IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #29

[cindersoot]

Re animals interfering with the remains -

It's possible but large animals such as cougars tend to not want carcass that is not fresh.

If they did have a chew at a body, they would not move it, but feast on it where it is. Even Lizzie's tiny frame would have been too much for a wild cat to move.

Once the larger predators finish with their meal, it's time for the smaller ones to jump on, like vultures and crows, and eventually insects.

These smaller predators are the ones responsible for bone scatter, and only once most of the "meat" is gone from a carcass. It is then light enough to detach and drag it away in pieces and back to burrows etc.

The two distinct spread out LARGE white sheets tend to suggest (to me at least) that the girls were intact.

:sick:

 

[cindersoot]

First time I've heard that!

Do you have a link?

Go back and watch the videos of when the girls were found.

 

[jn0920]

Re animals interfering with the remains -

It's possible but large animals such as cougars tend to not want carcass that is not fresh.

If they did have a chew at a body, they would not move it, but feast on it where it is. Even Lizzie's tiny frame would have been too much for a wild cat to move.

Once the larger predators finish with their meal, it's time for the smaller ones to jump on, like vultures and crows, and eventually insects.

These smaller predators are the ones responsible for bone scatter, and only once most of the "meat" is gone from a carcass. It is then light enough to detach and drag it away in pieces and back to burrows etc.

The two distinct spread out LARGE white sheets tend to suggest (to me at least) that the girls were intact.

Thank you for your information. So since smaller animals are the ones for dragging remains apart its highly unlikely since they most likely found the girls remains in one place due to the white sheet? I'm agreeing with the "run" theory more. Unless they weren't put there at the same time due to sexual preference? Or the killer carried them from the car one at a time. LE talked about how the hunters could have walked right by them had they been five feet over, maybe the killer couldn't find the other when they came back. I don't know, I'm just guessing at this point.



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[jn0920]

Don't misunderstand me, I do not think this is the case here.

I think LE are doing the best they can with very little cooperation, and probably not many resources. The lack of arrest could simply be down to financial restrictions.

Whoever did this crime planned it down to the last detail. :cow:

I'm sorry I wasn't clear enough, I understand you don't think that was true to this crime, I was agreeing while we don't like to think about it, it's entirely possible.

I am disappointed although because in the beginning they did not accept help from other agencies such as Waterloo. A large number of officers, reserves and their families came on their own time to help search for these girls. It seemed like ages before BHCS was invited in even though it was days. I realize they were financially concerned if these girls just turned up but I hope that's a risk a small LE agency is willing to take.


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[SapphireSteel]

Go back and watch the videos of when the girls were found.

Why/how would I look for something I've never heard said in the first place?

TOS states that links should be provided when stating something as fact, especially when requested...

If LE think the girls were killed elsewhere, we need a link! :websleuther:

 

[jn0920]

Why/how would I look for something I've never heard said in the first place?

TOS states that links should be provided when stating something as fact....

I agree. I did some digging and this is the only website that suggests LE thinks they were placed at Seven Bridges. If it were leaked information I would think MSM would be all over it.

http://thesop.org/story/20121207/ho...lins-bodies-end-up-at-seven-bridges-park.html


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[carbuff]

Thank you for your information. So since smaller animals are the ones for dragging remains apart its highly unlikely since they most likely found the girls remains in one place due to the white sheet? I'm agreeing with the "run" theory more. Unless they weren't put there at the same time due to sexual preference? Or the killer carried them from the car one at a time. LE talked about how the hunters could have walked right by them had they been five feet over, maybe the killer couldn't find the other when they came back. I don't know, I'm just guessing at this point.



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I think it's much more likely that the murderer took each body there separately. I doubt if he cared whether they were close together or not.

There's also the possibility that one of the white cloths is the location of the bodies, and the other marks a second crime scene, perhaps the murder site, or a weapons disposal site, etc.

 

[cindersoot]

Police also said they are looking for the area where the deaths occurred, which leads us to believe they think they were killed elsewhere and their bodies were dumped in the wooded area. There was no evidence at the crime scene to suggest that it is where the girls were killed. This is taken from the JVM video.

 

[SapphireSteel]

Thank you for your information. So since smaller animals are the ones for dragging remains apart its highly unlikely since they most likely found the girls remains in one place due to the white sheet? I'm agreeing with the "run" theory more. Unless they weren't put there at the same time due to sexual preference? Or the killer carried them from the car one at a time. LE talked about how the hunters could have walked right by them had they been five feet over, maybe the killer couldn't find the other when they came back. I don't know, I'm just guessing at this point. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Ha we all are!

I like to put myself in the perp's shoes. If I had two bodies to dump, I would dump them in the same place. Separating them doubles the risk of one of them being stumbled over and has zero benefit that I can see.

Also, why take them so far into the woods? Two dead bodies, no matter how tiny, do weigh quite a lot. Carrying them so far in would be exhausting, the undergrowth was very high at that time of year. Also, the bodies weren't actually concealed. Carrying bodies so far in then not (apparently) attempting to even hide them makes no sense. Leaving them where they fell, however, would fit with someone who didn't really wish to be handling their victims at all...someone who is merely carrying out an execution.

It just makes no sense, no matter how you look at it...unless you go for the "hunting" scenario, or two separate perps taking one child each.

The only thing that really gels to me is if this crime was committed in a HURRY. Quick, get them to the killing field, we can come back later and bury them.

Except no one had a chance to come back later because LE became suspicious and were watching too close.

Opinion only.

 

[SapphireSteel]

Police also said they are looking for the area where the deaths occurred, which leads us to believe they think they were killed elsewhere and their bodies were dumped in the wooded area. There was no evidence at the crime scene to suggest that it is where the girls were killed. This is taken from the JVM video.

You know that JVM has a few videos on this crime?

Please link to the JVM transcript where this detail appears.

 

[jn0920]

Was it verified that the girls were found that far apart or are we assuming based on the white sheets?


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[superbee]

Was there a big melt in Iowa this Spring? Is the River level up, did it erode any of the river banks? If the killer(s) were not able to return to the site where the girls' bodies were discovered, I wonder if they hoped the runoff in the Spring may erode the river bank enough to carry away or move the girls' bodies?

 

[carbuff]

Ha we all are!

I like to put myself in the perp's shoes. If I had two bodies to dump, I would dump them in the same place. Separating them doubles the risk of one of them being stumbled over and has zero benefit that I can see.

Also, why take them so far into the woods? Two dead bodies, no matter how tiny, do weigh quite a lot. Carrying them so far in would be exhausting, the undergrowth was very high at that time of year. Also, the bodies weren't actually concealed. Carrying bodies so far in then not (apparently) attempting to even hide them makes no sense. Leaving them where they fell, however, would fit with someone who didn't really wish to be handling their victims at all...someone who is merely carrying out an execution.

It just makes no sense, no matter how you look at it...unless you go for the "hunting" scenario, or two separate perps taking one child each.

The only thing that really gels to me is if this crime was committed in a HURRY. Quick, get them to the killing field, we can come back later and bury them.

Except no one had a chance to come back later because LE became suspicious and were watching too close.

Opinion only.

On the other hand, two bodies together make a largish and more noticeable lump. Separated, each one is less noticeable, especially with the underbrush growing over it. I was also thinking maybe he didn't leave them at the same time, so that by the time he brought the second body, he really couldn't find the first one. :sick:

It's very very common for murderers to just dump bodies somewhere -- in the brush, off the side of a road, down a hill. Lyric and Elizabeth were found in a location nearly identical to two of the victims of the serial killer we had in our area a few years ago. He dumped one woman, then a few months later he put another woman in almost the same spot. Maybe 25-30 feet away.

He was, incidentally, only about 17 when he committed his first murder. The first victim wasn't discovered until at least three or four years later.

 

[carbuff]

Was it verified that the girls were found that far apart or are we assuming based on the white sheets?


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We are assuming based on the white sheets.

 

[alliemay]

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1212/06/ijvm.01.html

JVM transcript talking about how the bodies where not found next to each other.

 

[georger]

Nancy Grace and all the other supposed victims advocates over at HLN have become so enamored of the Jodi Arias case and the titillation it holds that you cant get any of their heads out of JA's butt long enough to cover any other cases right now. And IMO it has been that way for some time.

Don't watch them. Can't stomach them.

 

[georger]

Next they will offering pony rides.

Maybe they could attract a casino ?

 

[jn0920]

Was there a big melt in Iowa this Spring? Is the River level up, did it erode any of the river banks? If the killer(s) were not able to return to the site where the girls' bodies were discovered, I wonder if they hoped the runoff in the Spring may erode the river bank enough to carry away or move the girls' bodies?

We're currently in drought conditions so no the bodies wouldn't have been moved.


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[jn0920]

We are assuming based on the white sheets.

I'm curious because it was quoted in the WCF Courier that this area was only used by fisherman, hunters and the occasional camper. It began to rain at 11am the day the first found the girls, could the second sheet be a campsite I wonder.


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[CHERIE.T]

Cherie, your basket of easter eggs is so pretty.

:seeya: thanks cindersoot!