IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #29

[cindersoot]

Cherie, your basket of easter eggs is so pretty.

 

[jn0920]

Personally I'd rather just have a bench for my child. I wouldn't want to killer to be able to come back to relive the murders if something happened on that island. I haven't gone by it lately so I'm interested to see what it looks like, I am concerned about the drain pipes though. Hopefully they have some kind of grates or wire over they so a child doesn't craw in there.

Here's a good timeline website I found...
http://evansdalesearch.com/

LE was looking for the paddleboater that was on the lake before they found the girls bodies. They are probably hoping that they saw something about the bikes, IMO. But they were basically looking for anyone that was at the lake that day.. http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/07/23/search-for-missing-iowa-girls-will-likely-expand/


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[roseofsharon]

I my child was kidnapped from a park/lake and the perp still out there, I don't think I could see fit building something at said park that may attract more children to the area.

Where I lived, they have one of the most beautiful parks I have ever seen with memorial gardens, memory walls and a bronze sitting on a park bench.

Unfortunately, the bronze was vandalized. Someone very sick even killed two swans on the pond by strangulation.

The city put more police surveillance in the park, especially at night, but from what I have heard, the problems still exist.

I hope the memorial for L and E does not meet the same fate.

Vandalism and graffiti are a big problem. :furious:

IMO

 

[superbee]

It is some bad a$$ $*%! At one point in my life I owned a beautiful Tennessee Walking horse. Her name was Black Beauty and she was a sweetheart. She was over 17 hands tall and weighed in around 1,100 to 1,200 pounds. Unfortunately, her pasture was fenced with barbed wire - the bain of this horse person's existance. I went out one morning and Beauty was nickering to me which was not unusual except she was at the gate and she was holding her right front foot up. I could see it was dripping with blood. She was telling mama to help her, she was hurting bad. And she was. She had been cut very deeply and must have just ripped her hoof from the barbed wire that must have somehow gotten wrapped around her foot. There was a LOT OF blood. I didn't have a horse trailer at the time so called my vet who came to tend to her emergently - God Bless Him! It was just me and the vet and his assistance and my hubby! We were holding Beauty when he gave her a shot of horse tranquilizer. The effects were almost immediately. Man! She got all woozy and I expect dizzy and she tried to lay down or fall down, so the four of us were trying to hold up this massive beast who was in a tremendous amount of pain. It sedated her enough and with three of us holding Beauty up the vet was able to stitch up the leg and bandage it. It was an experience! I have hated barbed wire since then. I gave up Black Beauty because I could not afford to build the type of fence that she clearly deserved. Anyway.... succinylcholine is a POTENT drug! I didn't know it had such a short half-life and yeah that could be untraceable if it was used in a murder. . . hard to think about, but there are people that evil unfortunately.

So sorry to hear Black Beauty's awful story. Thankfully, you were there and able to help her. I had a pony, Honey, who had a similar experience with barb wire. Her foot just above a front hoof was torn up, and the vet cost money we could barely spare. Our pets were/are family, and luckily in those days the vets would take weekly payments in a small town.

My parents were so upset with barb wire they phoned around and got donations of old boards to replace the bottom strands all around Honey's pasture. Bless those folks who donated, apparently a lot of them had had pets, kids, and themselves get ripped up and scarred by that awful wire. I still have some faint scars on my legs and that was long ago

That horse tranquilizer is a very potent drug. A friend is a Vet's daughter, and his Vet bag was never to be touched at home by anyone but himself. And never was. There is theft now of that tranquilizer and it has to be kept these days in locked Vet clinics. Some people are just wicked. Tranquilizers, knock out drops in drinks, tasers,... A friend died in a strange way, was found outside his truck which had been run off the road. The only mark on him was a pinprick on his skin, but nothing was found in his blood. This was 35 years ago. The rumor was he was given a shot of antifreeze, which will stop the heart, and is undetectable. The Truth? Urban legend? Who would do such a thing? I guess some walking among us are evil and can do these things and just go on living their lives and feel no remorse.

