IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #29

[Considering]

LE doesn't mention TG's sighting. LE doesn't know anything about a cyclist, remember?

I don't believe that Tammy ever said she spoke to a cyclist at the lake that afternoon. I believe she only referred to the person as a "man".

 

[chelsea6]

REPLIES TO MY POST
Bootsctr wrote:

I mean I never knew about the O factor of the jaw and mouth until the Caylee Anthony case. That's true, what is grotesque to one person

Me: I didn't know they showed that, every picture I saw of her remains, the skull was blurred out. Thanks for replying.
BunnyHop wrote:

I remember reading a post by someone who said they knew the hunters, and one was a woman. That's all I remember.

Me: Wow, i missed out on this too. Thanks for posting this. nope, that wasn't it either though, but thanks!
Cindersoot wrote:

This got me thinking that whoever the hunters were, and bless their hearts, I'm pretty sure that they told family members or friends what they saw and it will leak out. But as far a remembering a poster who said they knew something about the girls bodies, no I don't remember that.

Me:I'm surprised it hasn't leaked out more by now.. I mean anything.. like who else saw the girls on their bikes that day. :waitasec: Thank you .
RNER wrote:

I thought the "teenager" pertained to neighbor girls, I don't know for sure though! And yes, I do recall a poster saying something about knowing one of the "hunters", but can't recall what she said.
I would believe that finding ANY remains of a person would be "grotesque" to many people, whether it was "a bunch of bones" or an intact body.
I don't believe the condition of the deceased bodies has been released yet, so they may have been more than "a bunch of bones".

Me: Thanks for replying. I'm going to keep looking, it's driving me crazy. I'll keep looking for the teenager info.. it was back when I was thinking of CMF, so maybe I can find it. Re-reading the bones comment I made, I look back at that phrase and it reads as so uncaring, I should have said only "bones". Forgive me everyone. lease: And yes RNER, they haven't released the condition yet, you're right. So many unknowns in this. :waitasec:
Snufamonboball wrote:

The hunters exist and they are both devastated. One is male and one is female.
The reward money was for the safe return of the girls, or the arrest and conviction of the person/s involved in the kidnapping/murder.
The hunters who found them would not have been eligible for just finding the bodies.

Me:THAT"S the one!!! :great: Marilynilpa was right, I must have gotten the grotesque word from some facebook person talking about it using that word, and mixed it up with the post you found. THANK-YOU!!!! :tyou:
Marilynilpa wrote:

I don't recall that, and I've been here since the first thread. Maybe it was something on Facebook[/I]?

Me: Yes, you're right, I got it mixed up:blushing: .. thanks for posting!!

Thanks to everyone else for replying, I sure appreciate it!! :seeya:

 

[roseofsharon]

On the Nancy Grace website in an interview with an FBI spokesperson. "Bloodhounds were even brought in during the pond search and they picked up the girls scents. The scents went as far as a mile away from the trail where the missing girls would have been riding their bikes".

I'm guessing the mile was east of the trail. imo

 

[Squeeze]

I cannot find the info on when the bridge went out but IIRC it was in the late 90s and then shortly thereafter the county stopped maintaining the area.

It continued to be used by locals and those "in the know" about it for hiking, hunting, fishing and mushroom hunting

We had a major flood in 1999. That was probably the year.

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2

 

[Squeeze]

At some point this spring/summer I am going to make a day trip to both Meyer's Lake and also 7 Bridges. I want to see for myself the lay of the land.

Even though we've seen lots of pictures posted, even from locals, it's different to see it for yourself. Maybe even take a video. Video's seem to help people get a visual of the area even better than still shots.

I'd like to go up in the spring before all the vegetation gets thick so everyone can see roads, trails, etc...but I'd also like to get video of when the area is in full vegetation as well to see how it could affect the area.

I believe though, that the city has removed the vegetation on the area of the trail where the girls bikes were found. If I remember correctly, they had cut down all of the thick viney growth that prevented seeing the trail all the way through (in essence eliminating the creepy spot).

And I'm sure LE cleared out a lot of the area where the bodies were found. However, I'm sure I can find a full grown area as well to demonstrate how thick the grass/brush was in a similar area to see how well hidden the bodies would have been.

