IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #32

[georger]

ot my brothers have different DNA than I Sisters and Brothers have the same DNA only it has a different title to it . We were tested for my Missing sister Micondial ? not sure of the spelling
:blushing::blushing:

Who did the testing, if I may ask? Did you take the Nat Geo test?

Is your sister's name: Mitochondrial ?

 

[georger]

It's been a week... waiting, waiting...

I hear that! :banghead::banghead:

 

[SapphireSteel]

I didn't know whether or not a family's DNA is too close to be able to identify which member of the family it came from or not?

For example purposes only; (not accusing anyone); is an aunt, uncle or cousins' DNA unique enough to identify from the one of the girls DNA?

It depends.

I know that in the case of madeleine mccann, they found dna but it wasnt enough to tell if it belonged to her or a sibling.

 

[georger]

It depends.

I know that in the case of madeleine mccann, they found dna but it wasnt enough to tell if it belonged to her or a sibling.

It had to do with the few cells in the LCN DNA (low count number) test itself. They couldn't
even prove the dna sample collected from a vehicle belonged to McCann let alone some other
person, by random chance. One of the scientists involved in the case said 19 markers found in
the LCN test matched 19 of his markers! (using euro codis-23 system). It became a statistical
conundrum.

Later, another better McCann sample was tested against another girl suspected of being
McCann. The tests were a positive negative.

See: British dna sample under Disappearance of Madeleine McCann - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

and:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...and-girl-DNA-sample-prove-missing-Maddie.html

 

[Just Pat 22]

Who did the testing, if I may ask? Did you take the Nat Geo test?

Is your sister's name: Mitochondrial ?

My Sister's name is is Madeline sorry about the mix up just tired I guess.

Mitro DnA from brother's V/s Sister's are different . We waited from September till Aug of the following year 2010 - 2011 . The DNA was swabbed by a local Police Detective that work's with Missing Person's . The Police where each of my Brother's live swabbed for their DNA . I believe it was sent to Texas where that is all they do is test the DNA. Results take a long time . DNA was taken from King Tut's bones and they actually got a sample . I just hope our Girl's get the Justice they deserve .RIP LYRIC AND LIZZIE

 

[alliemay]

Its a shame that they can't search the other pits because of the expense.

"But investigators have opted thus far not to drain other manure pits because of the expense and complicated logistics involved, Kietzman said."

Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/news/crime/ar...wa-teen-at-hog-lots-4553741.php#ixzz2VRzgg12o

 

[Bootsctr]

Its a shame that they can't search the other pits because of the expense.

"But investigators have opted thus far not to drain other manure pits because of the expense and complicated logistics involved, Kietzman said."

Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/news/crime/ar...wa-teen-at-hog-lots-4553741.php#ixzz2VRzgg12o

That is a real shame! I know they are checking the manure pits at the hog lots that had a family connection through the father-in-law, but I wonder if MK had access to other hog lots not connected to the family that he might have put Kathlynn so as not to draw attention to this family if he had not killed himself and gotten away with it (so glad that he did NOT and that D escaped his evil grasp)!!!!!! I just think he knew where he was going to put the bodies AND if he was involved with L&L I think he was surprised that their bodies were found after only five months. I think he counted, if it was Klunder, on the bodies not being found. With that in mind, he figured with this next abduction he might leave NO TRACE of the bodies. Hard to think about. He was a gruesome character though.

ETA: I know Klunder is more than likely not the killer of L&L; however, he did have 19 years to plan his first abduction, murder and where he was going to dispose of bodies. L&L's abduction just seems so well planned and this killer certainly had time to plan although the abduction itself was probably spontaneous. I don't think L&L were preselected, but who knows? It's a guessing game for sure!

 

[Aymstriss]

http://wcfcourier.com/news/local/io...cle_be2cc164-cecd-11e2-849b-001a4bcf887a.html


...more waiting...

 

[watcher9]

If a pig dies in the confinement house, what do they do with the carcass?
Do they have an incinerator? A backhoe to bury it?

 

[Dr. Know?]

Way more than you ever want to know about pig confinements & disposal of pigs. gah

http://www.animallaw.info/articles/ddusiowahogfarming.htm

 

[SapphireSteel]

It had to do with the few cells in the LCN DNA (low count number) test itself. They couldn't
even prove the dna sample collected from a vehicle belonged to McCann let alone some other
person, by random chance. One of the scientists involved in the case said 19 markers found in
the LCN test matched 19 of his markers! (using euro codis-23 system). It became a statistical
conundrum.

Later, another better McCann sample was tested against another girl suspected of being
McCann. The tests were a positive negative.

See: British dna sample under Disappearance of Madeleine McCann - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

and:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...and-girl-DNA-sample-prove-missing-Maddie.html

That case is a :worms:

For the purposes of Lizzie and Lyric - if Klunder's DNA had've turned up on either them or the bikes, game over. Undeniable proof he was there.

If the DNA is say, a family friend, that proves nothing at all.

If the DNA is low copy, it could be familial, so also proves nothing at all.

 

[threecrazykids]

http://wcfcourier.com/news/local/io...cle_be2cc164-cecd-11e2-849b-001a4bcf887a.html


...more waiting...

I don't think this surprises anyone (the fact that they aren't releasing info).

Good to know that they say he "misspoke" when he said they were hoping to release something this week, but I don't think anyone who's spent even 10 minutes following this case really expected they'd release something of substance.

It's ALMOST to the point of laughable how pathetic it's become - if I'm being completely honest.

Transparency is LE's worst nightmare in this case...it's only going to get worse I think.

