IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #29

[otto]

I know... I just am trying to figure out how a 12:23 sighting could be a witness sighting. Who would know with 100% certainty that the time they saw them was 12:23 anymore than TG's sighting was 12:20.

I am inclined to believe that with a time of exactly 12:23 it almost has to be a CCTV of some kind.

Apparently someone did know the exact time. That could be as simple as walking out of the back of Cornbelt Auction with a time stamped receipt and seeing the children. The Auction isn't just a place to view old stuff ... it's a business that issues receipts.

 

[otto]

BBM. Is this new information?
As I mentioned, there has been much discussion about the dogs near the lake.
(nothing conclusive IIRC) If this "mile" info is true-this is very important. I don't recall hearing of this. Forgive me for avoiding NG-I just don't care for her. :blushing:

Is there a link? Was this statement ever published in the media?
TIA

The FBI said that the dogs tracked to the lake near the bikes. Nancy Grace said that the dogs tracked for a mile.

... who to believe???

If Nancy Grace was aware of a suspect, and she was still covering the story, wouldn't she also be saying that the dogs tracked directly to the front door of the suspect?

 

[threecrazykids]

That's exactly what Mr Pahl, the manager at Cornbelt Auction, said.

I think what some people are assuming is that if the 12:23 witness did not go to the media and provide all the details of what they saw that day at 12:23, then it didn't happen. Police have provided the 12:15 time and the 12:23 time. The choice is simple: either accept what the police have said, or remain doubtful because nothing more than the time was provided.

Essentially, doubting the 12:23 sighting of the children at Brovan is equivalent to doubting police statements.

I'm also not aloof to the fact that this is Mr. Pahl's time declaration, NOT LE's.
Where is LE's confirmation of the 12:11 or 12:19 time if Mr. Pahl and his video are correct? It's not there. LE doesn't recognize the video timestamp in their official timeline and for cryin out loud its a VIDEO!

LE has either disregarded the video as the girls, or have adjusted the timestamp of the video to 12:23 based on their investigation of the ACTUAL time of the video.

I'm not doubting the 12:23 sighting by LE, I'm saying the 12:23 sighting IS the video on Brovan - adjusted to the ACTUAL time they believe the video to have captured the girls.

 

[Squeeze]

http://wcfcourier.com/news/evansdal...cle_b6645128-8660-11e2-903a-001a4bcf887a.html

Can't help but think how Elizabeth loved Christian music and loved to sing and dance. What a fitting tribute to the girls, and something positive to focus on.

 

[BunnyHop]

The FBI said that the dogs tracked to the lake near the bikes. Nancy Grace said that the dogs tracked for a mile.

... who to believe???

If Nancy Grace was aware of a suspect, and she was still covering the story, wouldn't she also be saying that the dogs tracked directly to the front door of the suspect?

I would like to see a link, just saying.
Otherwise it's just hearsay to me.
Others are nit-picking over details.
If in fact the dogs tracked for "a mile" (per NG? cough cough) or LE, that's big.
If it's just hearsay then it holds no bearing IMO.

 

[SapphireSteel]

Respectfully, TCK, the cctv time was 12:11 p.m. and supposedly the cctv had an 8 minute delay, so the actual time should have been 12:19 p.m. on the cctv.

This is my own understanding.

LE have never confirmed this.

The official "last seen" remains 12.15 on Brovan.

Unless someone else has a link to LE confirming otherwise?

Also, Mr G actually said that LE told him to pretty much ignore other people's times as things can be off for one reason or another.

 

[shoregirl]

Perhaps since they have already investigated the usual suspects (parents, family, local SO, tips called in etc) and no arrest have been made, it is an unusual suspect. This to me would mean someone that acted with impulse and doesn't fit the usual profiles making them harder to catch I would guess.

 

[cindersoot]

I'm guessing the mile was east of the trail. imo

I think so too. But if it is a mile would go all the way to lafayette st? IDK

 

[SapphireSteel]

Here's something new to discuss.