I just want to see it all in person. I think it may help me see what I feel is feasible and what is a more or less likely scenario.

Me too. I want to walk around 7 Bridges. After LE was done, they left crime scene tape. It could still be there, under all of the snow.

We should meet there. Don't think I wanna go by myself....

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2

 

[Squeeze]

As I was driving down River Forest Road the other day, it occurred to me location of the sidewalks.... I think it would be unlikely that they would have ridden their bikes on that road all the way to Gilbert (as some scenarios might suggest) because the sidewalk is on the west side of the street in the blocks before Gilbert. Now if I were a child that age, I would avoid riding on that side of the street if it meant that I had to eventually cross over to the other side. So they might have headed toward RFR as the video suggests, but they probably would have turned east and gone south on the residential streets. See, this is why I keep thinking that they were abducted closer to home, between the Collins house and Meyers Lake.

 

[SapphireSteel]

:floorlaugh:

I'm going to say Unconfirmed, mentioned by LE. Only because it was the bikes and not an actual sighting of the girls themselves.

Technically, LE mentions this sighting...but only of the bikes. I am not aware of ANY confirmed sightings (mentioned by LE) of the girls AT ALL after the 12:15 sighting.

I'm sure someone is sure to disagree with my category...I'm almost certain of it. But that's ok...we can keep busy nit-picking it for a few hours. LOL

Its either nit picking or finding facts...


So le mentoned the cyclist at 2? just to confirm....this is so confusing.

 

[gregjrichards]

Me too. I want to walk around 7 Bridges. After LE was done, they left crime scene tape. It could still be there, under all of the snow.

We should meet there. Don't think I wanna go by myself....

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2

Good idea please be safe if you are visiting this area I worry about members going alone to scenes of a crime and don't want anything to happen to anyone.

Remember try not to go alone, don't go when it is starting to get dark, always make sure you have your cell phone, tell someone you know where you are intending to go, bring a whistle or personal alarm, mace spray or even a gun if necessary. Sorry to sound alarmist but as we are all aware a killer(s) is out there who did this.

I am pleased that Elizabeth and Lyric haven't been forgotten and that we continue to hunt for a clue.

 

[Sere-nity]

So working off the boat theory....

assumptions being made:
girls biked to lake.
12:15 time is right and throwing out 12:23 time at brovan

What if the girls biked past camera on auction house (12:15)
zoomed past Mr.C on Lake/Gilbert (12:21:30)
made it to lake and dropped bikes and went into the drain area (12:23)
Bicyclist sighting of bikes (12:24)
Girls enter john boat (12:24)
Girls on lake with perp(s) (12:24-12:30)
Bicyclist makes it to restrooms and makes phone call (12:28)
Bicyclist leaves area (12:29)
Girls with perp(s) dock (12:30-12:35)
Girls are seen with perp around gilbert/elmer (12:35)
Girls are out of the area by 12:40

 

[Reverie]

http://iowacoldcases.org/tag/julie-benning/
"Quote"
Still, hope remains. The Iowa Division of Criminal Investigation (DCI) had but two short years to put to work their newly created Cold Case Unit, but fruits of their labor continue to be witnessed since the unit shut down in late 2011 due to lack of funding. They were making progress — particularly with cases where DNA had been preserved — and remained committed to following through with those cases. Their perseverance paid off.

On July 26, 2011, officials arrested 45-year-old Tracey Ann Richter-Roberts for the 2001 death of 20-year-old Dustin Wehde in Early, Iowa.

On May 23, 2012, the DCI announced that the female remains found in southeast Iowa on March 17, 2012 were believed to be those of Jackie Leigh Douthart, who disappeared from Mount Pleasant on May 22, 2011.

On July 12, 2012, Derrick J. McElroy, 26, was charged with first-degree murder in the shooting death of 19-year-old Brandyn Preston of Fort Dodge. Preston was shot May 8, 2011, and died from his injuries on January 22, 2012.

On September 27, 2012, agents with the DCI and Floyd County Sheriff’s Office charged 33-year-old Casey Frederiksen in the 2005 death of five-year-old Evelyn Miller.