 

[chelsea6]

The LE must know what vehicles Klunder owned at the time of E&L's deaths. They would be able to match tire treads if the tires are still on. It was very dry out during that period and 7 bridges wasn't well traveled. The LE could look for blood samples in those vehicles. If the LE captured any deer cam images see if it has Klunder's image.

 

[Bootsctr]

The LE must know what vehicles Klunder owned at the time of E&L's deaths. They would be able to match tire treads if the tires are still on. It was very dry out during that period and 7 bridges wasn't well traveled. The LE could look for blood samples in those vehicles. If the LE captured any deer cam images see if it has Klunder's image.

This is what I am praying for. . .

I watched an episode of "The New Detectives" last night, episode 98, Lethal Encounter, first aired 03/25/2003. The statement at the very end of the episode was rather poignant and I can only hope Black Hawk investigators are committed to bringing L&L's killer to justice:

"When a killer and a victim share no personal history, detectives can find themselves working in the dark, but for investigators committed to finding justice, no piece of evidence is too small. Today, forensic science can uncover a murder and bring to light evidence of a lethal encounter."

 

[Bootsctr]

I don't think this surprises anyone (the fact that they aren't releasing info).

Good to know that they say he "misspoke" when he said they were hoping to release something this week, but I don't think anyone who's spent even 10 minutes following this case really expected they'd release something of substance.

It's ALMOST to the point of laughable how pathetic it's become - if I'm being completely honest.

Transparency is LE's worst nightmare in this case...it's only going to get worse I think.

Nope, didn't surprise me! My mouth didn't drop open and my eyes didn't pop out of my head! Really, they expected to be able to release something after only a week from a guy whose only goal in life was to commit evil acts and cover his tracks? Come'on! Give us a break and some credit for being smarter than believing LE would find a link in a week. This guy knew how to slide under the radar. Thanks to a brave 12 y/o his gig is up; otherwise, we might still be scratching our heads as to what happened to Kathlynn and D. I do hope they are taking the time NOW that they realize what kind of monster they are dealing with to cross all their T's and dot all the freakin' I's.

 

[Snowbunny]

http://wcfcourier.com/news/local/io...cle_be2cc164-cecd-11e2-849b-001a4bcf887a.html

Quote:

Meyers said investigators also continue to look into whether Klunder was responsible for the kidnapping and slaying of two cousins last year in Evansdale, but he cautioned that it could take time to complete the lab testing, interviews and other work needed to make a determination. He and Black Hawk County Sheriff Tony Thompson both said the Evansdale police chief misspoke when he said investigators hoped to have an announcement this week.

 

[Bootsctr]

"“We're going all the way through it line by line and making sure that any element that we can evaluate for any correlation is being executed,” he (Gerard Meyers, assistant director of the Division of Criminal Investigation) said. “It will continue until we have a firm determination as to whether or not there is any correlation.”

http://wcfcourier.com/news/local/io...cle_be2cc164-cecd-11e2-849b-001a4bcf887a.html

Okay Mr. Gerard (we probably ought to remember this name), we're going to hold you to "going all the way through it line by line" because Elizabeth and Lyric deserve some answers.

 

[Bootsctr]

If a pig dies in the confinement house, what do they do with the carcass?
Do they have an incinerator? A backhoe to bury it?

According to the Animal Legal and Historical Center, "Large confinement operations dispose of dead hogs in two primary ways, either through rendering or land disposal including burial and composting of the carcasses. Because rendering facilities have become scarce, operators have turned to on-site disposal methods."

This makes me think that since rendering facilities have become scarce Klunder did not have access to a rendering facility please. So basically dead pigs have to be buried or composted. Burial regulations are very specific. They must be buried at least 100 feet from any private well; 200 feet from any public well; 50 feet from adjacent property line; 500 feet from a residence and more than 100 feet from stream, lake or pond. You can only bury up to 44 pigs an acre per year (good grief! I hope no one is losing more hogs than that - even 44 sounds like too many!). Burial pits cannot be more than 6 feet deep and have to be 2 feet above the highest groundwater elevation. You gotta cover the dead pigs with at least 6 inches of dirt, but you can leave the burial pit open until it "has reached its maximal carcass capacity." The carcasses have to be covered with at least 30 inches of soil and the animal can only be buried "on the property from which they originated."

So did pigman bury his dead pigs, compost his dead pigs or render his dead pigs???? If you compost you turn the compost with your tractor. But, would he have had a backhoe to dig burial pits for his dead pigs? Maybe his tractor had an attachment for digging???

Also of note: "The DNR requires that composting sites be built on all-weather surfaces such as concrete. Additionally, composting must be done in a manner where there is no release of run-off and odor and flies need to be controlled." What would be used to control odor? Lye?

 

[Bootsctr]

We covered all this.

You gave two most excellent links regarding hog disposal BunnyHop! :blowkiss: :tyou: I believe Texas is in the midst of some legal battle regarding the humane treatment of pigs right now. Saw a headline the other day, but didn't investigate it. Very interesting for sure! :seeya:

 

[SapphireSteel]

Yuck. Not really sure what hog disposal has to do with L&L.

Klunder is not the perp. For a start he's way too disorganised and impulsive, secondly we would never have found the girls.

Like poor little Kathlynn.

The really scary thing is there's more than one double child abductor roaming Iowa unseen by the authorities. Not quite sure how this happens as I believe whoever took the girls was an experienced felon with a record of incarceration.

I blame meth and obviously a very poor information flow within agencies. It's the 21st century, there is no excuse for this. I have long suspected interagency sniping and miscommunication was a factor in this mess.