IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #32

[georger]

I've wondered the same... and yet, IIRC, we've seen estimates here in the past which imply it can take weeks to make a DNA determination... gads I hope not...

Jumping off Cinder's post:

On the subj of (#1) if they have perp DNA at 7bridges and (#2) if the said perp turns out to be the pigman... then why the h*ll didn't the pigman pop-up on DNA database search?!?

On that subj, here's my question: Is it possible that the perp DNA at 7bridges was so degraded by time and/or in such a small amt that the best the techs could do is employ that "multiply results thingy" which they use?

Is it possible that the "multiply results thingy" wasn't strong enough to trigger a match in DNA database???

O/T and ETA: I'm too tired to finish my thoughts... come on peeps, please somebody understand where I was headed, which has to to with "now that they have a strong DNA profile" for comparison...

My guess is there is no 'perp' dna involved/found at 7-Bridges or anywhere else. Partial or otherwise. Nada.

Any news report no matter how 'beyond reproach' that mentions dna int his case is irresponsible speculation if not based on something official that has come from an official source.

I 'nailed' one tv reporter for engaging in such 'speculation' and she did not
take it well. She refused to issue a retraction under the claim: "we know
more than you do"!

 

[Sin City]

Georger, I do believe that you are going to be correct in the case of lack of DNA (perp) in L & E murders. I keep talking myself into a possible miracle that there was DNA left behind, but based on science this is very unlikely. Also, if LE had DNA they could be checking it against POIs.

My guess is there is no 'perp' dna involved/found at 7-Bridges or anywhere else. Partial or otherwise. Nada.

Any news report no matter how 'beyond reproach' that mentions dna int his case is irresponsible speculation if not based on something official that has come from an official source.

I 'nailed' one tv reporter for engaging in such 'speculation' and she did not
take it well. She refused to issue a retraction under the claim: "we know
more than you do"!

 

[georger]

Georger, I do believe that you are going to be correct in the case of lack of DNA (perp) in L & E murders. I keep talking myself into a possible miracle that there was DNA left behind, but based on science this is very unlikely. Also, if LE had DNA they could be checking it against POIs.

I do have to wonder what LE did with the girl's bikes. Took prints? But I
doubt they swabbed those bikes for dna. My guess is they did nothing with
the bikes ... just picked them up and hauled them in.

Any forensic evidence that flagged for Klunder would have had the FBI or
State LE at his door months ago.

But they are definitely looking at Klunder now.

We all wish we could have yesterday all over, to do again a little bit differently . . .

 

[SapphireSteel]

I think they did get DNA.

They just didn't get any DNA that can't be explained away easily.

:twocents:

 

[chelsea6]

I think they did get DNA.

They just didn't get any DNA that can't be explained away easily.

:twocents:

This is what I am thinking. Way back when I posted what an Evansdale friend of mine that is close friends with Evansdale LE said, was that one of them confided to him that they have all kinds of evidence they just need the person that did it.

 

[Bootsctr]

O/T: Regarding the 2 boys taken today.
Amber Alert CANCELLED - Found Safe
http://www.ktiv.com/story/22503314/...napping-of-two-children-from-monona-county-ia

Praise the Lord! I wish meth never existed! I am so glad those two precious boys are safe and sound.

 

[Bootsctr]

My guess is there is no 'perp' dna involved/found at 7-Bridges or anywhere else. Partial or otherwise. Nada.

Any news report no matter how 'beyond reproach' that mentions dna int his case is irresponsible speculation if not based on something official that has come from an official source.

I 'nailed' one tv reporter for engaging in such 'speculation' and she did not
take it well. She refused to issue a retraction under the claim: "we know
more than you do"!

Get'em georger. People do need to be held accountable for making irresponsible claims and speculation. That only leads to more heartbreak and pain for the families. . . and for us too! I mean I almost feel like we're family. We certainly care and we've been here since the beginning. We don't deserve to be jerked around like fools. We want answers for L&L!

 

[Bootsctr]

Thank you so much!!!! I was just looking on here to see if or where I could post about these little boys. Just heard the amber alert on the radio. Let me know if you get a link up please.
Also, does anyone know if they caught the guy who abducted and murdered these two young girls?

Welcome back GiaGreen! We are awaiting news, which I expect may never come, but that is only my opinion, if Michael Klunder the abductor of Kathlynn Shepard and D in Dayton may have been involved in Lyric's and Elizabeth's abduction and murder. We have been hopeful there might be DNA to link to the killer, but that hope is greatly diminished as we are in our second week of waiting to hear something regarding Klunder and his possible involvement in the girls' case. I am afraid the girls' case may never be solved and that breaks my heart.

 

[shoregirl]

I do have to wonder what LE did with the girl's bikes. Took prints? But I
doubt they swabbed those bikes for dna. My guess is they did nothing with
the bikes ... just picked them up and hauled them in.

Any forensic evidence that flagged for Klunder would have had the FBI or
State LE at his door months ago.

But they are definitely looking at Klunder now.

We all wish we could have yesterday all over, to do again a little bit differently . . .