From TG's posts -


there was a guy got out of his vehicle and started walking at the depot then i seen, when i returned he left as i did. there was two people fishing on north west corner of the lake . a vehicle pulled in as i was leaving the parking lot of the lake then a few cars on laff that about it

Was this the perp?

 

[cindersoot]

I'm still bewildered on why the community isn't demanding answers. On all the cases I have seen where children are murdered, the community is so involved, not in gazebos and cutie stuff, but involved in wanting justice. I don't understand the silence, I don't understand why this isn't shouted from the roof tops everyday. Two little girls were abducted than murdered, and the killer is out there! If I had young children or tweens, I would be so afraid to let them out of my sight. I'm sorry, I just need to get this off my chest.

 

[cindersoot]

Here's something new to discuss.

From TG's posts -


there was a guy got out of his vehicle and started walking at the depot then i seen, when i returned he left as i did. there was two people fishing on north west corner of the lake . a vehicle pulled in as i was leaving the parking lot of the lake then a few cars on laff that about it

Was this the perp?

Wow, he is very observative. :what::waitasec::truce:

 

[SapphireSteel]

Perhaps since they have already investigated the usual suspects (parents, family, local SO, tips called in etc) and no arrest have been made, it is an unusual suspect. This to me would mean someone that acted with impulse and doesn't fit the usual profiles making them harder to catch I would guess.

There are many many unsolved cases where there is a person of interest or a suspect, they are just never officially named or charged.

Hailey Dunn springs to mind, and JonBenet and a million other missing person cases where the husband is suspected but never named or charged.

Josh Powell.

Blind Freddy could see what happened to Susan, yet he remained untouched and went on to murder their boys.

:sigh:

 

[threecrazykids]

Here's something new to discuss.

From TG's posts -


there was a guy got out of his vehicle and started walking at the depot then i seen, when i returned he left as i did. there was two people fishing on north west corner of the lake . a vehicle pulled in as i was leaving the parking lot of the lake then a few cars on laff that about it

Was this the perp?

What are the odds that someone arrived at the depot at exactly the same time he did...he takes off cycling, while they were WALKING, and they returned to the depot at the EXACT same time he did?
Sounds more to me like he's trying cover a point that he has someone who apparently saw him come AND leave the depot so people shouldn't suspect him as being involved, otherwise that person would have seen him leave with the girls.

I truly appreciate the posts he's made, but nothing in his (or his daughter's) posts really cleared up anything for me personally.

That was the main intent (or so they said) of them joining was to ask away to clear up any questions so he could stop being harrassed.

Why, when we had Mr. G himself on here answering all our questions are we still questioning him and his sighting? For me, the big questions can't be answered, or weren't.

He is just one player in what appears to be the perfect storm of opportunity or planning.

 

[Marilynilpa]

I'm still bewildered on why the community isn't demanding answers. On all the cases I have seen where children are murdered, the community is so involved, not in gazebos and cutie stuff, but involved in wanting justice. I don't understand the silence, I don't understand why this isn't shouted from the roof tops everyday. Two little girls were abducted than murdered, and the killer is out there! If I had young children or tweens, I would be so afraid to let them out of my sight. I'm sorry, I just need to get this off my chest.

cinder, do you think some people in the community believe the abduction and murders of the girls is related somehow to family drug issues or connections? I'm not making accusations, I'm just wondering about the perception within the community.

If a lot of people are convinced this is related somehow to the family, that might explain why there isn't more of an outcry from the public to catch a killer who is still at large. :waitasec:

 

[BunnyHop]

I think so too. But if it is a mile would go all the way to lafayette st? IDK

Is this fact or rumor?
Is there a link? lease:

 

[Marilynilpa]

He is a witness.

I don't understand the sarcasm?

Maybe you are more observant than most folks, but if it were me biking around the lake I don't know if I could recall who I saw on my bike route on a specific day. If someone asked me to think back, I'd be able to say I saw two fishermen and a man in a parking lot but I wouldn't be able to swear I saw them on July 13th, as opposed to the day before or the day after.

Poeple tend to notice things that stand out, but not things that seem normal such as people fishing at a lake. JMO

So maybe TG is unusually observant, or maybe I just have extremely poor recall.

 

[shoregirl]

I'm still bewildered on why the community isn't demanding answers. On all the cases I have seen where children are murdered, the community is so involved, not in gazebos and cutie stuff, but involved in wanting justice. I don't understand the silence, I don't understand why this isn't shouted from the roof tops everyday. Two little girls were abducted than murdered, and the killer is out there! If I had young children or tweens, I would be so afraid to let them out of my sight. I'm sorry, I just need to get this off my chest.

I remember locals posting on various boards that they were affected. Didn't feel as safe, locked their doors, put more restrictions on their children etc. I am not sure what an outcry of the populace would like. Rallys? Petetions? The bodies have been recently found which is some progress in the case, albeit without much to do with investigation. In general it is very difficult to keep a group of people in engaged and avoid the apathy that comes afterwhile and the media all goes home. After awhile everyone goes on with their lives. The families are keeping it in the media, whether or not you agree with their venue. I just don't see that a steady drum beat from the town is possible or would be helpful. What aren't they doing that you think they should be doing?

 

[cindersoot]

I remember locals posting on various boards that they were affected. Didn't feel as safe, locked their doors, put more restrictions on their children etc. I am not sure what an outcry of the populace would like. Rallys? Petetions? The bodies have been recently found which is some progress in the case, albeit without much to do with investigation. In general it is very difficult to keep a group of people in engaged and avoid the apathy that comes afterwhile and the media all goes home. After awhile everyone goes on with their lives. The families are keeping it in the media, whether or not you agree with their venue. I just don't see that a steady drum beat from the town is possible or would be helpful. What aren't they doing that you think they should be doing?

It simply was my opinion.

 

[threecrazykids]

Here's something new to discuss.

From TG's posts -


there was a guy got out of his vehicle and started walking at the depot then i seen, when i returned he left as i did. there was two people fishing on north west corner of the lake . a vehicle pulled in as i was leaving the parking lot of the lake then a few cars on laff that about it

Was this the perp?

Maybe you are more observant than most folks, but if it were me biking around the lake I don't know if I could recall who I saw on my bike route on a specific day. If someone asked me to think back, I'd be able to say I saw two fishermen and a man in a parking lot but I wouldn't be able to swear I saw them on July 13th, as opposed to the day before or the day after.

Poeple tend to notice things that stand out, but not things that seem normal such as people fishing at a lake. JMO

So maybe TG is unusually observant, or maybe I just have extremely poor recall.

there was a guy got out of his vehicle and started walking at the depot then i seen, when i returned he left as i did. there was two people fishing on north west corner of the lake . a vehicle pulled in as i was leaving the parking lot of the lake [/B]

There was "a guy". What kind of guy?

White? Black? Tall? Short? Old? Young? What was he wearing? What was he driving? Did you see which way he was walking? Did he have a pet with him? Did he have any type of cross body or hip bag or anything he could have carried a weapon in?

He arrived and left the depot at the exact same time? What time did you arrive and leave the depot? This person could possibly provide pertinent info.

2 people fishing on the NW corner of the lake? Same questions as above, just eliminate the part about the vehicle.

A vehicle pulled in as he was leaving? What kind of vehicle?

Even if the color/type of vehicle was seen leaving, maybe it was caught on CCTV enough to get the license plate and could be asked if they saw the girls since they were at the park BEFORE Mr. G left.

If only he was able to provide more detail, maybe there would be other people who could be questioned to THEIR whereabouts during that time. lease:

 

[shoregirl]

It simply was my opinion.

Many are of the same opinion. I personally believe that LE is doing all they can do. I think they are taking personally because there are children involved. The lack of any real angst and the seemingly "move on with our lives" attitude of the families is not helping with the perception that LE is "allowing" the case to grow cold. As was just posted here, there are many cases where they know who it is and just can't get enough evidence to prove it. If that is true in this case, I have hit my head against the wall trying to figure out who that would be. There is not an obvious suspect that jumps out at me. Do you have a suspect?