 

[superbee]

Thank you Reverie! Yes, it was hard to give her up. I read the same books too! I used to have the little Breyer Misty horse. National Velvet *sigh! Loved them all. Thank you for the much appreciated hugs! Can always use a hug! :blushing:

Here's a big, big hug from one horse lover to another!! I'm sure all our furry friends, big and small, will be waiting for us at The Bridge. Happy Trails always and all ways

 

[SapphireSteel]

Fountains are almost never vandalised (everyone likes them), can be put anywhere, can run on solar power, and will attract birds and butterflies to a garden.

Having said that, I can't imagine Carlie Brucia's mother wishing to put one in the supermarket carpark she was abducted from.

 

[superbee]

Thank you Just Pat! Is that your birdie as your avatar? He's a cutie! I have a hen that is hatching chicks this morning. She had about 19 eggs under her. I don't think the eggs are all hers - I think she had some contributing hens who had no plans to sit, just decided to let her do the work of incubating. So far 6 chicks and 2 eggs are in the process of hatching. They are banties and the chicks are sooooo tiny! Elizabeth and Lyric would have loved them. Sure sign spring is here. Speaking of which, I hear the people of Ohio have issued an "indictment" against Punxsutawney Phil.

I love Banties. We had lots of them on our farm. They are great in the garden because they don't peck up things like big chickens often do. They are so friendly, they will fly up onto your shoulder, or arm, or hand, and talk to you. One little hen just loved to ride with us to town in our car. Sat in the back window, people did a double take when she moved or blinked, LOL. Just precious. They are good mothers, their little chicks are darlings, and you're right, Lizzie and Luric would love them! Bless your heart for bringing back such good memories

 

[cindersoot]

Not to change the subject, but looking back at the pictures of the white sheets and the distance between the bodies, I wonder how the hunters came across both bodies? The bodies were about 50 yrds apart, so maybe each hunter came across a body? Are did they just find one body and FBI found the other.

 

[SapphireSteel]

Not to change the subject, but looking back at the pictures of the white sheets and the distance between the bodies, I wonder how the hunters came across both bodies? The bodies were about 50 yrds apart, so maybe each hunter came across a body? Are did they just find one body and FBI found the other.

It seems most likely they stumbled across one body first then LE found the other.

Personally I feel the girls were taken straight to 7 bridges, told to run, shot and left where they fell.

I doubt this is a sexual crime and I believe the girls were found fully clothed. I expect to find that this was done "execution style".

I know I'm basing this on virtually zero evidence, it's just the tone of the investigation in general that is leading me to believe this is not a sexually motivated crime. Abbens "we don't even have a gender" tends to indicate this too IMO. :cow:

 

[superbee]

I agree, which is why I feel the locals are confident in how LE is handling the case so far. Otherwise, I'd think the residents would be up in arms about the fact that this case hasn't been solved yet. JMO

ETA: I'm surprised there hasn't been more national media coverage about Lyric and Lizzie. Two little girls disappearing in broad daylight and being found 5 months later - that's the kind of story it seems most of the news media loves to run with. But after the bodies were found, there hasn't been much national news coverage about the investigation. By now, you'd think Nancy Grace or Jane Velez Mitchell would be dogging LE, asking all kinds of questions. JMO

NG and JVM seem to be busy with a big murder trial whenever I have checked on them lately, hoping to see something about Elizabeth and Luric. Has anyone seen coverage of the girls lately?

 

[SapphireSteel]

NG and JVM seem to be busy with a big murder trial whenever I have checked on them lately, hoping to see something about Elizabeth and Luric. Has anyone seen coverage of the girls lately?

I've only seen coverage of Heather and Drew.

Nothing from LE...no one seems to even be pushing for answers.

 

[roseofsharon]

Could someone please explain the following ...

LE have information that only the killer would have knowledge of (paraphrasing).

Why would LE hold this information back. If someone in the population heard someone (perp) discussing this aspect in public, and the person whom heard it called LE to reoprt it, would this not be helpful to LE?

Exactly, how does this work? TIA

IMO

 

[jn0920]

Could someone please explain the following ...

LE have information that only the killer would have knowledge of (paraphrasing).