Although it may be displaced, I have more faith in LE than that. Oftentimes when a case goes unsolved for very long LE is blamed for not properly handling the crime scene. Remember there are so many cases that are cold and 20 some years later opened and resubmitted and the case is solved. Only because the person who left the DNA has it on file. I think they have DNA. Although I suppose it is possible that the perp never touched the bikes. I have always believed in a stranger abduction, a crime of convenience. Someone like Kunkler, prowling parks and lakes in the summertime. It is sickening to realize how easily children will go with someone.

 

[cindersoot]

Still nothing? Why don't they know by now?

 

[palaminodee]

Still nothing? Why don't they know by now?

good question...
does anyone know if family members DNA would be checked in a situation like this?
or would it be purely voluntary?
those family members that have been in jail; would their DNA be on record?

If they actually gathered DNA from the girls; would you think family members would be cleared of the crime and noted to the public??

 

[iamnotagolem]

good question...
does anyone know if family members DNA would be checked in a situation like this?
or would it be purely voluntary?
those family members that have been in jail; would their DNA be on record?

If they actually gathered DNA from the girls; would you think family members would be cleared of the crime and noted to the public??

How would they clear family members? Finding familial DNA on the girls would not stand out as suspicious. I'm sure there is family DNA on the girls but that doesn't really prove anything, which is why it's über frustrating when the family is suspected and never cleared by LE.

 

[RNER]

How would they clear family members? Finding familial DNA on the girls would not stand out as suspicious. I'm sure there is family DNA on the girls but that doesn't really prove anything, which is why it's über frustrating when the family is suspected and never cleared by LE.

Agree...

Throw in DNA from a friend or acquaintance that can show reasons why their DNA would be found on or near the girls, or in and around the crime scene, and you have nothing proven with DNA. Obviously, DNA from a stranger would be more indicative of foul play and make it easier to associate a perp with the crime (providing they are in the database or connected to another crime).

IMOO-I think LE has DNA...whether it is from a family member, friend, acquaintance, or stranger demonstrates how effective it is and the time it takes in helping to solve the case!

 

[SapphireSteel]

All the discovery of DNA proves is that DNA is there.

If you're lucky you can identify who's DNA it is, but even then, there are a million different ways it could have gotten there - assuming we are talking about touch DNA and not that left by say, semen.

It doesn't prove guilt, unfortunately. It also doesn't prove when the DNA actually got there, or how.

 

[palaminodee]

All the discovery of DNA proves is that DNA is there.

If you're lucky you can identify who's DNA it is, but even then, there are a million different ways it could have gotten there - assuming we are talking about touch DNA and not that left by say, semen.

It doesn't prove guilt, unfortunately. It also doesn't prove when the DNA actually got there, or how.

I didn't know whether or not a family's DNA is too close to be able to identify which member of the family it came from or not?

For example purposes only; (not accusing anyone); is an aunt, uncle or cousins' DNA unique enough to identify from the one of the girls DNA?

 

[SpringThyme]

I didn't know whether or not a family's DNA is too close to be able to identify which member of the family it came from or not?

For example purposes only; (not accusing anyone); is an aunt, uncle or cousins' DNA unique enough to identify from the one of the girls DNA?

Not sure if I understand your question, but only identical twins have the exact same DNA. You would be able to match any one else's DNA to the person it belongs to if you have their own sample to compare it to. I think even without such a sample, you could tell if someone's DNA was from a parent, grandparent, or sibling by comparing it to the victim's DNA. I believe would also be able to tell if it belongs to a family member, in general.

 

[Squeeze]

Not sure if I understand your question, but only identical twins have the exact same DNA. You would be able to match any one else's DNA to the person it belongs to if you have their own sample to compare it to. I think even without such a sample, you could tell if someone's DNA was from a parent, grandparent, or sibling by comparing it to the victim's DNA. I believe would also be able to tell if it belongs to a family member, in general.

I guess I thought that siblings had the same DNA.

 

[georger]

I didn't know whether or not a family's DNA is too close to be able to identify which member of the family it came from or not?

For example purposes only; (not accusing anyone); is an aunt, uncle or cousins' DNA unique enough to identify from the one of the girls DNA?

Close relatives are all genetically different - easily detectable. For example, if you take a
case where siblings are very close genetically at 99.95% identical, that still leaves 0.05%
possible difference. Since there are 6 billion bases, a 0.05% difference translates into 3 million
base possibilities of genetic difference, at minimum - just between very close siblings! This is
an example of where raw numbers translate into difference which is detectable. When you
factor in environmental factors, the opportunity for difference expands geometrically.

Aunts, uncles, etc are even further apart, due mainly to the fact there are more genetic
contributors (relatives and non relatives) involved.

Identical twins are often cited as being genetically identical. They are in fact not, as a
practical matter, and once again environmental factors play a role even inside the woomb
and the genetic differences are detectable. Their finger prints are not identical. See this:
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=identical-twins-genes-are-not-identical

In any event, there is no credible report of dna or mtdna playing any role in this case.

 

[Ommmm]

It's been a week... waiting, waiting...

 

[Just Pat 22]

ot my brothers have different DNA than I Sisters and Brothers have the same DNA only it has a different title to it . We were tested for my Missing sister Micondial ? not sure of the spelling
:blushing::blushing: