IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #29

[Bootsctr]

I recently watched a show about a true crime that went unsolved for 30 plus years.

The only reason it was solved is that someone stated one of the girls was shot in the face.

This detail was never released so 30 years later it led directly to an arrest and conviction.

I think I saw that show too. 30 years is a long time to wait for an arrest and conviction. . . :waiting: :HHJP:

 

[daisynae]

Sorry Daisy, I read that back and realized it sounded alot snarkier than it did in my head. No way did I mean to upset you. He upsets me because it seems as if the more people gave him attention the more his postings ratcheted up.

Awwe Girl No biggie we all gett a little bugged with this case and
I am so livid with this "Poet"
I just want the police to check him out.
or have Kent Smock come out and say he has been cleared
If he can do that about the RSO he can sure as hell come out and
say something about this guy who is writing about Killing his Mother.
rapping and killing young girls.ect.

 

[SapphireSteel]

I've heard of this happening in the past and it simply amazes me. The same type of situation happened here in Iowa with Casey Fredrickson in the Evelyn Miller case. He had made a comment in jail about something only LE knew and it caused his arrest.

How can this possibly stand up in court though? How can a case be tried and convicted on that? I mean there are only so many ways a person can kill another...with shooting, stabbing, strangulation, drugging being probably the top 4. If they randomly say "yeah, they were shot"...and they HAPPEN to be right, how does that prove they were guilty?

I completely get what you're saying...I just don't know how they can honestly convict someone on something they said. And if that piece of information gets thrown out on a technicality (say it was illegally obtained) then what?

I don't know why, but for some reason the "they said something only LE knew" card just chaps my behind.

Now, if they go into DETAIL about how they were killed, that is different...but just saying "the girls were shot" is probably the most vague comment and I can't believe they actually would arrest someone on that...but hey, weirder things have happened I suppose.

The case I was referring to - it was public knowledge that the girls were shot.

What wasn't made public is that one of them was shot in the face.

The only person who could possibly know that (apart from LE) was the murderer.

LE work with little inconsequential snippets and inconsistencies all the time. They are trained to look for them.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

Jessica Ridgeway
Jonbenet Ramsey
Jillian Meagher
Zodiac
BTK
Green River Killer

I could go on...

LE never actively released much in JBR's case. Most information was leaked. But they rarely had press conferences or sent our press releases that said "This is what we know". (I'm pretty sure).

The only other case I followed from your list is Jessica Ridgeway, and we know in that case, she was killed by a stranger, so LE had to warn the community. And 3 more cases from your list are serial killers, also having to warn the community.

 

[Aymstriss]

O/T

http://wcfcourier.com/news/local/ma...cle_e96200a8-217a-5bc4-ad5d-01c2573694f0.html

 

[SapphireSteel]

LE never actively released much in JBR's case. Most information was leaked. But they rarely had press conferences or sent our press releases that said "This is what we know". (I'm pretty sure).

The only other case I followed from your list is Jessica Ridgeway, and we know in that case, she was killed by a stranger, so LE had to warn the community. And 3 more cases from your list are serial killers, also having to warn the community.

I'm not quite sure what your point is.

Are you saying BECAUSE nothing has been released, it's NOT a random or a serial killer?

No one knew about Sigg until AFTER the information was released...no one knows about serial killers until AFTER they are caught....?

:waitasec:

 

[otto]

Can anyone think of a murder investigation (not missing person case) where LE actively released information about the case to the media/public? Not ones where the media found out information through Sunshine laws or leaks...

You are absolutely right. Police release information during an investigation for one reason, and only one reason: to obtain more information. In the Ridgeway case, the necklace evidence photo was released to the media for the purpose of identifying the owner. Police had their sites on Austin Sigg well before the arrest, but they did not release that to the public. The cause of death was not released to the public and the only way that we know that Jessica's body was dismembered in his basement is because that information was released for the purpose of court proceedings.

It is not in the job description of police to satisfy public curiosity about active investigations ... and, as police have stated, it could be detrimental to the investigation to release investigative information prior to an arrest.

People that have nothing to do with the case can complain about not knowing what's going on with the investigation all they want, but it's nothing more than complaining about a fact of life.

 

[iamnotagolem]

I can't imagine a life insurance policy on a kid costing very much, nor paying very much. Most places only allow around $5000/per child in order to cover funeral expenses. Life insurance policies are to help replace the income of the deceased. Obviously children have no income and no need for a hefty life insurance policy. If there was a substantial life Insurance I am sure we would have heard about it by now.

An insurance policy on a child would be super cheap. I think mine is $17/mo for $250k policy. If the plan was to put a life insurance policy on a kid then kill them, Im sure they could budget it in.

Seems a little far fetched.

 

[cindersoot]

LE keeps saying they won't release any info because it's info only the killer would know. Question is, what info would be that secret that only the killer would know? Something to talk about anyway.....

 

[cindersoot]

A life insurance policy on a healthy child would not bring much.

 

[Marilynilpa]

Jessica Ridgeway
Jonbenet Ramsey
Jillian Meagher
Zodiac
BTK
Green River Killer

I could go on...

Can you identify any cases where a person is abducted and later found dead, where LE in the U.S. actively released information about the murder investigation?

I don't mean serial killers like BTK or Zodiac who sought public attention, or the Green River Killer, who was an ongoing threat to the community. It was a matter of public safety for LE to frequently advise the public of their investigations of these types of known serial killers.

JonBenet - well, that was botched from the beginning.:banghead: I tend to think her case is not analogous to this case simply because the notoriety involved in the murder of the beauty-queen child of wealthy white parents in an affluent community necessitated LE to provide frequent updates. JMO.