Why would LE hold this information back. If someone in the population heard someone (perp) discussing this aspect in public, and the person whom heard it called LE to reoprt it, would this not be helpful to LE?

Exactly, how does this work? TIA

IMO

I believe this is so when questioned the killer could not say well I heard it on the news etc. It would give them a pretty good and quick case if a single person knew of these details.


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[jn0920]

It seems most likely they stumbled across one body first then LE found the other.

Personally I feel the girls were taken straight to 7 bridges, told to run, shot and left where they fell.

I doubt this is a sexual crime and I believe the girls were found fully clothed. I expect to find that this was done "execution style".

I know I'm basing this on virtually zero evidence, it's just the tone of the investigation in general that is leading me to believe this is not a sexually motivated crime. Abbens "we don't even have a gender" tends to indicate this too IMO. :cow:

I agree with your theory and IMO its one of the best I've heard. I always thought it was strange they took both, unless they weren't planning on both being wherever they were picked up. Their builds and looks were completely different.

Another reason the girls could be 50 yards apart could be animals. I realize most wont drag a body this far but a mountain lion or cougar that seems to be frequently popping up in Iowa backyards could be the reason for this. This could also explain why LE hasn't released cause of death...

My opinion of course.


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[SapphireSteel]

Could someone please explain the following ...

LE have information that only the killer would have knowledge of (paraphrasing).

Why would LE hold this information back. If someone in the population heard someone (perp) discussing this aspect in public, and the person whom heard it called LE to reoprt it, would this not be helpful to LE?

Exactly, how does this work? TIA

IMO

When there is a crime of such magnitude, LE are bombarded by false leads, red herrings and the sad and sick who wish to take credit - John Mark Karr is a perfect example in the Jonbenet case.

The quickest and easiest way to rule someone out is to withhold details of the crime which is what is going on here.

I watched a show recently about a 30 year murder which has just been solved because someone said the victim was shot in the face.

Everyone knew the victims were shot, but it was never released that one of them had been shot in the face...hey presto finally an arrest. The perp was confronted and asked about this knowledge and broke down and confessed.

As far as this case in particular goes, I believe that LE knows exactly who did what to whom and when - or they think they do.

They just can't prove it.

This is often because someone has a false alibi that can't easily be broken. Perps alibi each other for example.

I suspect there is so much silence and so much unsaid because Evansdale LE are playing cat and mouse with certain suspects/witnesses trying to get them to either confess something concrete, or turn evidence.

Either that or Evansdale LE are part of the Meth Ring in town and don't want to be exposed for being corrupt and criminals themselves. It happens.

:twocents:

 

[cindersoot]

LE does not believe the girls were murdered at 7 bridges.

 

[SapphireSteel]

Re animals interfering with the remains -

It's possible but large animals such as cougars tend to not want carcass that is not fresh.

If they did have a chew at a body, they would not move it, but feast on it where it is. Even Lizzie's tiny frame would have been too much for a wild cat to move.

Once the larger predators finish with their meal, it's time for the smaller ones to jump on, like vultures and crows, and eventually insects.

These smaller predators are the ones responsible for bone scatter, and only once most of the "meat" is gone from a carcass. It is then light enough to detach and drag it away in pieces and back to burrows etc.

The two distinct spread out LARGE white sheets tend to suggest (to me at least) that the girls were intact.

 

[SapphireSteel]

LE does not believe the girls were murdered at 7 bridges.

First time I've heard that!

Do you have a link?

 

[jn0920]

Either that or Evansdale LE are part of the Meth Ring in town and don't want to be exposed for being corrupt and criminals themselves. It happens.

:twocents:

While I don't like discussing corrupt LE since we in trust our lives to them it does happen. Since FBI and DCI is involved I would think this would be less likely to be true though. But like you said, it happens.




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[SapphireSteel]

While I don't like discussing corrupt LE since we in trust our lives to them it does happen. Since FBI and DCI is involved I would think this would be less likely to be true though. But like you said, it happens.


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Don't misunderstand me, I do not think this is the case here.

I think LE are doing the best they can with very little cooperation, and probably not many resources. The lack of arrest could simply be down to financial restrictions.

Whoever did this crime planned it down to the last detail. :cow: