew were the custodial parents of Lyric and Elizabeth and they would be in the best position to answer questions about what the children normally did. Wylma, Heather and Drew may have been aware of the children cycling to the lake ... and they certainly would know if the children were on their own enough to cycle there and back regularly.

 

[otto]

Is that odd for them not to release that info? I mean do they usually in other cases? I find this case very strange because nothing is released, nothing.:what:

Cause of death is one of the facts that is often held back because it is something that only the perp knows. Cause of death comes out during trial. Another example is Karen Swift. She was murdered on Halloween 2011 and the cause of death has not been released.

It's not uncommon for investigators to withhold facts that can only be known by the perp during an active investigation.

 

[roseofsharon]

If I put myself in their shoes, at this time I might not have been thinking abduction. I would go to the lake, yell out, ask those around if they had seen them, and wait a little while for them to ride out from around the back of the lake. In other words, if I knew they were on bikes, I would think they would either ride back around any minute if they were on the other side, or, if off the bikes and stationary, say, playing in the dirt or looking at a weird bug, they would hear me calling. I don't think it would have occurred to me that I might find something/the bikes/purse/cell without the girls. And to be frank, Wilma is older and Tammy isn't in the best shape either so I might not expect them to go walking around the lake looking for girls who had transportation(bikes) and were, if there, within earshot of a loud momma-type kind of yell.

Good points. I guess I was thinking of L's brother maybe taking his own bike around the lake to look for the girls. I think he was at L's home with WC that day, but not positive. imo

 

[otto]

Was it ever known if Lizzie's phone (games only) was still in her purse when it was found?

When various family members went to Meyer's Lake to look for the girls, why didn't a family member spot the bikes before the fireman found the bikes?

I thought HC reported the girls missing the in the later afternoon.

Were the girls reported missing after the family checked the lake?

Just wondering why the bikes were not spotted at that time.

IMO

I remember the first report about the purse and it was said that the phone was a short distance from the purse - I had the impression that it was about a foot away. Later reports did not mention the phone being out of the purse. The purse was found 10 feet East of the bikes and a couple of feet away from the fence on the lake side of the fence.

It sounds like the family went to the Meyers Lake parking lot and asked people if they had seen two girls cycling. Police started their search there, perhaps because of information that two girls were seen cycling there. It is impossible to see the drainage gate (where the bikes were parked) from the parking lot. A volunteer firefighter walked the trail around the lake and discovered the bikes.

Heather reported the children missing around 2-3 PM. Statistically speaking, it is normal to have a 2 hour gap between when the children were last seen and when they are reported missing.

Evidently the family checked the lake at the parking lot and playground, but not the trail that goes around the lake.

 

[cindersoot]

I wish we knew what else was in the purse. It could be clues to what she was planning for the day.

 

[otto]

Good points. I guess I was thinking of L's brother maybe taking his own bike around the lake to look for the girls. I think he was at L's home with WC that day, but not positive. imo

I think that Lyric's older brother was visiting Dan at his mother's house. He probably stayed there while Dan met Misty to look for the girls. I'm sure they first assumed that the children had gotten into mischief at the lake and that it wasn't serious. Even if Lyric's older brother was at the lake that afternoon, he probably stayed with the family group and waited for police to arrive.

 

[otto]

I wish we knew what else was in the purse. It could be clues to what she was planning for the day.

According to Heather, Elizabeth was a girly girly that loved nail polish, makeup, doing her hair and carrying a purse. It's quite possible that Elizabeth had her purse with her to carry her phone (911 capability) and pocket money for candy.

 

[cindersoot]

Thanks for that bulletin.

Here's an article from September of last year listing the children who are missing from Black Hawk County:

http://cedarfalls.patch.com/articles/cedar-falls-and-black-hawk-county-s-missing-kids#photo-11204091

I noticed there are two sisters on this list who went missing on June 9, 2012:

Karina Duran, age 13. Reported missing to the Black Hawk Co. Communication Center (319-291-2587), in Waterloo on June 9, 2012. She may be with her sister Brenda. Weight: 110 lbs., Height: 5'03", Race: White, Hair: Black, Eyes: Brown, Sex: Female.