Jessica Ridgeway - I think those of us who followed that case can't help but compare Evansdale PD to Westminster PD when it comes to the release of public information. But with Jessica, the body was found rather quickly. Austin Siggs confessed and was arrested less than a month after the crime. So there was a lot of new information to be released almost daily. Unfortunately, such is not the case with Lyric and Lizzie.

In our case, LE doesn't have much information to release. Apparently there is no evidence they need the public to identify, no surveillance video of a possible perp for us to view, no identified serial killer currently stalking the community. Unless a killer is arrested, IMO there won't be many updates from LE.

All comments are IMO, JMO, MOO, etc.

 

[threecrazykids]

LE keeps saying they won't release any info because it's info only the killer would know. Question is, what info would be that secret that only the killer would know? Something to talk about anyway.....

Cause of death would be the big one.

 

[Bootsctr]

I can't imagine a life insurance policy on a kid costing very much, nor paying very much. Most places only allow around $5000/per child in order to cover funeral expenses. Life insurance policies are to help replace the income of the deceased. Obviously children have no income and no need for a hefty life insurance policy. If there was a substantial life Insurance I am sure we would have heard about it by now.

An insurance policy on a child would be super cheap. I think mine is $17/mo for $250k policy. If the plan was to put a life insurance policy on a kid then kill them, Im sure they could budget it in.

Seems a little far fetched.

The maximum amount through my work for my son was $10,000.00 - enough for a nice funeral, nice head stone. Unfortunately, if your child is killed while breaking the law, a felony act, that negates the policy. :heartbeat: :candle: :sigh:

 

[Marilynilpa]

LE keeps saying they won't release any info because it's info only the killer would know. Question is, what info would be that secret that only the killer would know? Something to talk about anyway.....

Maybe the exact location and/or position of the bodies?

Cause of death/manner of death? If it were an unusual cause, for instance, only the killer would know that. To me, unusual would be anything other than blunt force, gunshot or strangulation. JMO.

Information about when the girls were killed, when they were placed at 7 Bridges, how the bodies were transported, etc.

I can't think of any others, but I'm sure there will be more ideas.

By the way, cinder, I admire the way you try to keep things on track.:rocker:

 

[Marilynilpa]

I'm not quite sure what your point is.

Are you saying BECAUSE nothing has been released, it's NOT a random or a serial killer?

No one knew about Sigg until AFTER the information was released...no one knows about serial killers until AFTER they are caught....?

:waitasec:

BBM

IMO most of the time LE knows that a serial killer is at large, even though they cannot identify a specific suspect. As examples: BTK; Zodiac; Green River Killer.

 

[cindersoot]

The Waterloo area has been having flood problems, I wonder if Seven Bridges is flooded out?

 

[pearl]

I don't think it is unusual for LE to not release the COD. I only actively follow one other case on WS and that is the Lauren Giddings case in Macon, GA. Lauren's COD hasn't been released either and there is a suspect in jail awaiting trial.
As for life insurance on children, some companies sell policies as investment opportunities. I had one for my child. Pay a sum up front like $5000 or $10,000 and make monthly premium payments. Pay 15-20 years on the policy then cash it in if it is not (hopefully) used for funeral expenses. Earn more than you would with traditional investments. Turn the money into a college fund when it is cashed in. Also, nontaxable as life insurance. I don't know if these type policies are still available. I bought the one I had about 24 years ago.

 

[Bootsctr]

In many ways we agree, I had posted earlier that it seems cases with "close to home" suspects do seem as they would be harder to prove. However with THIS family I have looked at it long and hard and I can't see a motive. Why would someone in the family kill both of the girls? I have never given much credence to the whole Dan/revenge plot, it just doesn't seem plausible imo. What on earth could they possible gain that would make the killing of two children a viable act? Maybe I am naive, but the killing of a child is against our strongest, most basic instincts. Maybe I just don't want to face that someone they loved would have killed them. But in the end it just doesn't seem plausible. My take on the apparent lack of DNA match is the opposite of yours, I think they have DNA but no one to match to or it non-recoverable.
I believe it is a simple case. Random and Impulse. I respect the opinions of all and sometimes I am just plain on the fence. With this case I always felt like it was random. Now, I could be eating some SERIOUS crow before too long, but alas, it wouldn't be the first time. If not for the Dan issue who else in the family do you think would do such a thing? And for what reason? I honestly am interested.

My fear is, LE believes quite possibly the girls' deaths are related to a serial killer. An unknown serial killer. They do have DNA, but as you say no matches. Perhaps they are taking deaths of other young females all over the country -maybe even Canada - with no-match DNA and trying to link the deaths that way. Scary to think about - a wandering serial killer unknown and not in the system. . .

The killer would know if the girls still had their clothes on. Identity was made first through the clothing, but we don't know if it was found near the remains or still on the bodies assuming this was a sexually-motivated crime, random and impulsive.

 

[cindersoot]

I went away from here for awhile and come back and we are talking about life insurance? That would be an assumption that the parents are involved and that issue has already been talked about and hopefully over. Once again IMO, if the parents were involved in any way this case would of been over with months ago.

 

[cindersoot]

My fear is, LE believes quite possibly the girls' deaths are related to a serial killer. An unknown serial killer. They do have DNA, but as you say no matches. Perhaps they are taking deaths of other young females all over the country -maybe even Canada - with no-match DNA and trying to link the deaths that way. Scary to think about - a wandering serial killer unknown and not in the system. . .

The killer would know if the girls still had their clothes on. Identity was made first through the clothing, but we don't know if it was found near the remains or still on the bodies assuming this was a sexually-motivated crime, random and impulsive.

Yes, yes and yes. I have thought about this also. So glad you brought it up.