On November 13, 2012, DCI agents and Wapello County Sheriff’s deputies arrested 66-year-old Robert Eugene Pilcher in connection with the 1974 homicide of 17-year-old Mary Jayne Jones of Ottumwa.

DNA from other cases continues to be processed, and hundreds of Iowa families remain hopeful that funding will soon restore the DCI’s Cold Case Unit. We need them. They’ve proven they can produce results. And, DNA technology is only going to advance and get better.

The unit was shut down in 2011, this doesn't sound promising if this case becomes cold, hope that does not happen.

The cold case unit seems a more deserving recipient of the fundraising that has been going on. :moo::moo::moo:

 

[jenandemmie]

My two cents (although it looks more like a dollar's worth, lol):

I'm thinking one or more pedophiles were involved. If two, they are closely related - brothers, cousins, best friends, inseparable, acting as one. Maybe only one is the pedophile, but the other is bound by some sort of bond that is strong enough to withstand a secret like this. I am convinced the crime was sexually motivated and since these girls would not have been mistaken for teenagers, only a pedophile would be interested in sexual relations with that age range. I'm leaning towards sexually motivated because I think a drug or revenge motive would translate to the perp wanting his message received earlier and therefore he would leave the bodies closer to home and in a much more frequented location. Instead,the bodies weren't close to home, they were outside the typical search parameter in a location not frequented in the summer. But they weren't buried or stuffed in a barrel either, so I think this means they wanted the bodies found eventually.

- I think they might be socially awkward but very intelligent.
- Not popular with girls in high school, and not really interested in girls/women their own age now.
- Takes an unusual interest in younger nieces or cousins, maybe overly friendly to non-relative girls that age range, too.
- Lives along the route the girls had begun to frequent in the week immediately preceding the abduction. (Remember, this was a new routine for the girls due to Misty's recent employment at Casey's). I think the need to possess them grew with each day they watched them ride by.
- I think they noticed the girls earlier in the week and maybe followed them or made an attempt to talk to them at some point. Maybe there was a prior face-to-face contact and they made plans to meet up later.
- I can't decide on an age range. The lack of other similar crimes in the recent past, or since, makes me think they are on the younger, less experienced side, but still intelligent enough to think through a solid plan to evade detection. Maybe no older than 30, no younger than early twenties.
- I think they may be regarded by their peers as smart but weird, definitely not considered attractive. Younger girls would see past looks and regard humor as a more favorable attribute. This might have the unfortunate consequence of reiterating their attraction to younger girls.

Just my opinion.

 

[keyleigh]

I'll add my theories of what could have happened to the girls- I think the perp(s) are in their late teens, probably somewhat known to the girls through their older brothers or through school friends . I think they live very close to the lake, and the girls ran into them that day, started talking, and ended up lured into their house. I think the boy(s) probably did not set out with the intention to kill them, but things got of hand, one of the girls got hurt, the boy(s) got scared, and they killed them. I think the boy(s) only had access to a car that day, they put the girls bodies in the car , but the bikes would not fit in the car, so they rode them to the nearby bike trail and left them.

I'm leaning towards this scenario.

Apologies, because I haven't checked the girls thread for a while- do we know a COD? Has there been any news or updates lately?

 

[cluciano63]

I'll add my theories of what could have happened to the girls- I think the perp(s) are in their late teens, probably somewhat known to the girls through their older brothers or through school friends . I think they live very close to the lake, and the girls ran into them that day, started talking, and ended up lured into their house. I think the boy(s) probably did not set out with the intention to kill them, but things got of hand, one of the girls got hurt, the boy(s) got scared, and they killed them. I think the boy(s) only had access to a car that day, they put the girls bodies in the car , but the bikes would not fit in the car, so they rode them to the nearby bike trail and left them.

I kind of agree, except my perps are a bit older, probably in their twenties, and probably have some sort of records. I am not so sure teen boys with clean records could stay "cool" for over seven months now, while older men with a history with LE would maybe be a little more able to ride it out and keep their mouths shut.

 

[BunnyHop]

On the Nancy Grace website in an interview with an FBI spokesperson. "Bloodhounds were even brought in during the pond search and they picked up the girls scents. The scents went as far as a mile away from the trail where the missing girls would have been riding their bikes".

BBM. Is this new information?
As I mentioned, there has been much discussion about the dogs near the lake.
(nothing conclusive IIRC) If this "mile" info is true-this is very important. I don't recall hearing of this. Forgive me for avoiding NG-I just don't care for her. :blushing:

Is there a link? Was this statement ever published in the media?
TIA

 

[threecrazykids]

Me too. I want to walk around 7 Bridges. After LE was done, they left crime scene tape. It could still be there, under all of the snow.

We should meet there. Don't think I wanna go by myself....

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I was thinking the same thing...I don't wanna go by myself either! :floorlaugh: It would be MY LUCK that the day I choose to go there, the perp would decide it was his day to revisit the scene of his crime.

I'd feel much better if there were 2 (or more) of us there!:great:

 

[threecrazykids]

Its either nit picking or finding facts...


So le mentoned the cyclist at 2? just to confirm....this is so confusing.

LE mentioned a JOGGER at 2. The only cyclist I'm aware of is Mr. G.

 

[threecrazykids]

So working off the boat theory....

assumptions being made:
girls biked to lake.
12:15 time is right and throwing out 12:23 time at brovan

What if the girls biked past camera on auction house (12:15)
zoomed past Mr.C on Lake/Gilbert (12:21:30)
made it to lake and dropped bikes and went into the drain area (12:23)
Bicyclist sighting of bikes (12:24)
Girls enter john boat (12:24)
Girls on lake with perp(s) (12:24-12:30)
Bicyclist makes it to restrooms and makes phone call (12:28)
Bicyclist leaves area (12:29)
Girls with perp(s) dock (12:30-12:35)
Girls are seen with perp around gilbert/elmer (12:35)
Girls are out of the area by 12:40

Even if the girls WERE seen on Brovan, I find it hard to believe anyone (unless there was another sighting on CCTV) would know with 100% certainty that they saw them at exactly 12:23. I just can't wrap my head around that time.

I would have to check links again, but did it say "approx 12:23" or EXACTLY 12:23?

I'm still wondering if they used a 12:15 CCTV plus 8 mins off on the clock to come to the 12:23 time. 12:23 is just too precise for it to be a witness sighting...IMO only. I believe the reports said "approx 12:23" which to me means not an exact time.

:waitasec:

 

[roseofsharon]

Even if the girls WERE seen on Brovan, I find it hard to believe anyone (unless there was another sighting on CCTV) would know with 100% certainty that they saw them at exactly 12:23. I just can't wrap my head around that time.

I would have to check links again, but did it say "approx 12:23" or EXACTLY 12:23?

I'm still wondering if they used a 12:15 CCTV plus 8 mins off on the clock to come to the 12:23 time. 12:23 is just too precise for it to be a witness sighting...IMO only. I believe the reports said "approx 12:23" which to me means not an exact time.

:waitasec:

Respectfully, TCK, the cctv time was 12:11 p.m. and supposedly the cctv had an 8 minute delay, so the actual time should have been 12:19 p.m. on the cctv.

This is my own understanding.

 

[threecrazykids]

Respectfully, TCK, the cctv time was 12:11 p.m. and supposedly the cctv had an 8 minute delay, so the actual time should have been 12:19 p.m. on the cctv.

This is my own understanding.

I know... I just am trying to figure out how a 12:23 sighting could be a witness sighting. Who would know with 100% certainty that the time they saw them was 12:23 anymore than TG's sighting was 12:20.

I am inclined to believe that with a time of exactly 12:23 it almost has to be a CCTV of some kind.

 

[otto]

Respectfully, TCK, the cctv time was 12:11 p.m. and supposedly the cctv had an 8 minute delay, so the actual time should have been 12:19 p.m. on the cctv.

This is my own understanding.

That's exactly what Mr Pahl, the manager at Cornbelt Auction, said.

I think what some people are assuming is that if the 12:23 witness did not go to the media and provide all the details of what they saw that day at 12:23, then it didn't happen. Police have provided the 12:15 time and the 12:23 time. The choice is simple: either accept what the police have said, or remain doubtful because nothing more than the time was provided.

Essentially, doubting the 12:23 sighting of the children at Brovan is equivalent to doubting police statements.