Brenda A. Duran, 15. Reported missing to the Black Hawk Co. Communication Center (319-291-2587), in Waterloo on June 9, 2012. She may be with her sister Karina. Weight: 195 lbs., Height: 5'07", Race: White, Hair: Black, Eyes: Brown, Sex: Female.

I guess it is assumed the girls ran away together. However, on the January 2013 Missing Persons Bulletin, only the 13 year old girl is still listed as missing.

http://www.dps.state.ia.us/mpic/bulletin/2013/Jan13Bulletin.pdf

Do any of you locals recall hearing about these girls?

No, didn't know a thing about this one.:what:

 

[roseofsharon]

I think that Lyric's older brother was visiting Dan at his mother's house. He probably stayed there while Dan met Misty to look for the girls. I'm sure they first assumed that the children had gotten into mischief at the lake and that it wasn't serious. Even if Lyric's older brother was at the lake that afternoon, he probably stayed with the family group and waited for police to arrive.

Oops, sorry about that, I meant E's older brother.:blushing:

 

[cindersoot]

Look at this list something is terribly terribly wrong!! Watch the dates.

Iowa Missing Children 17 cases in Black Hawk county Iowa--

Eriwovan Winford, age 8, reported missing August,30 2012.

Kunickshal Robinson, age 15, reported missing August, 23 2012.

Dalton L. Nalley, age 17, reported missing August 20, 2012.

Amber Miller, age 16, reported missing August 02,2012

Shakur D Todd-Ellis, age 14, reported missing July 28, 2012

Chavon L. Banks, age 16 reported missing July 14,2012

Elizabeth Collins, age 9 reported missing July 13,2012

Lyric Cook, age 10 reported missing July 13,2012

Montajia Mitchell, age 17 reported missing June 24,2012

Crystal Silva age 14 reported missing June,15 2012

Karina Duran age 13 reported missing June 9, 2012
Brenda Duran age 15 reported missing June 9, 2012

Isaiah Turney age 16 reported missing June 5,2012

Jjuanna Williams age 14 reported missing May 30,2012

 

[otto]

Oops, sorry about that, I meant E's older brother.:blushing:

Thx ... he wasn't that much older than Elizabeth. If I had two children missing, the last thing I would do is send another child to look for them.

 

[otto]

Look at this list something is terribly terribly wrong!! Watch the dates.

Iowa Missing Children 17 cases in Black Hawk county Iowa--

Eriwovan Winford, age 8, reported missing August,30 2012.

Kunickshal Robinson, age 15, reported missing August, 23 2012.

Dalton L. Nalley, age 17, reported missing August 20, 2012.

Amber Miller, age 16, reported missing August 02,2012

Shakur D Todd-Ellis, age 14, reported missing July 28, 2012

Chavon L. Banks, age 16 reported missing July 14,2012

Elizabeth Collins, age 9 reported missing July 13,2012

Lyric Cook, age 10 reported missing July 13,2012

Montajia Mitchell, age 17 reported missing June 24,2012

Crystal Silva age 14 reported missing June,15 2012

Karina Duran age 13 reported missing June 9, 2012
Brenda Duran age 15 reported missing June 9, 2012

Isaiah Turney age 16 reported missing June 5,2012

Jjuanna Williams age 14 reported missing May 30,2012

When that list of missing children was first posted here, I looked into a couple of the cases. In some cases, the children were chronic runaways and had been found. The circumstances of each case were different. The list was not enough to conclude that children were vanishing off the streets.

Of the missing person's cases, do any of them seem to have a similarity to this case?

 

[cindersoot]

When that list of missing children was first posted here, I looked into a couple of the cases. In some cases, the children were chronic runaways and had been found. The circumstances of each case were different. The list was not enough to conclude that children were vanishing off the streets.

Of the missing person's cases, do any of them seem to have a similarity to this case?

I don't know, I tryed investigating further and came to a road block.

 

[otto]

I don't know, I tryed investigating further and came to a road block.

One of the roadblocks is that is very little information about the missing persons ... custody disputes, runaways and cases like this are all grouped together. Clearly the case of Elizabeth and Lyric was treated differently from the beginning.